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EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

1991 Volvo 240 station wagon. 130,000 miles CALIFORNIA CAR
"Check Engine" light came on a couple of weeks ago. Panic time - I have to pass the California smog test to renew the registration no later than November 22.
Looking for someone who has experienced this problem on a California car of this vintage.
Used the self-diagnostics with the code lead in slot 6. Gave me a code of 4-1-3. Not listed in my Bentley Manual (why not??). Online I found it is the ERG temperature sensor. Tried to extinguish the code - no luck, so I followed the one sentence instruction to disconnect the harness and check the resistance across the two connector terminals leading to the sender (Bentley 253.6) It's supposed to show resistance of 500 - 1000 ohms. I measured 557 ohms. , I tried again to wipe out the code - and it worked! But it came back the next day. So I know some facts, but I have no useful knowledge about what to do now. If the price of the part were inexpensive, I would not hesitate to change it out.

QUESTION: A. Since Bentley did not list the trouble code of 4-1-3, can I be confident that temp sensor is the problem? Is there a place I can check to verify that 413 is the temp sensor?

B. Given that (I have heard ) that the temp sensor rarely fails, should the next step be to R & R the ERG temperature sensor even though it is within acceptable range?

C. what should be my next step?

Unimportant side issue: I fail to understand how mechanics, on a time clock, can get their hands in this area to connect/disconnect, hold something, and still measure it. My hands don't fit.








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    EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

    Hi,

    Got your message!

    Since you may still have the old sensor it can do one more thing for us before you throw it away and that is give us some dimensions.
    Like the diameter, length of the body and the type of leads and how many.

    If not I might have a EGR on an engine sitting around? Trick is where on the harness or the EGR for me?

    Where I used to work I had to keep spare safety sensors for food processing equipment for back up. I retired about 15 years ago.
    Back then, I had catalogs around my desk and stored in folders to certain equipment that I maintained.
    As I now remembered the U.S. Sensor Co. carried thermistors for many applications so I looked them up on the web.

    Well, it looks like they have gone bye-bye! Seems they got acquired by the Little Fuse company and I’ll bet the prices went up from what I see in the stores on their fuses! (:-(
    But then again, maybe not?
    I found this : http://m.littelfuse.com/technical-resources/technical-centers/temperature-sensors/thermistor-info/markets-and-applications.aspx

    The web is different than having a catalog to paw over but l’ll be willing to bet that a sensor can be found for far less than any $130 each!

    If I can lock down the approximate operating temperature of the EGR exhaust pipe and the range of swing in resistance required I would say there is a stock unit made to replace it.
    Since U.S. sensor probably made Volvo’s sensor.

    I bet the ECU looks for just a movement to happen between two approximate values and does not have to be exactly anything when it calls for it to open!
    If I’m guessing right the engineer did what I would do and not reinvent the wheel! He bought it readymade as that by itself keeps the price way down. Especially in quantities.

    In the my days of young, salesmen kept our engineers loaded up with catalogs! I know as I dumpster dived in some trash bins in our shop, that was just out the back door of the engineering department. Good browsing when you get a long cut going!

    Part of my job or jobs as I aged was being sort of a technical liaison between the boys up front and the machine shop. Some things can get drawn easier than they can be done!
    One reason you see print revision numbers in a box in the corner of a blueprint.
    Anyway, the few older engineers I worked with have a belief that the best ideas and products come from references of catalogs.
    A real hell’va old man engineer told me once that he or any of the guys in here is as good as his resources around him, as nobody knows all those mathematicians equations. We all look things up!

    I think finding a thermistor, should be like being a good parts counter man with lots of books!

    Phil








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    EGR temperature sensor 200 1991


    No, not OK. I have been waiting for the new EGR temperature sensor to arrive. Ordered it from FCP Euro, then found out they had to obtain it from Volvo of North America - more days delay. Meanwhile I have been driving the car with the old sensor disconnected and noticing heat coming from under the car that I had not previously noted. I wonder if something about this is causing the Catalytic Converter to heat up.So the new sensor came today and was here when I returned in the afternoon. Disappointed to see that this $113 part is "made in Japan". First thing I did was attempt to test the resistance of the new sensor. Clearly I do not know how to read the multmeter. The Bentley manual states that the reading across the two terminals should be 500 to 1,000 ohms. Here are listed the choices I have when pushing the "range" button on the multimeter:
    .0L
    0.L
    OL.
    Within each of these I have a choice of:
    Ohms
    K Ohms
    M Ohms

    The only reading I get on the old sensor (bench tested out of the car) is
    on the setting "O.L M Ohms" - first reading 1.600, second reading 02.70, third reading 02.60.
    On all of the other settings, I get no reading whatsoever when testing the old sensor.

    Readings on the new sensor (also bench tested out of the car):
    OL. K Ohms 190.0
    .OL M Ohms 0.190
    O.L M Ohms 192.8
    I can't tell if any of these readings are within 500 to 1,000 ohms. I would guess not.
    So I cannot be sure if the new sensor is defective. I am inclined to not believe I have a defective part. I cannot even be sure at this point that the old sensor is defective.
    I am tempted to just put in the new one and see if the CEL comes on, but I'm waiting - with only a week to renew the registration, which requires that it pass a smog test.
    Today, after removing and testing the old sensor I put it back in and erased the code. Tomorrow I will see if the CEL comes on again. Tomorrow I will call FCP for advice. Maybe someone there can interpret the readings I got.










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      EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

      Hi faof2,

      I have a feeling FCP Euro sent you a defective or an incorrect EGR Temp sensor.

      Yes, FCP Euro does that, huh?

      Do you have part numbers on the package or on the sensor connector itself. Early LH-Jetronic 2.4 / EZK116 use a positive coefficient thermistor for the EGR temp sensor (hotter temp, higher resistance). Later 900 series on or after 1994, or maybe with OBD-II (I'm unsure when), have negative (or inverse?) coeffiecient where colder is higher resistance and resistance lowers as the EGR temp sensor thermistor gets warmer.

      I'm unsure the factory part origin, yet Volvo has used quality made in Japan parts since the 1970s or early 1980s or so.

      Sort of depends on the digital multimeter display. What make and model mulitmeter do you use?

      How many digits can you see on your multimeter. Fixed decimal point or can the decimal point display at different locations between numbers.

      Usually, and I speculate, usually, a multimeter has a 4-digit display. Both of my GB (Gardner Bender) brand model GDT-180 from the 1980s or so Radio Shack and the somewhat inaccurate made Harbor Freight CEN•TECH have 4-digit displays.

      Harbor Freight CEN•TECH



      Uses 9-volt battery. 200-2000-20k-2000k stepped for checking Ω Ohms resistance.

      So, you measured like 500-something ohms when you checked your very likely failed EGR thermistor. You say you have choices of:

      Ohms
      K Ohms (1000 - kilo- thousand ohms)
      M Ohms (1,000,000 - million ohms)

      So, you'd set it to Ohms and the display would show, as you already tested it:

      500.x ohms.

      If set to K Ohms, would display to the right of the decimal as:
      0.5

      OR if the decimal moves, maybe

      0.500 oe so ohms.

      Do you get it?

      "O.L M Ohms" - first reading 1.600 ....
      That is 1.6 million (or mega) ohms at, I guess, room temperature.
      or spelled out it is 1,600,000 ohms.

