Volvo RWD 200 Forum

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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

When I press the brakes, about 50% of the time the "brake failure light comes on." At stop signs, the car creeps forward, so I must push harder to get the car to stop moving.

I bled all four brake calipers. I don't see an leaks in the brake lines, calipers, brake booster, or master cylinder.

Please help.








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Partially Solved! 200 1988

By the way, I have NON-ABS brakes/

I just got back from a test drive. The brake failure light did not return and the spongy/sinking brakes resolved.

I changed the brake master cylinder. then bled the brakes about three times per wheel. During bleeding, the brakes were very high. However, when driving, they engaged about half-way down. Brake pads all are about 80% of pad remaining. Do I need to flush them again?









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Partially Solved! 200 1988

Using a pressure bleeder like a Motive Power Bleeder?

Or are you using the brake pedal? With the bleed nipple open, when you release the brake pedal, fluid travels back into the caliper. Air travels through the nipple / caliper thread space, and so compressible air remains.

Some may 'bench bleed' the new master cylinder.

I've not ever had to do this. ABS or no.

You are using the proper bleed pattern for non-ABS 240, yes? In the Bentley and Haynes manual, as well as the green service manual.
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Brake Bleeding Response and Question 200 1988

I had assistant press the brake pedal and hold it, I opened the bleeder valve, then closed it, then had assistant release the brake pedal. I did this several times for each bleeder valve, refilling the brake fluid reservoir to the top each time. The brake pedal engages halfway, which is the only problem right now, ie no sponginess or sinking to the floor. There are no leaks of brake fluid and the front wheels spin when raised. Just to be clear, I only want the pedal engagement to be higher and, given the amount of brake pad left on all brakes, should have it engaging higher.

I have #2 brake configuration per the plates/tags on the car, meaning Girling front and ATE rear calpiers. I'm familiar with those and the calipers look like Girling in the front and ATE in the rear.

I've used speed bleeders in the past on my Toyotas with success, because I don't like having to rely on an assistant. However, my Toyota speed bleeders don't fit the Girling or ATE calipers. What brand/part number of speed bleeders would work?

Thanks








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Brake Bleeding Response and Question 200 1988

You did not answer Kittys... question about the order of bleeding. It's very important to bleed all 8 in the proper order. You'll find that procedure in most repair books. If you don't have a book handy--1.left rear 2. left front upper 3.right front upper 4. right rear 5. right front outer 6.right front inner 7. left front outer 8. left front inner. -- Dave








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Why? 200 1988

Just curious what your thoughts are regarding the reason it is important to follow a prescribed sequence when bleeding the brakes on a non-ABS 240. If you have the time...




--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

The short fortune-teller who escaped from prison was a small medium at large.








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

You do not mention whether or not you have ABS brakes. Not sure when they were introduced on the 240.

Non-ABS systems will have two brake lines to each front caliper. There are a total of 7 bleeder valves.
Not getting them all or not following the specific sequence of bleeding will result in a low pedal.








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

91 was the first year for ABS in 240’s.
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....








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Frequency to Change Brake Booster and Master Brake Cylinder? 200 1988

Are these preventive maintenance items that should be changed at certain intervals, or do you change them only when they go bad? Thanks








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

Sounds like a failing brake master and they don't always leak when they go bad.

They sometimes bypass internally.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

Thanks.

What are the symptoms of a master cylinder and also a brake booster failure?

Thanks








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

You described master cylinder failure in your original post. Does the pedal also sink when you apply the brakes? If so, it is definitely a bad MC.

If you have a hard pedal and need to push on it with great effort to stop the car that describes brake booster failure. You’ve lost your power assist.

--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....








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duplicate comment by mistake 200 1988









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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

It's an intermittent problem. I got this car the other day as a fixer-upper, and EVERYTHING needs to be fixed. I broke off a brake bleeder nipple, the top-most one one the passenger front side. Odometer stopped working at 284k miles. There was almost no fluids (except coolant) in reservoirs when I got it.

Today, I replaced the rigth front brake caliper with a junkyard. I tested all areas for leaks - none. Bleed with helper. Brakes appear normal, no softness, falling to the floor, or brake failure lights. I can test it some more. Do you think it still might be a brake master cylinder problem?








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

if you look at an exploded view of the brake Master Cylnder in Bentley or Other repair manual, you will see that inside there is a Piston, that piston pushes what amnts to a 2(Two) rubber seals that force the Brake Fluid thru the BiFurcated brake lines.

When the seals develop wear, for whatever reason, the fluid will seap past them and will leak "pressure" that is applied that forces the fluid thru the brake lines a pushes the brake pads onto the Rotors. AND STOPS THE CAR.

A "failing MC" --- aks Leaking Seals = pedal to the floor/creaping down pedal////THEN NO BRAKES when U jam them on to avoid an OnComing hazzard. That's Common to All Vehicles. (ABS --- U don't have on this 1988)

Remove and and Replace the Master Cyl...not something to WAIT ON... don't drive it until U do.








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Spongy Brakes 200 1988

Maybe you got lucky! It might have been just excessive air in the system and you bled it out. 240’s are hard to thoroughly bleed. Keep an eye on it...
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....







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