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See 6 O'clock position on this wheel bearing race (right term?)
https://www.brickboard.com/IMAGELIB/volvopic.htm?js_link=1&id=13385
1988 Volvo 240 DL with about 300k and poor maintenance history. I repacked my wheel bearings less than 1k miles ago and did not see any damage on the wheel bearing race, but I may not have really looked at it. However, I've been hearing a slight rumbling.
On removing the driver's front hub, I noticed gouging at the 6 O'clock position, as shown this photo. I can feel the rough edges on the gouging when I move my finger across it.
The inner and outer bearings have no blemishes, but the inner bearing was seized on the axle.
I have a spare hub that I will install. Although I don't see any damage to the wheel bearings that were on the damaged hub, out of abundance of caution, I'm not going to reuse them.
The only unusual event that happened within the past 1k was my hitting a curb at about 5 mph on that front driver's side, but the car has been fine since then and I didn't see any damage to the tire or suspension.
What caused this gouge?
Are the solid ring-type bearings tapered or pressed in?
Thanks
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I was at the junkyard today looking for parts for the 240 and my Toyota.
My 1988 Volvo has front hubs with tapering where it connects to the base of the spindle that looks like this (bottom with the Volvo label):
https://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images_products_slideshow/fullsize_5893.jpg
Today, I saw a 1992 240 with a front hub that has a wider rear that looks like gears, like at the bottom of this image:
https://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images_products_slideshow/fullsize_6297.jpg
The outer and innner wheel bearings are the same, but are these hubs interchangeable? Also, I assume that there is an advantage to the design for the 1992 front hub; is there an advantage to the 1992 model?
I noticed that a FWD Toyota had a rear outer bearing race attached to the drum with several prominent dark lines that ran perpendicular to the long axis of the race. This was present only on one side
I thought about uploading the photo on the Brickboard Gallery, but it's from a Toyota, so I don't think it's appropriate to do so.
I also didn't see any similar race damage on Google Images to provide a link here.
Thanks
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Hi,
I can see what you are talking about.
The hub with a the gear look-a-like is for the ABS system. A sensor picks up on the change of metal density when it spins.
As far as interchangeable of bearings I would say look up the bearing for both cars and see if the part numbers stay the same between the two car years.
I don’t see why they shouldn’t?
It’s like you never know why, two engineers working in the same office, will have one chair that squeaks and another engineers chair that doesn’t?
It’s just the way it goes, I guess! (:)
Phil
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Hi,
That gouge has another name. It's called Spalding! Mechanical stresses on the metal grain structure that turns into surface fatigue.
The entire bearing set is bad or in looking at that spot in the race, it earned the term "Its shot all right!" You don't have to be "racist" to see what went on there! (:)
Lack of maintenance is the best answer.
Lack of lubrication is on the top of the list.
Lack of proper preloading to seat the bearings to the axles shoulders is another.
Not backing off that preload setting is usually what happens. The bearings need to be "up and touching with a very lite loading. Enough to keep the moving parts snug enough for no play as the assembly grows when it gets warmed by the brakes!
My preferred method is ...
To use a foot pound and a inch pound torque wrench to get defined amounts.
The manual says 25 ft lbs and then I use 25 inch pounds because it's easy to remember.
Just do not exceed the 25 inches. All while rotating the wheel.
It seems to do good for me!
Your option to go round and round or back and forth.(:) the wheel just loves it either way! (:)
Phil
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Thanks.
Any idea why just that one spot was affected?
On the opposite side, there are three linear scratches that are perpendicular to the wheel rotation and point at me. I do not feel gouging, so I'm going to take a chance and leave them be - for now.
I have a one-part nut/washer. Bentley p. 770-4 says 13 +/- 4 in-lbs. I don't see your 25 ft-lbs or 25 in-lbs.
Also, it looks like 27 mm and 1-1/16 sockets fit. Normally, I would think that metric is correct, but the lug nuts on my Toyota are 13/16" (21mm stripped the lug nuts). Anyone know for sure?
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Hi,
Oh man I wish you would listen to yourself saying you will use bad bearings!
Why do the job three times!
If you can actually see any defect in a bearing surface you don't want to reuse that bearing.
It's an indicator of things are not right in there.
It's like, if you looked across a nice blue smooth swimming lake that has a surface that looked like glass on a nice calm and quiet day!
But then all of a sudden there was a hump of tiny ripples coming your way!
