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My usually reliable '90 240 wagon has failed with mysterious symptoms. In one day it had gotten so that it cranked slower to start, so I thought there was a charging problem, and when I got home and tried starting again it cranked so slow it wouldn't start. So I jumped it with another vehicle and got the battery back up so it cranked over as normal. But now all the warning lights except the oil pressure and parking brake will not light when key is in On position, and the car will not fire.
I can't test to see if it's charging since it won't start. Any tips on where to investigate?
Thanks, Chris
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To check the lack of warning lights in KP-II:
Remove the small red wire from the alternator's D+ tab. Connect a jumper clip between the end of it and a certain ground, like the braided strap between the firewall and cam cover. Check if the warning lights now come on.
If they do, then the alternator and its ground wire make up the primary suspects. Often it is just short brushes.
If they do not light, then the trouble is between the end of that red wire and the ignition switch - a lot of possibilities, but if the cluster hasn't been touched in a while, the more likely place for trouble is under the front crank seal where that red wire disappears into the harness.
If it is a no-start even with a charged battery, that's going to be a separate issue. And don't expect fuse 4 to be hot (energized) with key on engine stalled, except for a second.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
If tomatoes are technically a fruit, is ketchup a smoothie?
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So after jumpering that alternator wire to ground I had two more warning lights come on with the key on. Brake failure and bulb failure lights came on, along with the previously working oil pressure and parking brake. But still missing are the check engine, alternator, and SRS lights. Everything worked as normal a few days ago. Not sure what this result means; waiting for a wiring print to come from ebay. Any ideas?
Thanks, Chris
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Hi Chris,
Per your lamp report, it is certain you are fighting more than one problem. Once you get your wiring diagram, you'll see the path for testing the lamps (that's what lighting them key on engine stalled is for) includes the alternator for four lamps: Battery lamp, parking brake lamp, brake failure lamp, and bulb failure lamp. This is necessary, because with the exception of the battery lamp, those other three, and the service lamp, cannot light without their warning conditions being met. There are four diodes on the instrument cluster allowing this to happen before the alternator begins to charge.
So, number one, your alternator and its ground are suspect, and the result is the battery is not getting charged. Why the alternator lamp was not lighted is a problem in the cluster which could be as minor as the filament in that bulb is broken.
But, number two, the motor not starting could be related to why you don't get the check engine or SRS lamps to light. These two need power from the ignition switch and from the 25A fuse on the fender to supply the fuel injection and ignition computers from the latter and the SRS module from the former. A trouble common to both could exist in the wiring at the junction box on the left fender (by the blade fuse) or the ignition switch itself. Phil's suggestion to start with power supply is right on, but I understand it is some difficult thing to do without the maps. Although not as nicely done as the factory maps, have a look at this 1990 wiring diagram while you wait for the real thing.
Important question: Is this car new to you? Have you recently done any work near the cluster? Has the ignition switch (electrical portion) been changed yet?
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Money is the root of all wealth.
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Hi Art, I've had the car for about two years, and is my daily driver. But before I got it, it sat for a few years. I haven't tampered with the gauge cluster or ignition switch. Forgot to mention that the service lamp always comes on OK. Where do I find connector 31? That seems to be involved with some of my issues, as I look at your wiring print.
Thanks for the help; I'll get to the problem eventually!!
Chris
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As Art suggested, "So, number one, your alternator and its ground are suspect, and the result is the battery is not getting charged".
Before you go digging into the dash, check the ground wire from the alternator to the engine block. It is a short stiff wire that can break at its connectors.
What you could try, to confirm the ground is missing, is to ground the alternator body with another wire. Eg. Jumper wire from alternator to a good ground. If the lights come on, then the ground wire is likely a problem.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.
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Well I pulled the alternator, and sure enough, the ground wire to the block was broken at the terminal. Also the brushes on the regulator are way under spec length. I had the alternator tested at a parts house, and everything checks out good, so hopefully when I reinstall it the car will start. I'll get a new regulator as soon as I can find one or order one.
Still might have to dig into the cluster, since some warning lights don't seem to light with key on.
Thanks, Chris
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Hi all, Heres the latest in my 240 no-start saga. After reinstalling the checked out alternator I'm getting most of the warning lights to light, except for the check engine and alternator lights. Still cranks fine but won't start. I'm waiting for a good wiring print to come in the mail. Is there an obvious relation to those two lights not coming on and the engine not firing? What are the recommended fuel and spark tests? Thanks, Chris
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Just an add-on to Phil's good suggestions.
If you have no spark from the coil wire, pulling a plug can get you closer to the cause. If you have fuel on the plug, the trouble will be from the ignition amplifier (ignitor) module forward to the coil and distributor. But if you don't have any fuel on the plug, you can be pretty certain the spark trouble is between the crank position sensor and the amplifier module, sometimes called the power stage.
The signal which triggers the power stage is the same signal that times the injector squirts.
Of course all of this troubleshooting assumes you did as Phil originally suggested and verified these things are getting power from the battery. Power source is first step.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
When you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall.
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Thanks for the further tips. I think I'm on the trail of something that will make much progress. I'm getting power through fuse 6 just fine, but it doesn't show up over on the passenger side at the fuel pump relay on terminal 30, red wire, at all. My understanding from the schematic I have in my manual is that it should be a constant hot, fed from fuse 6. Obviously a serious problem. Are there connectors somewhere between the two that would be a potential open? How does that wire run and where would I dig to find likely weak spots?
Thanks, Chris
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Hi Chris,
The problem is with whatever you're using for documentation.
