1990 240 estate chronic no start/will start. I have replaced most of the relevant parts including the computer. The car drives fine for days and then just won't start. After the last time I had it towed home, charged the battery and it started the next morning. It has started and run fine in test drives around the neighborhood but I am afraid to go anywhere else. The last time it died, the first few times I tried to start it it would catch and then die. After three or four tries it would not even catch. Could it be debris in the gas tank blocking the pickup? I would appreciate any help.
Phil

Intermittent problems don't cooperate when you want them to.
The way to find an intermittent problem is to take data while its happening. For this you need a plan of what to check and how to do it.

How do I crank the engine from outside the car?
Is there pressure in the fuel line?
Are the injectors firing?
Is there spark at the plug?

Decide where in the car and how you will do the tests.
Practice each test while the car is working.
Keep the necessary tools in the car.

Happy hunting!

Good Advice, thank you!
Phil

I suggest a specific test of whether you have a fuel or electrical issue. When the car does no start check for spark and check for fuel. Until that test is done it will be hard to fix.

Catching and dying to me indicates a fuel problem

You mention a lot of electrical parts you have replaced. No fuel parts replaced.

Fuel pressure test?

How old is the fuel filter?

In tank fuel pump intermittent failure?

Bad coupling at ECU wiring (again intermittent)?

Just an update. First off thank you for your reply. I am at the point of just throwing new parts at the problem, so I have ordered both the in tank pump and the main pump as well as a new ignition switch. Ignition switch is on back order but fuel pumps are in transit. Since I intend to keep the car I feel that this is at least preventive maintenance and who knows it just might fix the problem. Once I have everything installed I will risk driving the car again. I will post updates.
Love the car, HATE intermittent problems!
Phil

Is your battery strong? Alternator & reg charging right? You mentioned having to charge the batt a few times,,,,,

Battery is fairly new. I just ran it down trying to start the car.

I am sure it is a fuel delivery issue. You mentioned an intermittent failure of fuel tank pump. I am under the impression it will still run to some degree with only the main fuel pump. The fuel filter was on the car when I bought it 4 years ago, but in the past when I have had filter problems the car would lose power or stop completely and then start again after a period of time. With this problem the car starts and run fine and then simply won't start. The ECU has been replaced.

Perhaps you should list the part you have replaced. Do they include the fuel injection relay under the passenger's knee bolster?

Try to determine if the problem is fuel or ignition related. Will it fire and run momentarily on starting fluid?

Randy

What I have done; Replaced 25A fuse holder and fuse on left front fender, replaced the computer, cleaned MAS and throttle body, cleaned and lubed with dielectric grease every connection and socket I could find under the hood, replaced the fuel pump relay and crank sensor and cleaned all fuse clips and fuse ends. OBD shows no codes.

I would remove the hose on the throttle body and while holding the throttle plate full open spray starting fluid through the throttle body into the intake manifold. Does it momentarily run?

This has been a long, on going problem. Most of the time it would start with starting fluid and run fine for several days. Then one time it would not start at all. I jumped fuse 4 & 6 and it started and ran until the jumper was removed. I replaced the cpu and that seemed to cure the problem. After a month this last no start occurred. I did not have starting fluid with me so I don't know if it would have started with it. Had to charge the battery after towing home. Next morning it started and ran just fine. So, if it is starting I can't trouble shoot anything. As I said in the original post I am afraid to drive it anywhere where I have to shut it off.

The "parts cannon" is a valid approach to an intermittent trouble. You try to replace those items which have a reputation for being a source of sporadic trouble, like the CPS with its history of water ingress, the fuse holder and wiring for the FI under the hood, and the fuel injection relay.

The most significant cause of intermittent trouble is a poor connection. Parts replacement just doesn't cut it here, because you can't practically replace wiring harnesses on guesses.

I led you to replace the ecu because you specifically made one test where you were able to run the motor with the fuse 4 fed power by a jumper wire, when it wouldn't otherwise start. That, combined with the ecu being identified as the pink label -561 prone to losing fuel pump ground, and your having replaced the relay made that decision a good one.