      ".... second reading 02.70, third reading 02.60."

      2.7 million ohms or 02.60 million (or mega) ohms

      or, spelled out 2,700,000 and 2,600,000 respectively.

      Or you digital multimeter is inaccurate or defective when checking ohms resistance from the time your EGR temp sensor that is now failed to now.

      You may have a defective, or more likely, the wrong EGR temp sensor meant for later 940. Very likely a negative coefficient thermistor-EGR temp sensor. Won't work in 1991 240. (Unless of course you want to swap EZK ignition control units, and no, you don't.)

      Yet I am unsure as the information is confused and muttled on the documentation. Though I am certain the EGR temp sensor on your 1991 Volvo 240 is a positive coefficient temp sensor thermistor.

      As you see here for your:

      https://www.volvopartswebstore.com/products/Volvo/Temperature-sensor/1180953/9135404.html

      So, you get to send it back, telling them it's wrong. You have the Bentley manual and it tells you resistance

      Also, see the link here (copy and paste):

      http://volvowiringdiagrams.com/volvo/LH%202.4/LH2.4%20EZ%20116K.pdf

      See PDF Page 14:

      "Cars with lower chassis number have had PTC type EGR sensors installed."

      Does not say when or what chassis number. I'm none too thrilled with Volvo documentation at times, like now.

      So, you may have a wrong temp sensor as the NTC variety or, as Art points out, the ohms check function in your DMM does not work.

      Questions?

      Does that halp?

      Simpson analogue muultimeter used to be boyeeee.
      --
      Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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        EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

        Has anyone come across instructions for testing the EGR temperature sensor on line? Something different from what the Bentley man says to do?








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          EGR temperature sensor 200 1991


          Late breaking news - and finally some solid facts (I think).
          I decided to bring the Volvo for diagnosis ($120) to an independent provider where , I am told, one of the mechanics has been working on 240's since that were introduced. Results - both the original and factory replacement EGR temperature sensors are defective. This was determined by back probing the sensor wires with the car running to determine the amount of output voltage. Also that the there was a fault code (#2 diagnostic slot on the OBD) with regard to the mass air flow sensor. Specifically that the contacts are not good, resulting in inaccurate readings. I will get another sensor from FCP. Probably won't get it in time to meet the deadline for renewing the resistration.
          Anyone know of a good explanation of how to do back probing? Especially with regard to these specific wires.








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            EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

            Get the Bentley 240 service manual. Procedure is in there. Or search this forum using the search feature.
            --
            Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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              EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

              Seven months ago I began this thread because i was not ableto figure out why the CEL kept coming on indicating a bad EGR temperature sensor. In reviewing the thread, I was surprised that I had not given an update. Here is the condensed update:
              After being informed by readers that there are two different EGR temp sensors (I'm thinking of you kittysgreyvolvo), I found the correct one (REALLY hard to find) at a wrecking yard and installed it. That put an end to the CEL and I went away happy. No further problem on that issue. I drove immediately from the wrecking yard to the smog check station and passed with flying colors. The tech asked if I had just driven it a long way, as the numbers were excellent.Thanks to all who contributed to that solution.
              The only lingering issue with the EGR temp sensor is what to do if this used one fails. I am not likely to find another. I suppose I could have a new EGR valve put in with the correct temp sensor, but I do not know if the computer would be compatible with those replacement parts.
              Now I am starting a new thread. Not sure if there is any connection with the problem described and resolved above. Not long after resolution of the EGR problem, my engine began acting abnormally. I have been driving it now for about four months with this unsatisfactory condition. Here are the persistent symptoms:
              - poor gas mileage
              - periodic smell of hot metal, presumably the catalytic converter
              - frequent hesitation at all speeds, lasting from just an instant to (less commonly) as much as 2-3 seconds. Every day and every time I drive it.
              - bit of a rough idle
              - occasional slow idle. When combined with hesitation, results in engine quitting at stoplights or anytime it is idling.
              - occasionally a bit faster idle or mild surging
              - engine always starts and re-starts, but may need extra throttle to keep it going
              - The Check Engine Light (CEL) has appeared several times during these months. I checked, then deleted the codes each time.
              Socket 2 codes
              1-1-3 "Fault in fuel injector(s)" appeared twice
              1-2-1 "Fault in signal to/from air mass meter"
              1-3-3 "LH 2.4 Throttle switch idle contacts misadjusted or shorted to ground" appeared three times
              2-3-2 "Fuel system compensating for rich or lean air/fuel mixture at idle"

              socket 6 codes
              2-4-1 "EGR system faulty 1991 and later California cars" appeared twice
              Time is a limited commodity right now. I hope to start with the easiest or most likely suspects.
              I plan to take out the AMM and use that special spray on it. With that out, I will check for mechanical issues such as cracked bellows, and put a pin in the thermostat so as to disable it, as per the tutorial instructions provided by Art Benstein. Might even clean the throttle body.
              While searching on line, I came across some material that suggests a couple of approaches. I put quotes around each comment, then made my own comment.

              A. "If your ECT is reporting a low coolant temp to the computer it will consistently dump gas into the cylinders to compensate."
              I could check the coolant temperature sensor.

              B." Check your fuel pressure regulator - pull off the vacuum tube and smell for gas or feel if it is wet - if it is you need a new one and check your throttle position switch right off the intake manifold. Vibrations may have made it loose. Start the car and then see if your tps is movable to touch if it is when in the proper spot your engine will get smooth running so tighten it down., the return of rough running could be plugs or wires or distrib cap as well but I thinkk tps and fuel pressr regulator - fpr and tps those two go on our older chariots".
              I could check the TPS and the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

              C. "The problems I had seemed to be from a bad fuel pressure regulator and subsequent failure of the o2 sensor. After replacing the fpr the problem would go away for a while then the ce light would come on again. I finally replaced the o2 sensor which it seems was damaged by the constant rich condition. With the new O2 sensor all is well."
              Not sure how to check the O2 sensor.

              I am interested in any suggestions you may have.








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                EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

                Hi,

                Glad you thought of us again and gave up us the update.

                I personally would like to know what the details are on that sensor type for the EGR.
                I knew there at two types of coefficients (the direction in which the temperature affects the resistance specification) and which one you got turned out to be was the wrong one.

                I remember that the one you got was very expensive in my mind.
                Did you get a refund or just how did that worked out with the vendor?

                I have been thinking, if I ever needed one of those, I would go through an electronic supply house.
                The big deal would be having the correct information as these things should not cost that much since they are made in mass numbers and can be applied in many designs.
                You said you ended up going to the junkyard, so that did not give you any specifications. knowing the wrong one is half the battle, for me, as I search the catalogs.


                As far as the newer continuing problem, I’m sorry to say, may be symptoms are pointing more as the AMM is going south due to being overheated.
                You got get that air filter thermostat out of there. I use a 5/8” square chunk of something in place of it, to push the flap over to shut

                I have used that spray on my AMM’s and cannot say that it did anything to help its performance. It does look better as it cleans outer screens.
                The hot wire inside is so fine that you can hardly see it let alone define that it got cleaner.
                Anything that gets on there is supposedly burned off with high current for a second or so...after the engine is shut down. This only happens if the ECU records that the engine speed went up over 3,000 rpm.

                I got a can of the stuff only because I have worked on vehicles with more mechanical type mass meters with moving vanes.
                The deal comes on when like replacement parts are needed.
                The expendables are spoils from the getting dirty and the free labor I provide.