Would you want to jump in and bet there nothing coming to eat you?
It might something from somebody's discarded tropical fish bowl!
Just maybe, their not pirañas but some hungry gold fish looking for their hand out!
The lines you see or rumblings you heard are all a warnings that you are messing with hardened steel that nearly as hard as glass.
You said earlier, that one bearings inner race, it probably had the rollers, was actually frozen on the back end of the spindle.
I'm betting the rollers are a straw colored brown to bluish!
Would you like to take a guess to how hot disc brakes can get?
I can't think of a better place for the heat to accumulate.
What if, it had not been on the thickest end? The little bearing on the other end, you know, that has the threaded nut? The whole thing could just snap off and the wheel is then rolling off towards the unimaginable!
But don't worry, you will be sitting there, leaning, with a puzzled look?
Going, it's still under the fender, oh, lucky me!
Do you feel lucky, twice?
As far as the Bently manual, I'm thinking you must know more of what's in there than I do!
I don't claim to know page numbers and paragraphs.
That 14 inch pound specification sounds good if it means up and touching and no play.
Most of the time with cars, they just said, preload and back off two nut slots, shake top to bottom and pin it!
Over the years I have read my issue of manuals and the part on preloading bearings varies with each size.
I have worked with professional assemblers setting up bearings with diameters of 16" X 24" X 10" wide and they follow the manufactures requirements to the letter!
The rule of thumb back in the 70's, the cost for that size bearing was a thousand dollars an inch!
I.D. or O.D., I don't know which, but it was not cheap and it got its due respect!
Heck back then that was probably a years wages. I know some rough castings, before machining, that held bearings like that, cost $36,000.
I couldn't worry about that, just kept my mind on making it to print!
We didn't talk about the, or else!
It's your car and your life, what's it worth?
Phil
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Thanks, Phil and Art.
As mentioned in my original post, on the driver's front I installed a back-up hub and wheel bearings that don't have any visible gouging. I don't have a back-up for the passenger's side. Using a torque wrench last night, I found that my install of the castellated nut/washer assembly on both front wheels was just a little too tight, so I adjusted it.
I just test-drove the car about a mile and there's no rumbling.
I referenced the Bentley page number, because others on this bulletin board in the past asked me to.
Just to be clear, on the driver's side, I had great difficulty removing the hub. When I did, the inner roller wheel bearing stayed on the shaft and was very hard to remove. I suspect that the front wheel bearings haven't been repacked for many years prior to my buying this car a few months back. Would that failed maintenance completely explain why the innner roller bearing seized on the shaft?
I didn't see this problem, but on other wheel bearing races (i.e. without the rollers), I have seen fine lines that run in a circle parallel to the tire. If I can't feel gouging in those lines, should I still replace the races?
A junkyard hub/bearing set cost just a little less than FCP Euro wheel bearing kit:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-wheel-bearing-kit-fag-271391
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-wheel-bearing-kit-front-240-242-244-245-260-262-264-265-1#reviews
These kits are supposedly OEM, but are they high quality? Are wheel bearings something that need regular replacement, or with proper maintenance do they tend to last the life of the car? In other words, should I get a junkyard hub that has intact bearings or buy the rebuild kit?
Also, Bentley pp. 770-2 to 770-3 says to use a press tool or brass drift. How do you (including other members of the bulletin board) change out bearing races?
Thanks
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Hi,
I reread your original post and I'm curious if there was any damage to the spindle after you freed up the seized bearing ? Was there rust or evidence of heating ? I've never seen that.
If this car is new to you, it might be a good idea to check out your rear bearings before too long.
It's confusing when every source seems to have a different tightening procedure.
I think they all end up at the same place, but this video might give you some insights on where that place is, and why it's important to get there.
https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/hubs-bearings/proper-tapered-roller-bearings-installation-hub-assembly/
Peter
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Thanks. I read both of your posts.
When I removed them, the inner wheel bearing and spindle had no signs of damage; I saved the inner wheel bearing and checked it again - no damage and it's symmetrical. Upon installing replacement hub, wheel bearings and races, the wheel turns silently and, when driving, the intermittent humming I heard earlier completely disappeared.
As mentioned in an earlier post, I had trouble removing the rotor/hub assembly off of the spindle, so I wonder if the inner bearing and seal came loose when I was struggling to remove it. However, the inner bearing came off of the spindle with great difficulty despite my centering and re-centering it on the spindle several times. The other side's hub came off easily and the inner bearing stayed inside the hub.