Yet, after a month of OK, it runs, you are back to a stall and then it starts after a tow, which I realize now was the way it was before it died altogether.

Try putting your old -561 back in sometime when it is running OK on the -951. Just verify it still fails to start with the pink label ecu in. Only a ten minute test. At least get that out of the way so you can know whether you are fighting a two-part trouble, with one part already solved. 29-year old cars can have more than one trouble at a time.

Having to charge the battery after the tow reminds me of a trouble my daughter had with her '93. She broke down in traffic in an urban business district and was delighted to find a tow truck driver spotted her predicament. She accepted a tow to his garage and the promise of quick diagnostics. The shop replaced the ignition power stage in front of the battery, but when she went to pick up the car, the battery was dead.

It was not a defective battery either, just discharged, but they sure did try to sell her one, suggesting it was the root cause of the failed ignition amplifier. I imagine it was all the cranking and not starting that drained the battery, and she confirmed that by driving straight to her favorite battery warehouse store and NOT getting an upsell.

If you are keeping your tank fairly full, your pumps are probably in good shape, or if your tank pump has failed, that isn't the reason the car quit. Scratch that idea if it were 90 out, you're in Denver, and the tank is empty. Doesn't hurt if you can get new parts in there without issue, but the pumps aren't usually thought of as being intermittent. Connections to them, yes, but not the pumps themselves.

But you are absolutely right. If it "ain't broke" it is hard as hell to troubleshoot. The only thing I can suggest to that end is gently wiggle connections to every part you can think of having to do with engine management; AMM, ECU, fuel relay, fuse on the red wire, CPS, ignition coil power, ignition power stage, and grounds on the fuel rail. Gently.

--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Back in the 1800's the Tate's Watch Company of Massachusetts wanted to produce other products, and since they already made the cases for watches, they used them to produce compasses. The new compasses were so bad that people often ended up in Canada or Mexico rather than California . This, of course, is the origin of the expression,..."He who has a Tate's is lost!"

Hi Art,
Thank you for your reply. I have not looked at the site while I was waiting for my parts. As I said, I intend to keep the car so replacing both fuel pumps and the filter is not a problem, just preventive maintenance. I have received the parts and installed the pumps and filter. I will replace the ignition switch tomorrow. I will follow your advice check various connections.
Thanks again,
Phil

My 82 GLT had a similar problem. Car would start and run. Then suddenly would not start. Wait half an hour and it would start and run. Sometimes it would shut down while running. Wait half an hour and away it would go.

It was the impulse sender inside the distributor. A copper wire was making and breaking according to the ambient temperatures around it.

You have probably found your problem but if not give this part a try. My mechanic took the whole distributor out and replaced it with his test distributor. That is how I found out where the problem lay.

Bob

THANK YOU, those are exactly my 240's symptoms. Most times the problem has happened when it has been warmed up and has set for about 15 minutes. Tomorrow being Thanksgiving I will replace the impulse sender on Friday. My only concern is that it will start on Rapid Start but won't keep running. Will t I will post the results here.
Phil

Phil, that just might do the trick. You already replaced this sensor, according to your original post, but as I've experienced, new sensors can have intermittent defects.

My symptoms were different, but the point is "new" parts aren't always "good" parts. The story: https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1408779/220/240/260/280/cranking_issue_timing_starter.html
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Never put both feet in your mouth at the same time, because then you won't have a leg to stand on.

Art, I am out of my depth here. Muskox37 said his problem was the distributor impulse sensor and his symptoms match mine. However if I jump fuses 4 & 6 the car runs. If it is the distributor sensor will that prevent the fuel pumps operation and still fire the spark plugs when the pumps are running?

Your impulse sensor is the one you replaced on top of the transmission bell housing. If you followed my link, you saw a photo to remind you of that lovely task. Muskox37 replaced a coil inside his distributor, which serves as the impulse sensor on an ignition system two generations behind yours.

"However if I jump fuses 4 & 6 the car runs."