                Yes labor fixing lots of things parts free!
                Checking for a loosely clamped intake hose or one with holes. This can cause rough idle, hesitation on take off or lots of low speed antics
                But high speed hesitation is more like the AMM.
                A HIGH speed miss could be more an ignition issue like bad plugs or wires but you indicated that it comes with somewhat regularity?
                This makes me think the computers are in conflict with inputs signal and it’s trying to adjust as it can do that very quickly.

                I’ll cross my fingers and my toes, if it would help, for you to find it a simple thing!

                Phil








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                  EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

                  Machine Man, you wrote " I personally would like to know what the details are on that sensor type for the EGR." I can share what information I have learned, though it is incomplete.
                  In answer to the second part of your question, the online vendor readily agreed to accept back and refund my money when I informed them that both new ($130) sensors (part # 913540) did not work on my vehicle. I was disappointed that they showed no interest in further exploring the issue when I informed them that the part they sent was the wrong one for my car. Same disappointment with the mechanic and Volvo repair shop that performed a diagnostic on the engine. Their position is that if the parts book, using the VIN, shows that is the correct part, it is the correct part. Okay, moving on. Recently I contacted a Santa Cruz, California repair shop that has an excellent reputation for working on Volvos. I was told that there is a TSB (TP31621) dated December 1991 that addresses this issue. My notes from that conversation indicate that the "old" temp sensor part number is 3517135. That part is discontinued. I also wrote "EGR 6843406". Not sure what that means. My concern at this time is that the correct used Temp sensor that is working just fine now may fail and that I will be unable to find a replacement part and therefore will fail the smog test and be unable to use the car. My question now is: If I have a new EGR valve installed, will the corresponding temp sensor I buy be compatible with my existing computer. I suspect not.
                  Elaborating on this issue, if you go to another earlier submission in this thread posted by kittysgreyvolvo on Thu Oct 26 15:05 CST 2017 You will find two pictures. The first is a picture of a lug with wires marked as "Image courtesy of our Art Benstein:" Ignore that picture.
                  Go to the second picture which is marked " The newer version EGR valve (not my image):"
                  COMMENT: As I write this submission as a Word document, this image appears. I doubt it will appear when I copy this submission to the Brickboard format. However the image is contained in the submission by "Kittys Grey . . ." that I reference above.

                  The newer version EGR valve (not my image):


                  That picture shows the EGR valve and EGR Temperature Sensor as it appears on my car. The EGR valve set up in that picture appears to be the same as my car (1991 Volvo 240 California car). I am presuming that my car was not updated to a new design.
                  The next image is a diagram of the EGR system for engine B230F. the diagram is marked " Oh, found an image of the newer setup, though this is on Volvo 940 (full size image):" The temp sensor (part # 24 on the diagram) is listed there as Volvo part number 9135404. That is the "new" number for the part that will not work in my Volvo.
                  In another previous submission in this thread also posted by kittysgreyvolvo on Sat Oct 28 16:48 CST 2017, he writes:
                  " You have a positive sensor coefficient (PTC) EGR Temp Sensor, as I do. Resistance rises as it warms.

                  You may merely need to replace the EGR Temp Sensor with a known good from a junkyard or new that is of quality, or OEM, or Volvo. I do not know what company that makes the EGR Temp Sensor.

                  Though after all this time, it may be a solution to your problem ... or not. A replacement EGR Temp Sensor will secure in the same place as the one you have now. Though we try to perform fault cause diagnosis so we're sure the issue is the faulty part. Though some will throw parts at problem with no result." END OF HIS QUOTE.

                  So for the time being, my temp sensor issue is solved because I have the correct part which is no longer available. My current poor engine performance problem needs attention. Not sure if it might be in some way connected with the now-solved EGR temp sensor problem. I plan to start that search by checking out the AMM - when I have time.













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        EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

        Update. This morning I brought my new EGR temp. sensor to the nearest AAA approved repair shop and asked the tech to see what ohms reading he got. I was not there when he tested it. He said it was 2.75 K ohms, and he said that is way below 500 to 1000 ohms. I am assuming he knows how to properly test for ohms. That finding reinforced my suspicion that the new part MIGHT be defective. I then called FCP Euro to get some advice, given my lack of competence with the multimeter, and the finding of the presumably competent mechanic. They are willing to accept a return of a possibly defective part, but I would have to send in the part and it could be some time before I could get a new part. Which means it would be past the time for a smog check to renew my registration. He encouraged me to put the new part on and see what happens. He said regardless of the meter readings, it may be a good part - he said the "made in Japan" is actually a positive thing. I continue to have the bias that in these situations the part is usually not the culprit. So I installed the new part (my skill at working in this area of the engine is increasing, and so are my scrapes) and the CEL came on about a minute after getting underway. I called back the FCP rep and he checked some material. His material makes no mention of testing this part by measuring the ohms. His material indicates a functional test. Specifically, do a back probe to determine the voltage when the car first starts up, and another check a short time later. I looked at the old (original) sensor and saw no way that I could back probe at the connection to the wire harness to measure the voltage.
        Side bar: Do I understand correctly that EGR is just for the purpose of reducing emissions at startup? That the EGR valve only opens during the warm up?
        Given my registration deadline, I plan now to take it to a trusted Volvo mechanic who has been working on the 240's since they were introduced.
        Meanwhile, I will review Kittysgrey's messge and check the part I received.
        Okay, the package on the new part shows "Part Number: 9135404"








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          EGR temperature sensor - decimal place ... 200 1991

          K (sometimes 1K on the Ohm test dial) means 1000

          As in 1000 ohms.

          "2.75 K" =

          Or 2.75 x 1000 =

          2750 ohms.

          The value the above nominal for the EGR temp sensor for your and my 1991 Volvo 240 with EGR.

          I may have gotten figures wrong in my earlier email as I'm horribly dyslexic. I originally saw "2.75 K" as 275,000 ohms, yet I know to check values several times.

          Your other option, if you can, is to remove the speedo instrument cluster and surrounding dash bits, and pop out the light bulb for the EGR cluster, and reinstall it. Though you must be mindful to reconnect connectors and wires correctly or risk damaging it if you connect the wrong wire spade connector to the wrong terminal.

          Perhaps the most direct way to test the sensor is to use the two probes at the end of the EGR temperature sensor. Some probe options can end in small alligator-style clips.

          Here is how I test the oxygen sensor heater element using my multimeter. Though it is a cheapie Harbor Freight multimeter. Pressing the probe ends againts the pin. Art did say when I posted this the value may not be quite in range.



          You are in CA-state, THE state that hates cars (or, rather, makes older vehicle ownership difficult), was built on the car, yet loves all the revenues the 40 million cars in the state generate for CA-state. EGR is a state mandate for a 1991 240 if sold there. My 1991 Volvo was sold in Germany and Germany required it. The same system version as on your 1991 240.

          Though you can research this stuff on the i-net, EGR is a systes to direct some 10-15% or so of exhaust gases back through the engine to reduce nitrogen gas oxides, or oxides of nitrogen, or NOx. On Volvo 240, it reduces the mileage by 1 mile per gallon. Atmosphere is some, what, 768% nitrogen. So, fuel, air, compression, spark and heat oxidizes the nitrogen gas, and NOx can be a health hazard.