I searched Amazon for Timken 17 and 16 wheel bearings but could not find them. Instead, National A17 and A16 came up. Do you have alternative part numbers for the Timkens?
Based upon the Timken video, it looks like my driver's side outer wheel bearing race had damage due to the adjusting nut being too loose. I'm baffled as to why the outer race had damage, but the bearings and inner race had not blemishes.
A month back, I checked the rear wheel bearings and they were fine. I repacked the bearings. I'm hoping those don't go out, because I don't have the tools to replace the bearings (plus, the spindle/axle is heavy and bulky).
How often do you do brake jobs?
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Hi 1908,
The Timken bearings I mentioned are available on EBay. The National #'s cross with the Timkens. They'll work. National is a brand of Federal Mogul and I think they just rebrand Timken bearings.
All bearing manufactures have catalogues available on line. You can search by application or dimensions.
The outer bearings are subject to a greater stress than the inner and usually fail first. It's your call, but I think it's a false economy to not replace both bearings at the point you're at.
Volvo recommends adjusting the bearings every 30K, but I can find no recommended interval for repacking. My pads last longer, but I try to at least inspect, clean, and lubricate my brakes at 30K or 3 years. I usually repack at that time.
Good luck,
Peter
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Thanks.
I replaced inner and outer bearings and races
I asked about the outer only to understand better what had happened. Thanks for clarifying why.
What brand and model of wheel bearing grease do you use?
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Hi 19,
I'm glad to hear that you changed them both. Your hubs should be good for a long while. Those old bearings might be original to the car.
You may know this. Your bearings don't have to show visible signs of spalling or scratches to be worn out. The rollers and race begin to wear away from the first turn, and may still retain their polish through their life. At some point this wear allows the rollers to move around in the cage, accelerating the wear and making noise and vibrations. This is especially true with ball bearings which are not adjustable but it also applies to tapered rollers.
When Timken suggests replacement at 100k, it doesn't mean they won't roll for 300k. It means that by testing, they've found something they don't like at 100k plus a margin of safety. The safety factor could be as high as 50% to allow for extreme conditions. I'm guessing.
One way to evaluate a bearing is to clean it of all grease and hold the race with your fingers, elbow bent and fingers pointing up. Put the bearing into the race and spin it. You'll get feedback from the sound and the feeling in your fingers. For some people that's enough, but it's better if you have a clean new bearing to compare it with. Another test is to compare the looseness of the rollers in the cages of the new and old bearings.
I'd be happy to endorse STA LUBE EXTREME PRESSURE MOLY-GRAPH MULTI PURPOSE GREASE. Moly-graph refers to molybdenum disulphide and graphite, two solid lubricants. There's a bit of a premium on it but it's good stuff. I think I got it at NAPA last time, 14 oz. can, part# SL 3147.
Peter
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Thanks.
Maybe synthetics are over-hyped, so I'm wondering how Valvoline SynPower Synthetic Automotive Grease would compare to your STA LUBE EXTREME PRESSURE MOLY-GRAPH MULTI PURPOSE GREASE in the wheel bearings?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GAN3I0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Hi,
You can learn more about spalling and galling if you search these terms on Wikipedia. For practical purposes it simply means the bearing is done.
Some people refer to the parts as cup and cone, others say race and bearing. No matter what you call them, or what they look like, always replace these parts as a set.
Both SKF and FAG that you see at FCP have good reputations. If you prefer Timken, they're usually available on EBay at $7 to $10 shipped. Search Timken Set 16 for the outer, and Timken Set 17 for the inner. Seals would be extra.
Timken recommends replacement of auto wheel bearings at 100k. That would be the life of an average car today, but well before the life of what most of us here are driving. I'm not sure of the optimal interval to clean and repack, as it depends on driving conditions, but I usually do it at every brake job.
Peter
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Sat Feb 2 14:13 CST 2019 [ RELATED]
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have you ever been in a vehicle driving at speed when a wheel bearing seized and the front wheel flew off the car.
I have.
As a passenger in an early 60s VW Bus, driving up the Westside Highway in Manhattan doing about 50mph. The right front wheel came off, hit the guard rail and flew straight up about 40'into the air. Really lucky the bus didn't flip and roll. Really Lucky that the wheel just ended up harming no one as this happened at the northern end of Manhattan where there trees and scrub along that side of the highway.