Tell us more about this statement. Use a few more words, explaining the circumstances, what you're doing, and when. Leave nothing to assumption. Are you saying today, if you don't jump the fuses the car won't start, and if you do it will? Repeatably??
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance.

Yesterday morning I did two errands each trip was about four miles and everything was fine. The car sat for about 30 minutes between trips. The problem happened on the third trip of about a mile. Car sat for about 20 minutes and would not start. I then jumped #4 & 6 and drove home. This morning car will not start without the jumpers. It will start repeatedly with the jumper in place and dies when jumper is removed.
Phil

Great. If you can get it to fail to start repeatedly without the jumper, you have a good chance to pinpoint the trouble.

If you have a Bentley, the test is outlined in the section on testing the fuel injection relay unit, which has two relays inside. You want to see if both relays are getting pulled in when you try to crank. The desired result is you get battery voltage at terminals 87/1 and 87/2, the terminals connected to the orange wire and the yellow/red wires respectively.

Having replaced the pink label ECU and the FI relay, you've covered the two culprits responsible in the vast majority of causes, but a loose or damaged connector pin or crimp at the relay socket or ECU plug could also result in a failure to pass the test above.

If you have a test light or meter, try to catch it in the act of failing. I'm assuming you have indeed replaced those two items, though I'm also assuming you've managed to replace them with good parts.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

The second mouse gets the cheese.

Art, when I moved the relay to test it the car started. So I am sure that the problem is in the relay wiring. The sockets in the connector all look good and the wires are solid in the connectors. After removing tape that was wrapped around the wires I a found a really ugly solder joint, where someone spliced the wire from 87-2 (Blue/Green) to 87-2 (Yellow/Black). I pulled on the joint but it is solidly connected. Wiggling the joint does not stop the engine. My wiring color does not match your post but I imagine that is a normal variation. I have ordered a Volvo factory wiring manual so at least I will have good diagrams. The problem is the same as it was before I replaced the relay so the relay is probably good. Is there another connection further down the line from the relay that might be the problem? I took pictures of the wiring but I don't know how to post them.
Phil

"After removing tape that was wrapped around the wires I a found a really ugly solder joint, where someone spliced the wire from 87-2 (Blue/Green) to 87-2 (Yellow/Black)."

This is suspect. The blue/green wire should not be spliced to the yellow/black. If it is, you're the victim of a previous owner's hack repair, most likely to circumvent replacing a defective pink label ECU, which I understand you already have done.

Also, it appears to me there's a typo in your response, repeating a reference to terminal "87-2."

"My wiring color does not match your post but I imagine that is a normal variation."

No, there is no variation expected. The wire colors need to match. The Bentley's copy of the 1990 Volvo manual is correct if poorly reproduced. The fuel relay is item 217 in grid J2 on p. 390-52 first edition. When you get your manual, it will look more like this:



And you can post any pics you have if you first upload them to a host site. By what you describe, the pictures will tell the story.


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Art Benstein near Baltimore

When a man steals your wife, there is no better revenge than to let him keep her. -David Bissonette

Art, I posted the photos. Please let me know if they tell you anything.
Thanks, Phil

Phil, I can't find the photos you posted. Maybe, in the meanwhile, you could use some words to describe your analysis, now that you have seen a clear wiring diagram of the relay circuit? Compare what you see in your car to the wiring diagram?
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

I could trust a fact but always cross-examined an assertion. -- Michael Faraday

Art, my photos are listed under 200, technical. I won't be able to work on the car today but will tomorrow. I compared your illustration to my photos and everything looks right. I will splice the blue/green wire back together and replace the solder joint on the yellow/black with a crimp splice. The fact that the car would not start but started after I moved the relay makes me think that it is a wiring problem at that location. I physically pulled on all of the wires going into the connector and they were all tight. I can see no signs of corrosion and looking into the female connectors they are all clean and in good condition. When I moved the relay I did not touch the ECU cable so I don't think the problem is in that connector or cable. Should I just replace the connector?
Phil

I found the pix. Let me include the telling one here:



Yes, you've been the victim of a dangerous hack to avoid the cost of a replacement ECU. The danger is in having the fuel pumps run at all times when the key is on, meaning they could pump fuel out of the tank after a crash.

