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I have recently purchased my all time favorite Volvo. A '58 Duett.
Generally, in really good condition, it has been in storage for a few years and I am going through everything for fun, knowledge and upgrading.
The Duett had been previously upgraded with a B20 and 12V. Which brings up some potential problems and I'm looking for some guidance.
The mechanicals, so far, appear really good. The electrical, on the other hand, has me wondering.
First: The charging circuit is routed through the amp gauge (and the dash) through a really small diameter wire. The car has an 80 amp alternator which I'm afraid will overheat this circuit.
I would like to rewire this in a sensible manner and rework the amp meter by installing a volt meter instead - but keep it looking stock! I've seen posts where something similar has been done for the coolant temperature gauge on a 122S, where the gauge part has been replaced but the original face retained.
Second: I would like to do the same thing for the temperature gauge- convert to an electrical gauge.
Third: The idea of routing hot, 80 psi oil to the back of the dash to activate the gauge seems like a disaster in the making. I would like to also change this over to an electrical gauge.
The Duett has the old-school gauge panel with the round speedometer. I'm guessing that these are pretty rare and I'll only get one stab at getting these gauges converted.
Has anyone made any of these changes on the older style panel?
Information, ideas, warnings, instructions are all welcome.
-Thanks
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Tracy,
What a fantastic find! I've had my (P210) Duett for going on 15+ years now. Best of luck with it. Do be prepared to be pulled aside by all sorts of passers by, etc. The car really draws a crowd. And cameras. Just this past summer, while stopped at a red light in Mystic, Ct, a woman lunged through the open window and gave me a kiss on the cheek. She told me she !!loved!! my car! Seriously.
On the subject of electrics, excellent advice from the others, much more knowledgable than me.
A couple of things to consider... if you don't have it already, electronic ignition. I converted mine from a 240 setup. It's great and hasn't to date given me any trouble.
A tachomter. Volvo (not back in the 50's) made a pod style tachometer (made by Smiths I think) that was standard on the 123GT and an option for others. I found one that works though I have to have it converted for accuracy due to my electronic ignition upgrade. On my list...
Your wheels. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but... I always considered the 445 esthetically superior to the P210. Volvo (like everyone else) saved money by making a 'one style suits all' wheel that was really designed for their 140 series. Mine came stock with those slotted wheels too and the first thing I did was source a couple of sets of old steelies and painted them the same color as the car. In my case I left the hubcaps off and am using trim rings but I have at least two good sets of hubcaps. For some reason, I think the car looks better without them.
I did something similar to the interior - I got rid of the 140 style highly chromed door and window handles and substituted with ones like yours. (I wish I could swap the dash board (I can't) but that's another story...
Enjoy...
KaiS
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The slotted wheels came out in 1965, long before the 140, on the Amazon and the last year of the 544. Agreed that it was a modernisation feature but also helped with brake cooling with discs. Duett never got discs but did get the wheels. Duett wheels are different part numbers to the others and might be more HD. I agree that the disc wheels look better but prefer them with the beauty rings and hub caps. Door furniture shown is original 445, alloy I think, so no need to change. Looks to be a nice example. Is the front the older type of grille? Year not mentioned. Picture please.
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I found a '59 445 a couple years back, out of storage for 15 years. and am preparing to begin to bring her to life. The PO had swapped the front clip & B16 to B18 from a crashed 544--all good--stuff.
The 9 gallon gas tank would limit cruising range it seems. Has any one done a retrofit on the original tank....a fuel cell perhaps? I was looking at the spare tire compartment--possibly a regular square tank could fit there. I am not against a subtle retrofit to improve drivability or safety.
Leaf springs set-up would allow a rear-end swap. Anyone done that for a better ratio? Was curious about early 1800 w/ drum brakes and the width?
Great to see a Duette thread, yours has a classic look with the solid color.
Best Regards, Ken, in Sunny Florida with a yard full and mo' in the garage
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Although my 544 probably has slightly different gauges, all are quite accurate and VERY sensitive, something that I like, and I doubt that you would get with electric replacements.