          Political environmental policy made the need based on too much smog. Smog may be caused / comprised by NOx produced by transportation vehicle or any sort of carbon based power generation.

          CA-state inspects emissions controls. Yet how closely depends on the SMOG test facility you visit. They will want to see that you have the silver preheat hose connected between the exhaust manifold. Cannot drive to a test with the EGR dash light on, as you know.

          Questions?

          Hope that helps you.

          PS ......




          Off topic, sort of:
          Do you know whether the preheat flap valve in your air filter box works, or is it stuck to hot air inlet only. If stuck to hot air inlet only, that can raise NOx. Some will block the bottom air filter box air inlet somehow.



          --
          Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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      EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

      You may be doing the best you can with your meter, especially if someone has damaged it by using the resistance function (ohms) on a powered circuit. See if you can borrow another, or better yet, borrow a little help from someone who has a meter.
      --
      Art Benstein near Baltimore

      Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.








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    EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

    Hiya Jerry,

    Happy Mundae.

    How many miles on your 1991 240?

    Your hands are too large? I also have ham-handed hands. Didja remove the air intake piping between the air filter box and the throttle body. Should have good access there after. Great time to inspect the accordion like hose for cranks and chafed holes, also.

    You received a socket (ignition) fault code of 4-1-3. You repeated the process in socket 6 for any other fault codes? No socket 2 (fuel) fault codes?

    Reference our Uncle Art Benstein's current image posting guidance in your brickboard.com posts:



    Avoid Photobucket like a plague as I've recommended for many years.

    For your Volvo-related images, we have the BrickPix. Press Ctrl + mouse click BrickPix link at the top of this page to open a new tab of the BrickPix page. You only limit is the max one megabyte file size, no matter the image pixel size. Also, use the full URL in the browser address field after you have opened the uploaded image. BrickPix is the same as what Art references as the "Brick Board Gallery" in his bright and happy image you see here. Imgur may be okay for general image sharing.

    I also have a 1991 Volvo 240, German Market, grey market import to Yoo Ess Aaaaaay, with EGR.

    Image of the EGR temp sensor in the EGR pipe downstream of the valve.

    A Volvo TSB relocates the temp sensor to the EGR valve, should you replace the EGR valve, as the EGR valve vacuum diaphragm can fail. (Remove vacuum line, and suck. Comes to a stop and holds? Okay! Or use a vacuum gauge.) EGR valve replacement also requires a replacement of this pipe from the EGR valve out to where it secures at the air intake port manifold.

    EGR vacuum servo, sometimes called a pump, As Machine Man Phil mentions, yet is merely a valve opened (energized) by the EZK116 controller when the coolant temperature rises (and closed - de-energized).

    You see the cap, and prise up with bladed screw driver. Made of metal. Just don't let it fly away. Hold a hand over it as you prise it up.

    EGR Temp Sensor again.


    Where the EGR pipe 'downstream' of the EGR valve secures to the air intake port manifold.


    As Phil Machine Man says with the EGR controller servo doo-hickey. I agree this may be the cause.

    Your temp sensor reads fine for resistance at the two connector pins. Though with multimeter test probes secured to the two connector pins, gently wiggle the wire at the sensor end and the connector end. There is no strain relief for the two wire cable between sensor and connector. 27-28 years of vibration may cause the conductor to break inside the wire. Though quality copper alloy stranded conductor wire is encased in high temperature insulation. The fault is unlikely save for maybe very high mileage EGR equipped 240 with the EGR vapor stream electrical thermistor temp sensor.

    You can buy a new replacement. Can you solder? If enough lead remains, solder and seal for underhood conditions.

    Else, replace.

    Though while not reported, there could be issue with EGR flow as the EGR piping can come clogged as exhaust vapors condensate to clog the piping at the EGR valve and usually downstream of up and at the EGR pipe section where it secures to the air intake port manifold.

    Though sort of doubt that as you indicate the single fault code.

    If no fault in the sensor wire wiggle test, and a disconnect / connect of the EGR temp sensor after clearing fault socket six fault codes and Phil Machine Man's check of the EGR controller filter material, and the fault continues, than EGR temp sensor may need replacement with new. Or you may have corrosion at the EZK ignition ECU on the fire wall bulkhead at the passenger foot well. Or some other wire route fault. Follow the wires.

    Volvo PN 9135404. Rock Auto (81-84$ for two choices), Autozone, Tasca Volvo Parts, FCP Euro have them. Dunno about closer to you iPd. Ebay? Amazon?

    Questions?

    Hope that helps.

    My 1975 Volvo 244 DL in the early or so 1980s.

    --
    Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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      EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

      Thanks for offering your information kittysgrey. About 130,000 miles on the '91 Volvo. How many on yours?
      Loved your pictures of the components. Are those your pictures? The markings on each are helpful, too. The picture showing the " ERG vac pump" does not look exactly like my set up, but it is similar.
      You asked if I had questions - yes, lots of questions. I hope you don't mind. I am trying to understand how all of this works.
      Q. You wrote: ." click BrickPix link at the top of this page to open a new tab of the BrickPix page" What page would that be? How do I get to that page, and where exactly do I look?
      Q. You wrote: "A Volvo TSB relocates the temp sensor to the EGR valve, should you replace the EGR valve, as the EGR valve vacuum diaphragm can fail." Could you clarify or expand what you are saying here?
      Q. "You see the cap, and prise up with bladed screw driver. Made of metal." Are you saying your cap is made of metal? Mine looks to be the same shape and color as yours, but mine is definitely plastic. If it were metal, I would be more willing to give it a good pry. I've had too many older plastic things break off when prying. If yours is plastic, have you personally pried it off with a screwdriver? If so, what did you find under your cap? Is this a known procedure, or is this something shade tree mechanics have learned by trial and error? I tried a little harder to remove the cap just now, but it didn't pop off.
      I liked your suggestion to "gently wiggle the wire at the sensor end and the connector end." I'll try that tomorrow.
      Q."with multimeter test probes secured to the two connector pins." What is your method of securing them? Takes me two hands to do that. Tape maybe?
      Last question. Do you understand what Machine Man Phil meant about the "red wire"? (See my response to him about that.)
      Again, thanks for your suggestions.I look forward to your response.
      P.S. Check engine light came on again.








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        EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

        I'll ask again: Do you get any other fault codes in socket 6 (ignition) and socket 2 (fuel).

        Socket 6 code 4-1-3 is specific indicating some manner of fault between the EGR temperature sensor and the ICU. You used a multimeter and received a resistance of around 557 ohms as the Bentley manual (I have yet to replace my copy) indicates. So you use the test probes to wedge against the EGR temp sensor pins in the EGR temp sensor connector. You have some manner of out of resistance range as a wiring or continuity fault between the sensor all the way to the ICU connector.

        So, that is you fault code and what you need to resolve before opening the EGR piping.

        I should have not mentioned EGR flow and such, in my earlier response. Yet tend to go on, after strong caffeinated beverages like black tea.

        Yes, tape, perhaps. Clean the surface with isopropyl alcohol. Tape the probes in such a way that secures them in contact with the pins (flat blades, actually, not round pins) and wiggle or gently pull on the wire. Or, leave as is, back probe the ICU connector, and see what you get.

        ...

        The ICU (Ignition control unit) controls the grey plastic EGR valve. as it powers the servo to open or close, exposing the EGR valve diaphragm to engine vacuum to open it.