Fuse 6 has no purpose in the 1990 240 for North American market. But your FI relay terminal 30 definitely needs constant battery power.
The red wire feeding it comes from the blade fuse on the inner fender. If you read through the recent post https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1657764/220/240/260/280/1990_start_cranks_fi_relay_click_ignition.html you'll see this is a common trouble which has a simple way to rule out.
Did you find the .pdf I linked earlier in your thread Chris? It shows the correct wiring. Page 17, grid A-1 for the battery and fuse, and page 18 grid C-4,5 for the relay. I know, it's like a corn maze, but at least it is accurate in this circuit.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Those who jump off a Paris bridge are in Seine.
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Hi Art, Yes I referred back to the pdf prints, and will recheck the blade fuse situation. Definitely no power at the fuel relay, and the print doesn't show any intermediate connectors, so it should be pretty straightforward to get some power to the relay. The two remaining warning lights being out must be unrelated to the no-start condition. The darn Haynes manual I have mixes info and schematics from many years, so it's hard to hone in on exact specs, but I have a 1990 print on the way.
Thanks, Chris
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Hi All, Success! Now have a running vehicle again. The last gremlin was an intermitent open at that blade fuse holder near the battery. Poor design on Volvo's part. It's hard when multiple things are messed up at once. It's now charging at over 14 volts, and the only warning light not working is the alternator light, but I'm not going to worry about it for now.
Thanks so much for all the helpful input! So now another 240 wagon is set for 200K more miles! Later, Chris
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Good work!
As to "poor design" I agree. So many other parts and systems manage to last 30 years without maintenance!
The design was first implemented in 1983 and abandoned in 1990 (for the 91 cars). In 1983 the objective was to provide the best path from the FI electronics above your passenger's feet to the battery, safely, and without causing interference to the radio. EFI wasn't new in '83, surely, but Volvo learned some things from the even more dodgy attempts to bring high current for pumps and injectors in previous cars. Some think that was fixed in '91, but in my opinion, the fix, which ran 2-1/2 years was even worse in the long run. Moisture is the problem. Modern cars have better components to exclude moisture from connections.
Here's a page I put together some time ago detailing those issues and some remedies:
http://cleanflametrap.com/emfuse.html
Your lack of an alternator light might come back to bite you. The lamp is part of the exciter circuit, though the lamp test circuitry for the other 4 functions allows it to start up anyway, the lamp is your first line of defense when what happened to you with the charging happened. Better yet, get a voltmeter. Just the cheap one you can get to plug into the cigar lighter socket is enough, and maybe the battery warning lamp is just needing a new bulb.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. I just can't put it down.
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Hi,
First look into the oil fill cap hole and notice the position of the lobes.
Later after the following test, look back in there and see if it rotated.
Especially if you did not have the spark as suggested below.
Pull the center wire from the distributor cap and pull it over to a stud sticking up from the strut tower near the coil the wire came from.
Place it about 1/4 inch or less from the stud. This way when you are in the car giving it a crank you should be able to see a spark jump to the stud. It should be white to bluish in color.
The next thing is to look at the spark plugs or just a plug to see if they are wet with fuel.
If you had no spark for that period of time there should be some on them because there was no spark to burn the fuel off.
You should also smell fuel on the plugs.
That the first two steps or three to confirm that the three things that need to happen simultaneously.
Fuel, Compression and spark to create a fire or an explosion!
If one of those meet is time you get nothing but a cranking noise.
Not quite dead but working on it, if you crank long enough!
Phil
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Hi, welcome to the Brickboard!
I use to work with an old machinist, when I was young, by the name of Luther Lord. I saw the double LL's and was curious.
I would start with the battery cables themselves as either one can cause issues.
I think your car has a fuse holder coming off the positive post. This holder has smaller red wires with the holder in the middle. The insides of that holder are crappie or go being crap.
If you haven't done this already replace it with a unit that has a weather proof cap.
If it doesn't have that fuse holder an issue still maybe with those wires. They get corroded internally and weaken. Battery acid fumes are the number one cause especially if the battery has a lot of age on it. They get like old men and out gas. (:-)
This set of wires controls power over to a black junction box on the fender with a slide up cover.
The terminals in there split up power to several different points in the cars wiring.
The fuse panel inside the driver door hinge area is one of its first stops of about three simultaneously.
The instrument cluster is fed from fuses in there. I would clean the all of them on a regular bases.
The instrument cluster feeds exciter juice to the alternator upon it first starting to rotate. After that initial tickle of current the battery light goes out to supposedly say it's charging the battery.
It's called an idiot light in the old days. It means that if you don't have a voltmeter in the dash you do not know what's really going on!
It's like a wife. I rather have her wiggle a little finger (like a meter does) at me, than flash her lighting wide eyes, to get my attention. The eyes mean I'm in trouble and it could be anything!
You not having the other warning lamps coming on is saying there are power issues in here but the problem might be ten feet away or in the fuse panel.
The rolling over slow was a real heads up that something been wrong for a while!
Anyway, start with the power source, as it's the first rule in troubleshooting.
Phil
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Well, I went through your suggested items. The battery cables, flat fuse holder, and black junction box all are clean and hot. I cleaned and checked all the interior fuse panel fuses and fuseholders. The Haynes manual I use doesn't really have a good wiring diagram for a '90 240, so I'm going to try and find a source for a good complete one.
The same warning lights still don't light with the key in ON. Also noticed the primary fuel pump fuse does not get energized. Any further tips would be greatly appreciated.
Later, Chris
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