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Running rough 200 1992

OK I am at a loss here. A couple of weeks ago I drove my car two hours north into the mountains as I do frequently. The car sat for two days as I had other transportation. Started it up in the morning to drive to ski hill and it's running rough, low power on hills, feels like it's missing like crazy, etc. Same thing in the afternoon. Same thing the next day but as I drive the two hours home after half an hour it's fine. Drive around home for a couple of days and see less than thirty seconds of trouble one day. Drive back into the mountains, let it sit for a day and the same scenario happens. Drive 15 minutes towards home and it's fine. Thought maybe I got some water in the gas or something so popped in some Methyl Hydrate but it hasn't helped. Went back to the mountains again and the same scenario, it's rough until it's headed for home. Is this like the proverbial horse heading for the barn? I forgot to check for codes before I disconnected the battery to reseat various electrical connectors but checking after there were no codes set. I'm looking at Bentley in the Fuel Injection section but my car doesn't seem to match up to what they say. It's an American model with 88 as the 6th & 7th digits in the VIN(Bentley incorrectly says 5 & 6 I think) which should indicate Federal and LH 2.4 and should have a cold start injector. I can't see any cold start injector. I wanted to reseat the connector on what I believe is the Coolant Temperature Sensor for the LH 2.4 system but I couldn't get the plug off. It is the one under the second from rear intake runner isn't it? I'm also wondering whether I have the relay indicated as part of the cold start injector system and where to find it.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?








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    Running rough 200 1992

    Hi,

    Thanks for putting where you are located in your profile. Pretty area and rugged.

    The AMM is suppose to adjust mixture for altitude changes automatically. The fact a pressure change goes along with your driving variable, is a clue. More so than a faulty AMM or coolant temperature sensor on a car that runs normally down below.

    The higher you go up in the atmosphere air becomes lacking density.
    What makes up air, to be what air needs to be, is now is deficient of of its 20% oxygen content, an oxidizer, that make gas burn in the first place.
    By volume or weight there, this less consequently is the weight creating pressure, on everything considered to be normal.
    As Ted says, it equates to 70% less power. This percentage, I did not know as a fact, but it’s a grunch!

    A gas tank is a confining space designed to be a liquid and vapor holding vessel.
    It is not allowed to be operated under a vacuum condition. This is due to it would promote vaporaization or a lower boiling flash point in gasoline.

    Having any vacuum holding situation, would make it Very hard to continue to push gas out of tank, so it may not want to give it up easy. The engine may be getting fed through a straw!

    You are not saying you are getting black smoke, just lower power.
    This brings me to think that you might want to check the fuel tank cap to see if it venting or in this case letting air into the tank. That is until you go back down the hill!
    It can be sticking or has failed shut. Mostly from the lack of operation. Cooler climates have less barometric pressure changes over time and/or are not very rapid.

    I would either the crack the cap opena bit, when up there or get braver and suck on the screw end. You will or should see holes there. The air goes under the handle end and down the center.
    Do a lot of fast intakes to shake up the flap as it might be slightly dirty or gone stiff. It should buzz a little bit but easily.

    The cap is suppose to keep vapors from leaking out except in moderate to extreme heat environments.
    I am not an emissions technician, but I imagine, when the cap does get checked, it is probably only for a pressure holding test. The tank gets pressurized all the way out to the carbon canister. This check all the hoses involved.

    Worth a suck or shot, the next time you go somewhere, to get high! (-:)

    Phil









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      Running rough 200 1992

      Thanks. I hadn't thought about vacuum in the fuel tank. I'm back up there, ran great all the way up tonight so I know it's not altitude related. We're not that far above sea level here anyways. I've started thinking it is more temperature related which is why I asked about the relay that may be in the coolant temperature sensor circuit. If it's inside the passenger compartment it might take longer for it to get warm than components on the engine. I've had to re-solder lots of fuel pump relays before.








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        Running rough 200 1992

        Hi,

        If it totally goes away, maybe, just maybe you have cycled the check valve enough that it’s working?
        I’m will stay a little bit hopeful for you anyway.

        For the temperature relations department I’m not aware of any relays.

        The Coolant Temperature Sensor talks to the ECU and that’s about it. Unless you go with the Absolute Main Man, the AMM, it takes into account the air temperatures.
        These cars are always trying to self-tune and does so rather seamlessly.

        From what you just said it ran fine this trip up.
        I remember you thought, water in the gas, maybe the “dry gas” concoction stirred around enough for it to finally work.

        Since we all are getting stuck with ethanol in our gas, I was told it absorbs moisture,
        I try even harder to stay away from stations located in natural spots that you see parts of an Aquifer near by, Lakes and Riversides.
        Just because you see water over there doesn’t mean it didn’t come from where you are standing.

        As far as sea level goes, I have two coastal homes too.
        I live above or out of nearby tsunami zones.

        I don’t know about where you live, besides at sea level, but it’s something to be mindful of.

        Phil








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          Running rough - SOLVED 200 1992

          Well I think I fixed this. Waited a while before posting as it had been warm and problem only exhibited when cold, but now it has been cold again. After trying and checking many things with no improvement I decided to take a look at the ignition leads. They only had about 15000 miles on them and I really didn't think they would act up only when cold. I had sprayed water mist all over them with the engine running with no effect. However when I pulled them off three came apart from the collar that snaps over the spark plug. One looked clean and shiny but the other two were black inside from arcing. Replace them with a spare used set on hand until I could get a new better set. Haven't seen any reoccurance of the symptoms since. Still don't understand why it only acted up when cold.








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            Running rough - SOLVED 200 1992

            I'd find out why your wires are arcing so quickly. Wires should last a lot longer than 15k. Something is definitely not right!








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    Running rough 200 1992

    you do not specify where you are, what mountains you refer or at what altitude the car was driven.

    car engines are large oxygen pumps which they push into the internal engine to mix with aerated gasoline to combust.

    at 8000 feet your engine is producing 70% or a bit less of the power it is at sea level. (and it gets much worse higher up)

    and its an old 4 banger to start with.







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