        I agree with Phil Machine Man. It'd probably be better to post here with your questions and our responses so that it become record on this board for other to reference.

        Though emails are good also as one needs.

        Like Uncle Phil Machine Man indicates, see the adverts? Keeps this board going, in addition to member donations.

        A:
        165,xxx miles on my 1991 kittys grey Volvo 240.

        M47 II manual transmission. Moon roof.

        Yep, my photo images showing the EGR setup on my 240 when answering another question about EGR some years ago. Thanks.

        You have the Bentley 240 service manual, yes? You can search for EGR and see generally how EGR works and what it does with gasoline engines.

        A: Red wire.

        Yeah, unsure which wire the 240 prior owner that Phil bought.

        There is a junction block behind the battery where full battery volt / amp current secures between the red positive battery cable clamp and this power distribution block with black cover.

        Image courtesy of our Art Benstein:


        Cover is removed and the power distribution block (PDB) assembly show as removed from the PDB housing.

        From Art's website page here at:
        http://cleanflametrap.com/emfuse.html

        A: BrickPix URL:

        https://www.brickboard.com/GALLERY/

        Or click BrickPix at the top of (I guess each?) page.

        The limit is a 1 megabyte (1024 kb) file length. The image may be as large as you like.

        Though once you upload to BrickPix, open the image, copy the URL in the browser window, and use Art's bright and happy graphic to post.

        A: Volvo TSB Regarding Newer EGR Valve / Temp Sensor Setup:

        Should you need to replace the EGR Valve, all new EGR valves have three holes:
        1. The EGR Valve inlet where the EGR pipe between the exhaust port manifold and the EGR Valve inlet.
        2. The EGR pipe between the EGR valve out where the EGR pipe secures to the air induction intake port manifold.
        3. The EGR temp sensor secures (screws in) here.

        So, you may leave the old EGR valve in the pipe, get a replacement, if you can, that has no EGR temp sensor hole. Leave the old sensor in the hole, though it may clog, eventually, or seal it up with appropriate hardware (Short machine screw / washer, some sealant).

        I can't find the TSB that describes the newer setup.

        The diagram here shows the EGR setup on my 1991 240 with the original then-current EGR setup:

        The image is much larger. I limit width to 1000 pixels in the post.

        http://freescruz.com/late240-egr.png

        width="1000"

        Item 30 and 31 plug the whole in the last EGR pipe section (Item 23) when using a the new EGR valve.

        The newer version EGR valve (not my image):



        Oh, found an image of the newer setup, though this is on Volvo 940 (full size image):



        Though the EGR valve on 240 has the temp sensor at a right angle from the EGR valve outlet.

        See the temp sensor at the bottom center of the image. The temp sensor is also superseded, though you can use the factory temp sensor in a pinch as I answered for someone on the facebook "Volvo 240 fan club" page.

        A: I've not popped it off in a long time. I know you can, yet, yeah, the plastic can be brittle from 28 years underhood. Mine is made of some sort of steel metal, at least I guess.

        There is some kind of foamy filter. As Phil says, the material decays in under-hood conditions. I believe Phil uses some form of poly thread mat. So, you have a teeny air filter in there, yet not obstruct the valve function.

        I've popped it off before and removed the stuff. I don 't recall so well, yet used some manner of poly fiber mat or something. Phil has posted on this issue before, so, followed his instructions.

        A: "with multimeter test probes secured to the two connector pins."

        You mention tape. I already make mention at the beginning is this post. I'm sure you can finger it owt.

        Though you may wanna back probe the connector at the ECU in the event it is a wiring problem beyond the EGR temp sensor lead and connector.
        --
        Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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          EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

          Let me start out with an apology to Kitty'sgreyvolvo. Somehow, I did not notice that you had submitted a response and instructions on Oct. 26. I just noticed it today. So what is written below was written without having read that submission. Rather than change what I wrote below, I will add comments at the end after studying what Kitty'sgrey had to say.
          Perhaps I should not have named the two black boxes BB1 and BB2 given that the Brickboard is known as BB. While on the subject does anyone know what that little black box that I named BB2 is called and whether or not it is discussed in the Bentley Manual? Phil wrote:
          " it powers the headlight relay for your high beams.
          This relay provides a flash feature that can be used anytime whether your ignition switch is on or not.
          It can be used to attract attention to your car if you are alone in a parking lot or want to tell someone where you are parked. This without blowing your horn, that I think, does not work if your ignition switch is off!"
          Here is my experience with that "little red wire" that Phil (Machine Man) referred to in a previous comment. It originates in the little black box (BB1) under the hood, at the top of the left fender. That black box has a manifold of lugs in it (not sure if these are the correct terms). That manifold is directly connected by wire to the positive battery post so any wire connected to the lugs is always hot if the battery cable is attached to the battery post. This red wire we are talking about is attached by a spade clip to a lug on the always-hot electrical manifold. Using a six volt tester, I found that the red wire dives into a wire harness and emerges below where it enters a wiring harness connector (The connector consists of four wires, two red and two white. One of those red wires is the red wire we are discussing here.) Since that particular wire is hot, I assume it is providing power to the black box (BB2) that lies just below the vacuum booster (the term used by the Bentley manual). Here is how that red wire fits into my experience with the car.
          Four days ago, it had been a week since I had deleted the 4-1-3 trouble code with it not returning, so I figured I could run it over for the needed smog check. Just after I exited the freeway a couple of blocks from the test site, the "Check Engine" light(CEL)came on! How aggravating. I am wondering if my driving five fast miles on an unusually hot day might have been a factor. I abandoned that mission, stopped, and deleted the code, but it came right back after two blocks. So much for outsmarting the car. I deleted the trouble code again. Then I explored that red wire discussed above that comes out of the "little Black Box" (BB1) and goes to the other box (BB2) just below the Vac motor. I opened up BB1 and slipped off the red wire going to BB2. I then confirmed that the CEL still lights up (along with all the other red lights on the dash) when the key is turned to position #2 (like you see in a normal start up). I then started the engine and drove home without the red wire connected. I was not aware of anything not operating, even though the red wire was not connected. When I got home, the Check Engine Light (CEL) had not been triggered, and I then put the red wire back in place on the hot lug. Yesterday, three days later, the CEL came on again - no hot ride involved. I again erased the code and the next day the CEL came on again. Each time the CEL comes on, I erase it. Seems that interval between the appearances of the CEL is getting shorter. It seems that the "little red wire" has not yielded any useful information, so let's say we are done with that.

          Clarification of fault codes. I found no fault code in position 2 of the on board diagnostics (OBD). Position 6 (EZ-116 ignition systems) of the OBD showed the fault code of 4-1-3. This code is not mentioned in the Bentley Manual. I believe it is listed erroneously (page 280-4) as 4-3-1 in Bentley ("EGR temperature sender signal missing or faulty 1991 and later California cars"). That is the only fault code that has come up. Bentley (page 253-6 "Emission Control" chapter) tells how to test the temperature sensor. As stated previously, my test showed it within normal limits. Machine Man suggested looking to the Vacuum Booster as the source of the problem. I tested the vac booster using the procedure in Bentley (pages 253-5 and 253-6). It passed that test. That same section mentions that "The self diagnostic program of the ignition system unit can be used to activate the vacuum booster and perform a functional test". I have not found that section to try it.
          Question: Should I do further testing of the vacuum booster, given that the test specified in the manual seemed to indicate that it was working properly? That is, grounding the wire caused the engine to stumble which happened because the vacuum booster let vacuum into the EGR valve and opened it. If further testing is recommended, are there specific instructions on how to go about that (what do I attach and where)? Can it be done leaving the booster on the car?