I was 17 and I think I used up a couple of those 9-lives that are gifted to teenage boys.
Don't screw around with the damaged or semi damaged orwhat in-your-limited-experience-opinion are "Not too badly damaged."
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Don't obsess over the issue of new or reuse. This isn't a knock on your mechanical abilities - but your questions (wisely asked) illustrate a lack of experience - just go ahead and install new bearings, races and seals. The cost-relative to the important job the bearings do - is minimal.
Personally I have no qualms about using a steel drift to drive out the old races but a plastic, brass, wooden or leather mallet should be used to get the new races started in the hub and finish driving in with a brass drift. When doing the driving OUT part look for the small "cutouts" in the hub that allow access to the edge of races for your drift. When doing the driving IN part listen to the sound of the drift against the race -- when the race hits bottom the sound will be different.
Correctly packing the bearing is of utmost importance. Put a glob (a little smaller than a ping pong or golf ball) of fresh grease in the palm of your "off" hand. Grasp the bearing with however many fingers can fit into the center of the bearing and with the wider end facing down dip into the glob's edge forcing grease into the bearing. Do that until you see grease being squeezed out between the rollers and at the far end of the bearing. Rotate the entire bearing in your fingers to the next spot that needs grease and repeat the process until you've worked your way around the bearing. Put a layer of grease inside the center of the hub.
Be sure to remove the old rubber seal on the spindle and install the new seal with the "flared" end facing out. Smear a tiny amount of grease onto the inner bearing retainer where it rubs against the seal.
I think the '88 has a castle nut with a built in "washer" surface so after tightening the nut to fully seat the bearing follow directions as far as final adjustment. Older Volvo models (and most other older cars in general) have a separate thrust washer. After seating the bearing I back off the nut and then re-tighten it till there's no play but loose enough that the separate thrust washer can be easily slide side to side with a small screwdriver (as taught to me by the master German MB mechanic I was working under). -- Dave
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I keep the ruined bearings too. Just not on a car. -D
(OP, it looks to me like you got a rock in there on yours when you repacked it.)
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"...real expertise is never appreciated. People would always rather muddle along in their own dim, blundering way than have someone else point out where they were going wrong--even if that other person is clearly brighter." -Jeff Lindsay
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Hi Art,
I man of my own heart!
I keep the old rings too.
I keep them around inside my press area.
http://www.dakecorp.com/products/hydraulic-presses/hand-operated-press-25h
This was a way around posting a picture.
I added a flat plate to the front ribs in the lower rails to keep them in.
They come in handy to fit over or around things to press.
I’ve got some other heavy steel chunks to create platforms to press on, as the rails themselves are open to do long things that hang to the floor.
I use it a lot now to split wood.
The last wind storm delivered one of my 50 foot trees into the neighbors yard. I came home to cut it up and store the wood. I have too many trees that line both sides of my property.
They’re dead trees standing. About 35 year old bull pines. Not good for much but scratching the hides of cattle.
I have to let “the acts of god” take them down. The winds are getting worse for doing exactly that!
Lost one two years ago. $300 to drop it only! I even helped get his saw running, that he said he just got out of the local shop! Good ole starting fluid!
Yep, Otherwise the insurance won’t pay for any damage if I do anything to speed it along.
To have a service do them costs a fortune out here! Again, Insurance’s working against each other!
It seems we are all triple insured by several overlapping policies.
Homeowners insurance, is like car insurance, not worth the paper it’s written on, except where they write in their clauses.
I hope I helped the owner, of the many threads on this car, to avoid a conflict with his insurance company.
They may have a clause exempting Do It Yourselfers!
The chances are very low that you lose a spindle, but so is hitting curbs with a drivers side wheel!
Have a good day!
Phil
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Phil,
That bearing picture I posted was a result of my 16-yo sliding the right side wheel into a snow-hidden curb. I'm convinced that was the cause. Immediately afterward, I replaced the control arm and sway bar from JY parts, but didn't even think to check the bearing. It was the next summer before the whining going around ramps caught her attention, and then mine.
I understood after replacing the wheel bearing what a serious safety matter that posed. We were lucky my ignorance was discovered. The noise a ruined bearing makes going around a curve is distinctive. 20 years driving a 240 - will be 36 next month.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
EVER WONDER ...
Why the sun lightens our hair, but darkens our skin?
Do plumbers who become electricians install outlets upside-down? Hot on the left?
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