Whoever did this should have their soldering iron taken away from them, both for the danger they put your family in, and for the poor joint. Anyway, now that you have the replacement ECU, all should be well and reliable if you just splice the remaining wires as they were before being modified: blue/green to blue/green and yellow/black to yellow/black.

Yes, the splicing is tricky with so little to work with, so I can see why you asked about another connector. I would use UN-insulated crimp splices with an indent-U crimper, covered with a short piece of shrink tubing. Using the insulated splices is possible but because you can't see what you're doing, it depends on more experience to get a good crimp. A good crimp is vital here, because it is reliability you're restoring. Don't scrimp on a crimp.

The socket terminals can be released from the socket housing by depressing the tabs, if you feel more comfortable having the extra working room.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Always use precise language and be guided by observed fact. -- Isaac Watts

Art, I corrected the wiring on the connector. While I had the socket terminal out of the connector body I saw that they were slightly discolored from heat. I slightly tightened the terminal and cleaned everything with a good contact cleaner. The car started and ran even while I moved the relay and wiring around as much as I could. So I am hopeful that the problem has been fixed. Just in case I am keeping my jumper wire in the glove box. I really appreciate all of your help. You kept me from losing what is left of my mind.
Phil

Hi,

Isn’t it good to have success at such a sweet price!

Somewhere along the line that relay was getting hot internally. I think I read you had already changed it out. Can you find the old one and tear it open to see what was failing or causing the overheating?


I’m looking in to a 2005 Toyota Tacoma that is throwing a P0500 code for no vehicle speed sensed but the speedometer works fine.
I suspect a bad wire connection from the speedometer head outwards to the ECM. There is a box shown to be in between them that changes the signal to More pluses or a Higher voltage for the ECM to accept.
A lesson learned from Art Benstein about the speedometers of our 90’s 240s.
In reading forums, this gadget is about $450-$600 to replace with labor.
I found a place to send the whole cluster, to get it repaired for $200, so far.
I have to take it out to get to the harness, so believe me, I will be looking for a fix like yours!
My sister-in-law’s super good friend, cannot afford the higher repair bill.

Phil

You are right, it is a great feeling to solve such a lingering problem. I have tossed the old relay so I can't do an inspection.
Phil

Hi,

What a shame, if the insides looked normal ... It might have been good for a spare ... If it was only the female terminal that got weak on the tab.

Thanks for the feedback.
Sure hope it runs well because you have fretted enough on finding it.

Enjoy cruising!
Phil

Sounds good. The shake test is a good one. Also, after crimping, a pull test to make sure the crimp is tight. I bet it will be reliable again now. And safe.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Brickboard members are the most likeable, smartest, and best-looking people on the internet. [Citation needed]

Hi Art,

I agree with all you said in the post and he is right on the verge of catching the Gremlin in the act of shutting down his car.

On a lighter note about your quip on a mouse.

In my small town up north we have a butter and cheese making company that works with the local dairies. I know the Master cheese maker who immigrated from Switzerland many years ago and retired a few years ago.

I asked if that had they found another person to replace him. He told me that the whole world of making cheese anymore has changed. He says, “ the mouse makes the cheese.” I said what? He smiled and explained that it’s all in computer programs and automated equipment these days and it has been that way for several years.

He said he didn’t feel useless though as they still needed him like a Chef, for his credentials but it was time to retire.

Phil

Right machine man Phil...

There are very few items involved to support the symptom bikerider Phil reports, and each of them has already been examined. I think the only approach left is diagnostics with a meter or test light, since the part swap approach is leading to more questions than answers. Just have to wait until we hear from PDX again.

As for the mouse making the cheese, I'm impressed by your Swiss friend's sense of humor. It made me think about how I could say I earn my living with my hands albeit most of the time with a mouse in one of them, not a test light or a meter.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

I have several of each awaiting time and inclination, as the Tower of Pisa said to Big Ben, "If you've got the time, I've got the inclination." - GD III