          Following the recommendation of Machine Man, I removed the plastic clip on top of the vac booster. I did not find noticeable deterioration of the mesh filter in there, but I removed it to see if that changes anything. I then started the engine and immediately the CEL lit up.

          I have not yet followed Kitty'sGreyVolvo advice to check the temp sensor by seeing if it continues to have the correct resistance when the wires are wiggling. That will involve taking off the bellows between the mass air sensor and the throttle body to get access.

          The car's latest behavior now is to consistently throw the 4-1-3 code after about one mile of driving.

          This would all be more interesting and enjoyable if I were not so inundated at this time with work and other demands on my time. Don't these cars know that there are other objects that need attention? Not to mention wives, children, etc.

          Okay, I just reviewed kittysgrey's comments. Thanks for the clarification of the junction block (power distribution block), and thanks for the info on your car. Would your car have the same EGR setup that mine does?

          I hope I have now been clear that the only fault code is 4-1-3.

          You write:
          "You have some manner of out of resistance range as a wiring or continuity fault between the sensor all the way to the ICU connector. "
          AND someone wrote:
          " you may wanna back probe the connector at the ECU in the event it is a wiring problem beyond the EGR temp sensor lead and connector.
          What specifically should I do to find out what I need to know?



          I did not understand when you wrote:
          "- - - you may leave the old EGR valve in the pipe, get a replacement, if you can, that has no EGR temp sensor hole. Leave the old sensor in the hole, though it may clog, eventually, or seal it up with appropriate hardware (Short machine screw / washer, some sealant). "
          However, I believe we are not at the point where replacing the EGR is necessary. If I decide to replace the EGR valve, do you know if new part(s) is available? Looks like a big job.

          One last question: I delete the code each time by following the instructions on the OBD.Is there another way to reset the computer after it throws a code?

          Today I hope to have time to check the temp sensor wires by wiggling them.

          Jerry










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            EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

            Hi Jerry,

            Thank you.

            It will help you if I do not wander in my response.

            Turbobricks helps - one post indicates broken wire:
            code 4-1-3...egr temp sensor???
            http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=109335

            And:
            240 L4-2320cc 2.3L SOHC VIN 83 B230FD (1993)

            http://workshop-manuals.com/volvo/240/l4-2320cc_2.3l_sohc_vin_83_b230fd/powertrain_management/emission_control_systems/sensors_and_switches_emission_control_systems/egr_temperature_sensor/component_information/technical_service_bulletins/page_3447/

            You have a positive sensor coefficient (PTC) EGR Temp Sensor, as I do. Resistance rises as it warms.

            You may merely need to replace the EGR Temp Sensor with a known good from a junkyard or new that is of quality, or OEM, or Volvo. I do not know what company that makes the EGR Temp Sensor.

            Though after all this time, it may be a solution to your problem ... or not. A replacement EGR Temp Sensor will secure in the same place as the one you have now. Though we try to perform fault cause diagnosis so we're sure the issue is the faulty part. Though some will throw parts at problem with no result.

            Yet the simplest solution ...

            We need only concern ourselves with OBD socket 6 EZK116 fault code of 4-1-3.

            Please bear in mind we cannot remote control repair it for you.

            Ignore the back probing at the EZK116 control unit box. To write the task would take a small novel if you know not how to do it.

            I also made a mistake, going from memory, that the EGR temperature sensor is not connected exclusively to the Bosch EZK116 though the wire harness and to the connector at the EZK116 control unit box.

            SO, your Bentley 240 Service Bible Manual should include, if you have a mid-to-late 1990s edition, wiring diagram of the engine control. The diagrams can be hard to read. So, we have as alternative (though you know this):

            http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/

            See the "240 Wiring Diagrams" directory.

            Download the "Volvo 240 1991.pdf"

            On PDF page 20 / 22, see the "Fig. 2: Computer Engine Ctrl (LH 2.4), SRS, (Grid 4-7)"

            Next to the right-side C, see:

            EZK IGN
            SYS ECU

            Let your eye-bulb move down to the D, and then left.

            [IGNORE the:
            EGR SENSOR
            (CALIF)
            As that is the solenoid to removed the cap and saw the air filter mesh was okay. Why I do not like these wiring diagram, yet I do not have the Volvo green manuals as they may better detail the topic of interest in this thread here.]

            You will see the:

            EGR TEMP
            SENSOR
            (CALIF)

            See the wire colors. Yet does not show the EGR wire connector where you tested the EGR Temp Sensor resistance.

            My fault, for some reason, is that the two EGR Temp Sensor wire are both connected the Bosch EZK116 control unit.

            No. I forgot.

            On the diagram, the wire, labeled BRN-BLK (Brown-Black stripe) secures to ground. That would be a body ground. The wire ends, more than likely to a ring terminal and his secured to the sheet metal under a self-tapping metal screw. Probably inside the passenger area footwell.

            The other wire described as VIO (Violet, or a dark purple), terminates as pin 22 at the Bosch EZK116 control unit.

            So, if not too late, I hope you did not remove the EZK box connector.

            What you can do is to use your multimeter to test the wire harness side of the EGR Temp sensor connector. You tested the EGR temp sensor using your multimeter and received a reading of 557 Ohms.

            A wiggle test of the wires while connected may not show fault at all. The EGR Temp Sensor wires to the connector are rather durable. That was my guess.

            SO, you can test the wire harness side of the EGR Temp Sensor connector.

            You have two wires. Pull the sheath back a but from the wire harness part of the EGR Temp Sensor connector and see the wires.

            To diagnose the other side, and check whether you have a wiring fault as OBD socket 6 fault code 4-1-3 indicates:

            BRN-BLK (Brown-Black stripe) secures to the car body ground and is negative battery voltage.

            Car is off, and key is out of the ignition.

            So, touch and hold the probe end into the wire harness side EGR Temp Sensor socket.

            Touch and hold the the other probe to a section of bare metal, like a screw on the body sheet metal. Or on bare metal, like a bolt head, or bracket, on the body.

            Does the multimeter show continuity? Set to ohms resistance. Whaddya get? Should nto be but a few ohms, I guess. Of course, your multimeter has good a good battery or batteries.



            VIO (Violet, or a dark purple), terminates as pin 22 at the Bosch EZK116 control unit.




            I'm unsure whether the + Volts DC carried in the VIO (violet or dark purple) is 12 volts or stepped down. I'm unsure, the EZK control unit engages (powers) the EGR temp sensor with the engine on or when the engine coolant reaches a certain temperature. I believe it is at a certain temp.

            See
            http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/

            Open:
            "LH2.4 EZ 116K.pdf"

            This EGR info is for 700-900 series. Though may be same enough for your 1991 240. 'Cept you have a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) EGR Temp Sensor. The warmer, the high the resistance through the sensor.

            On PDF page 14 / 16:

            Engine coolant must be above 149 degress for the EZK ignition control unit to power the EGR temp sensor. Yet this info is for 700-900.