I even purposely ran out of fuel and found the gauge to be dead accurate - BTW - when it stops bouncing a bit, you are nearly empty. After I put two gallons from my spare tire can, it started right up.
I have a BMW spare tire can, heavy metal with a spout - great can!
You have a great looking car - don't tinker with it where it doesn't need it.
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my god. I'm envious. looks like a beauty. i questioned the ammeter myself, but finally decided if i could refrain from sticking a screwdriver or something where it didn't belong, it was fine as is. so far, so good.
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Beautiful car!
If the amp gauge works, I'd leave it. If the wire is of questionable size, replace with an adequate size for sure. But if nothing can ground out, I wouldn't be worried.
If the capillary for the oil pressure is metal, and if it works, I'd leave it as is. It's a reliable set-up.
Mechanical temp gauge too.. reliable and accurate.
Sure, everything could be converted to electric, but to me, that would invite possible inaccurate readings.
That said, if you must have it all converted, have it done by a reputable company. To me, none of these projects are a DIY.
As for rarity.. those gauge sets really aren't too bad. Keep an eye on ebay. Same as found in a 444, which are comparatively common.
Make sure it's all safe. That's the biggie. Change for the sake of change is not always best.
Just my thoughts.
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Thanks for the input.
DO you suppose that it would, at least, be a reasonable idea to run the charging line through a shunt for the amp gauge?
Does anyone have information on what shunt I should be looking for?
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I agree with Matt B. The original VDO gauges are very reliable.
And I have never seen or heard of an oil pressure gauge having a catastrophic failure with high pressure hot oil spraying into the cabin.
I have had to fix small leaks due to improper installations of original and aftermarket oil pressure gauges. Most people don't know there is a small leather seal on the back of the Smiths oil pressure gauges used on all of the 1800 Volvos. And it likes to fall off when the oil pressure line is removed from the gauge.
Under normal circumstances, the load going across the amp gauge is low.
Most of the alternator's output is going to the ignition system and all other accessories(lights, stereo, wipers, ETC).
IF YOU HAVE A HEALTHY BATTERY, only a small portion of the alternator's output goes across the amp gauge to the battery.
AFAIK, 3 of the 4 gauges, water temperature, fuel and oil pressure, can be rebuilt.
I did have to replace an amp gauge in a customers 445, but since I had 2 NOS amp gauges at that time, I just sold and installed a new 1.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
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Thanks all,
I have been duly slapped up side the head and have returned to my senses.
It's just that I love to tinker, it's really hard not to do something.
I'll stay with my original plan and get it sorted out by mid December. There's lots that needs to be done without making things too difficult for myself.
-Tracy
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Tracy;
General Comment: If gauges work, and accurately, there is little reason to mess with them, short of cleaning up wiring or pressure line runs with sleeving and Adel Clamps to protect them from damage from vibration or sharp metal edges...
Amp Gauge - If car was a 6V and has been changed to 12 V, there's nothing wrong with retaining the OE Amp Gauge...current is current...regarding your question about Shunts...usually these are internal to meter, requiring full current to flow through meter, so heavy wiring will be necessary, but "remote shunt" setups are also possible, so only small gauge wiring is required to meter. Separate Shunt and Meter circuits determine indicator sensitivity, so must be engineered to play properly together...probably not something for the casual mechanic...see also info and discussion of Amp vs. Voltmeters: http://www.sw-em.com/elecramb.htm ...both Voltmeter and Ampmeter require some interpretation of the info given...I prefer an Amp meter, see discussion...
Oil Pressure Gauge - Yes there is a tiny line connecting the engine oil system to your dashboard, but there is no flow, or movement of oil through that line, so it's not hot (unless it were to start flowing in the case of a rare failure), and in that case, the tiny cross-section of sensing line acts as severe restriction, as well as a heat exchanger preventing a gusher of hot oil...IF a leak were to occur, it would start as a weep, which would hopefully be detected and could be remedied before it became a bigger mess...there are many Oil Pressure gauges out there, and failures, although possible, are quite rare...assure line is run in a protected manner and worry about something else, like a nuclear weapons in the hands of fanatics...
Cheers
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