            With key on, yet engine off, touch and hold the red positive probe to the violet color socket.

            Touch the negative (black) probe to a section of bare metal, like a screw on the body sheet metal. Or on bare metal, like a bolt head, or bracket, on the body.

            Whaddya get? I'd guess maybe some manner of 12 Volts, not more than the battery charge.

            Your battery cables are secure to the battery posts. No corrosion. Just a check.

            Does this help. I could show you in person in like 10-20 minutes. To write this has taken about several hours.

            So, questions?

            MacDuff.
            --
            Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.








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              EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

              Thank you, MacDuff, for taking the time (several hours!) to suggest approaches to this problem. That is duty above and beyond. That effort is commendable.
              Thanks to you, Phil Machine Man for your extensive contributions to this issue.
              Well, today I removed the air intake between the AMM and the throttle body to get access to the connector for the EGR temperature sensor. Using a multimeter, I checked the continuity across the two blades and I got nothing - an open circuit. Two weeks ago I got a reading 537. I checked and re-checked the result to be sure (because I have so little experience with the meter). So it appears the EGR temperature sensor is defective. That is good news in that it tells what to do next - change it. It makes sense, too. I am guessing that when the fault code first appeared it was failing and sometimes still worked. This explains why The CEL went on and the sensor got a good reading (537) followed by a period where the light did not come on after deleting the code. Presumably it failed completely after that and the CEL appeared every time it was driven. Thank you for the suggestion to wiggle the wires which led to this finding.
              Next I will remove the temperature sensor and bench test it. Looks doable.
              Some questions:
              - Anyone out there removed one of these?
              - Anything I should be aware of when I remove this?
              - Is it likely to be stuck due to heat or corrosion?
              - What type of wrench is recommended?
              - If the problem is a severed/damaged/loose wire would it be best to just repair it or replace it?
              - If I buy a new EGR temperature sensor (about $113 at FCP with lifetime warranty) is there anything else I should be think about purchasing?
              Meanwhile I am applying solvent to the threads.








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                EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

                I removed the EGR temperature sensor with no difficulty using a 14 mm open end wrench. To confirm it is defective, I bench tested it while wiggling the wires. It is supposed to show between 500 and 1,000 ohms. Got nothing.Tomorrow I will order a new one.








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    EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

    Hi,

    I have a California '91 that has had that light to come on twice in ten years.
    The first time was the reason I was able to buy the car. The PO had got tired od throwing money at it through an independent mechcanic for various components that would not keep the light out.
    The PO kept resetting it after every test drive until it sold. That was to me!

    I do not remember the code exactly but you can look for codes here. It looks that you are correct.
    https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineOBDCodes.htm#LH24FuelInjectionFault

    If the ECU program sequence does not receive a response back from the heat sensor ( a change in resistance, up or down or both ) in a certain amount of time, the ECU throws on the light.

    The problem for mine "twice" was the little solenoid valve that controls the vacuum to open the EGR.
    The GRAY valve is located on the strut tower at the end of a vacuum line coming from the EGR.
    There is a source vacuum hose that think is yellow. There is a yellow dot on the valve to keep them straight, if, it makes a difference?

    There is plastic cap on the very top of the valve that is removable by pulling off the aluminum crimp ring. Its not very tight as I remember.
    Underneath it there is foam filter that rots away into little pieces and my theory is it plugs up a vent hole of the valve so it cannot breathe consistently.

    I operate the valve with 12 volts and listen for a faint click. You should be able to blow or suck air through the valve. You get that to happen it should fix it.
    You might want to apply some vacuum yourself directly to the EGR to make sure that the EGR valve does work to move the stem ever so slightly. It's hard to see but if the light comes back on you will have to check it for operation.

    A Mity-Vac with a dual direction gauge hand set comes in handy for checking this and other vacuum motors. Great for leaks under the dash.
    I highly recommend one of these devices for a home shop tool.
    You can also "pressurize" the coolant system, when cold, to find coolant leaks let alone for other nifty projects that a small pump can handle.

    Hope this is your issue as its a cheap fix. I replaced the so called "filter or dust screen" with a piece of polyester fiber fill from a dog toy or a couch pillow.
    It won't rot but it will get just as dusty in about ten years again.
    I put about 90k on since I bought that car with182k and it's the only thing that ever has turned on the CEL.
    These engines, when tuned up where all is working, will pass smog. I bought a salvaged '84 from out of state in (?)1997.
    I could tell it was in good tune from the way it started and it smogged right away.
    Later I found out, while doing a muffler change, the catalyst converter was completely gutted out. Just the shell was there and still is. I don't think they ever rust out! Stainless steel.
    I remember the PO saying something about the CAT but I looked under there and it was on there and wrote it off as replaced or something. I got that one owner 112k car for $700, so I didn't really care. $40 for a left rear door, of the same reddish maroon color, I was and I'm still smiling.

    Yesterday I saw a nice survivor '84 Silver GL with 122k, two owner, sell for 4,250 +5% fee @internet "Seconddaily.com" Classics auction. Must have been some "love" or " gotta have" in there somewhere. It looked garaged but I'm not fond of silver as someday it will get cloudy and peel. I drive my cars someplace.

    I have since bought a 1992 with 234k was already smogged and tagged for me for the year.
    I still immediately popped out that material, before I ever could get to see that "panic time" light as you refer it to be.

    Right after I bought the 91 car I went to have its smogs done. It came on on the way there, just in time so the smog guy had to say he could rest it "because it was on."
    This was my first ever CEL light car! So I relate to your concern and wondered what I was in for!

    By the way, that PO of the '91, they would just slip the little red wire off, that inside the black terminal box on the fender as it has a wire going directly to the battery. I saw two tiny scrapes on the spade terminal.
    Quick and easy for a sneaky sell or to pass smog, maybe, maybe not?
    Just saying?

    Phil








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      EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

      Phil,
      Thanks for taking the time to write a response and offer your experience with this problem. I plan to follow your recommendations, but I first need some clarification.
      a. When you say "so the smog guy had to say he could rest it "because it was on." Not sure what that meant
      b." . . . . they would just slip the little red wire off, that inside the black terminal box on the fender as it has a wire going directly to the battery. I saw two tiny scrapes on the spade terminal." Could you give me a little more detail on that? Where exactly is the "black terminal box"?
      c. OK now, for the main event. When you write "I operate the valve with 12 volts and listen for a faint click".
      - Are you referring to the EGR Vacuum controller (Part # 3531138 - You call it "The little solenoid valve", Bentley calls it the EGR vacuum booster), or to the EGR valve?
      - If the controller/booster, how exactly do you perform that? Do you detach the two wires at the connector? How do you then apply 12 volts?

      d. "There is plastic cap on the very top of the valve that is removable by pulling off the aluminum crimp ring". Attached is a picture of this part, which sells for $350. Is this what yours looks like? I don't see a crimp ring on mine. I do not see a way to remove the plastic top and I'm reluctant to try to remove that top lest I break it and have to pay for a new one.

      By way of progress, today I examined the areas you mentioned and then decided to once again try to erase the fault code memory, which was successful. Right now there is no Check Engine Light. I have no confidence that it will continue. However, if it does, I will hurry to get a smog check, call it a day, and work the problem with no deadline.

      Anybody know how to add a picture to this?

      Jerry








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        EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

        Hi Jerry,

        On A, that line should have read that the man could not TEST the car if it was showing a CEL illuminated. He would have to charge me to fix the problem and then collect a fee for the state smog check. He said bring it back fixed with no light on and he would do the test.

        On B, the thin little black box is a terminal strip under a cover that gets pried upwards. You will see a smaller wire than the cables running from the batteries positive post. It runs up into the bottom of that thin box that is only a few inches away. It is attached to the inside fender just below a line of bolt heads. Its locate next to the headlight dimmer relay.

        On C, yes! It is a vacuum switch controlled by the ECU. Yes it is gray with a plug on connector and two vacuum lines.
        Nobody in their right mind would pay any such price for one of these valves. There are plenty in junk yards for a couple bucks and any other 12v vacuum solenoids will do the same job. It doesn’t boost anything.

        You open the connector by working it apart. There maybe clips or a tight fit holding it together that you spread open. You will see terminals on the inside going both directions.

        I apply 12 volts or I think you can use a small 9 volt battery out of a smoke alarm. It draws very little current. You want to only put power on the device and not any going on or towards the cars connector. Absolutely no power must go on the computer side of any circuit.

        You can undo the entire unit from the car and do your testing on a bench or kitchen table.
        You can blow and suck on the vacuum ports to see if it all flows.
        You will have to rig up some small wires to reach into the terminals on the solenoid unit side to test it. It should click when connected either way but it might be made to click only if the polarity if correct.
        I do not remember that detail.

        On D, As far as that cap it comes off with a little persuasive finger tips. It snaps on so just look at how they rigged it.
        Besides if it’s isnt working before you take the cap off, you can’t break it, because it’s not working or already broken anyway!
        You want to clear that tiny hole in the top of the body of the valve. It allows air in so the EGR will close again. The cap just protects that opening and holds the fiber in place. A wire tie could hold all of this in place. It’s nothing complicated.

        It does not surprise me that it did reset. It takes about ten miles to trip it again if the valve is plugged.
        To tell the truth, by you just tapping a playing with it you might have shifted the dust around so it can breathe again. It will be back though, if not in ten miles but a few hundred.
        Get that junk out of there so it will pass air to the EGR diaphragm with the valve switches.

        I hope it’s the valve and not the EGR diaphragm leaking. That is why I suggested the hand held vacuum pump with a gauge to watch for leakage.

        I don’t do well understanding how to make my pictures get all the characters it needs to fit in between http stuff either.

        Here is how they say to do it. But it’s Greek to me too!
        https://www.brickboard.com/GALLERY/images/12168.jpg

        Good luck

        Phil








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          EGR temperature sensor 200 1991


          Phil (Machine Man):
          Thanks again, this time for clarifying the issues I brought up in my first message to you.
          I located the "little black box" (we'll call that black box 1, or BB1). That terminal has lugs on it that are all "hot" because the thick wire feeding the box (as you said) goes directly to the positive battery cable.
          QUESTION: Are you are referring to the red wire going from one of the lugs on BB1 directly to a small black box (we'll call this BB2) directly underneath the "vacuum booster"(VB) ? That box has three other wires attached to it - two whites and another red. I do not know the purpose of that box. Do you know the purpose of that black box? What happens if that (hot) red wire going to BB2 is disconnected? Would that cause a fault code?
          Before attempting to do what you suggested, I followed instructions in the manual to test both the EGR valve and the VB. When I applied vacuum (using a handheld vacuum pump you recommended) to the EGR valve with the engine off, I could hear it moving. When I repeated that at idle, the engine stalled. That means the EGR valve is working. To test the VB, I followed the manual instructions to isolate one of the two wires and grounded that wire which also caused the engine to stumble, but not as definitively as directly applying vacuum to the EGR valve. This confirmed that the vacuum device works OK, or so says the manual.
          I have erased the code and it has not returned - yet. Given these findings, I decided to do no further troubleshooting at this time. My next step is to get the smog check while it is being nice. After that I will return to my troubleshooting. I continue to be concerned that I might damage the VB by trying to pry the plastic cap off the top. I have learned over the years that old plastic, such as the interior trim, can become brittle and break easily.
          Meanwhile I see that there is a new response to this thread which I will study and see what I can learn. Again, thanks for your help. I hope that future users of this forum might benefit from this exchange.

























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            EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

            Hi again, I have been away for a few days.

            Yes there is a wire running from BB1 to two BB2 and if I remember correctly, it powers the headlight relay for your high beams.
            This relay provides a flash feature that can be used anytime whether your ignition switch is on or not.
            It can be used to attract attention to your car if you are alone in a parking lot or want to tell someone where you are parked. This without blowing your horn, that I think, does not work if your ignition switch is off!

            Only the red + wire from the battery to BB1 will reset the the ECU to turn out the CEL.
            If that wire is removed from the spade terminal in BB1, the car, will not do anything as far as starting or running.
            I remember on some of the schematics, it sort of powers the whole car. It powers up the ignition switch through the front door fuse panel.

            From what you are telling me you have made the control system to begin to work by using your vacuum pump.
            You may have clear the restriction wherever it was and that’s why the light is staying out.

            I don’t understand why you are having so much trouble with pulling that plastic cap. I was probably mistaken about there being a metal ring on that valve. Most likely there was a production change from supply vendors.
            I think you might be able to rotate that thin cap back and forth, a wee bit, to prove that it is loose enough but only clipped on there.

            It’s like getting at large dry or wet boogers (rhinotillexis) out of your nose, being patient but diligent! (:-)

            You just need to carefully push in sideways slightly on the cap and get some looseness to one side and gently pry up on the opposite side. There are little fingers that will spread out to release the cap as it rises.
            You will see, It’s no worse than opening a Tupperware lid with wet fingers. (:-)

            Good idea to get it smogged while it’s being nice. Nothing like having a car with the character of dings and noises, let alone a variety of moods! These cars are old enough to collect a few from their PO’s.

            Let’s us know how it goes so we all, as you said, can benefit by learning.

            Phil








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              EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

              Hi Phil. Just read your most recent comments. I'm interested in some of the information you provided. However, one of the issues is off topic from the original thread and I do not want to put it on the Brickboard because it may be confusing and/or misleading to readers following this thread. Would you feel OK sending me an email so we can communicate that way? Here's mine jerryh@san.rr.com . If I do not receive an email back from you, I will go ahead and continue writing in this forum but only what is relevant to the thread.








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                EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

                Ok I'm game!

                Don't stop posting and reading on here. It's us that the advertising people want to snag!

                Phil








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                  EGR temperature sensor 200 1991

                  If you stayed strictly on topic how would I have ever known rhinotillexis wasn't a Central African transportation version of rags to riches?

                  I'm learning all about EGR in late 240s here -- something I know zilch about. Credit me for sending Jerry here to the BB on this one. Credit Jerry for many of the sig lines I post. Just don't blame him for this one.
                  --
                  Art Benstein near Baltimore

                  King Ozymandias of Assyria was running low on cash after years of war with the Hittites. His last great possession was the Star of the Euphrates, the most valuable diamond in the ancient world. Desperate, he went to Croesus, the pawnbroker, to ask for a loan.

                  Croesus said, "I'll give you 100,000 dinars for it".

                  "But I paid a million dinars for it," the King protested. "Don't you know who I am? I am the king!"

                  Croesus replied, "When you wish to pawn a Star, makes no difference who you are."







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