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For MachineMan from Dr. Phil 200 1988

I tried your suggestion of running a yellow wire from the gray connector box on the firewall to the temperature gauge sensor. At first, I thought that your idea was my solution. Ergo, the temperature gauge did not go to hot when the ignition switch was turned on and the engine not running. After some debate, I decided to install the new temperature gauge sensor and the new temperature computer unit sensor. I kept your idea of the bypass yellow wire. I turned the ignition switch to on and the red dashboard lights came on, the fuel gauge indicator moved and the temperature gauge did not move. I turned the switch to start the motor. I heard a click and all the dashboard lights and gauges died. After a few hours of recharging the battery, I tried it again and the same thing happened. Again I recharged the battery, I used the original yellow wiring hookup. I tried to start the motor and I heard a click and again all the dashboard lights and gauged died. Why won't the motor start? I need your counsel.








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    For MachineMan from Dr. Phil 200 1988

    Hi there,
    Interesting that you put my name in the head lines. Guess you wanted my attention! Thanks, I think?

    I don't know how helpful putting in the new wire was but it should have eliminated the harness as an issue.
    There is an electronic temperature compensation board built in to the instrument cluster that goes haywire.
    This causes erratic temperature response on the gage. It stages the heating current to the gage so it only moves to one certain spot until there is a large enough discrepancy to warrant a change instead of seeing a gradual change like a analog system. It didn't or doesn't work reliably after a few or many years of service. In other words for the most part, it was a bad idea!
    The best thing to do with it is go inside the cluster and see if it has been removed. If not remove and add a jumper wire. Place it onto pins, one and three, to bypass any more of its monkey business with it.
    More information is at WWW.cleanflametrap.com.

    The dash temperature gauge will not move up if the engine is cold. Might explain why you did not get a reading on one of your tests after you changed out the sensor and wire.

    The gage will only reach up into the lowest area of the curved band at 120 degrees.
    With a 180 degrees thermostat will be just below horizontal at about 8 to 8:30. It is better to run a 192 thermostat for slightly better fuel economy and emissions. This puts it at 9:00 or about the width of the needle +\-. I prefer the Wahler brand due to being made of brass and are dated to when they were manufactured. Most last upwards to 17 years in my cars and repeat their response at their setting.

    You mentioned a ECT computer ECU sensor change out which is only good if the engine was running poorly. I don't think you needed to do that as it does not effect the cluster gauge.

    Now, I think we have discussed all that can be talked about with the temperature gauge.
    The rest you wrote about is more about power supply from the battery.
    The battery itself might be the main issue here.

    If you have to to keep repeatedly putting it on charge, after such short moments of usage, it's a bad battery.
    A bad battery can be put on a charger and it can and will fool the charger. Some chargers have green lights that trigger falsely into telling you that it is fully charged or shut down into a maintenance mode.
    Bad cells will charge up a superficial voltage within the depleted electrolyte or the plates can be so sulphated beyond reacting with any acid. In other words, the cell or cells cannot contribute amperage capacity through the cells and the loaded down system will fall on its face.
    This is when its just a click and lights go out.

    RStarky posted the next issue that controls letting power out of a good battery. Cables!
    There two ways power gets out of the battery and into the cars various loads.
    One is the tiny wire off the positive post that feeds a junction box on the fender. This then feeds the fuse panel in the drivers door hinge area. You got to have good connection along this route.
    This feeds the ignition switch and the instrument panel.
    If the voltage drops below nine volts most lights will be very dim or go out. Having corrosion or a weak battery brings on this response very quickly.

    The ignition switch controls several functions along with purposely turning of some accessories.
    The ignition switch hooks the starter solenoid to the battery.
    The solenoid switch itself takes quite a bit current to operate it. So much in fact that this is why the accessories get shut off in position three. The blower fan goes off because it draws half of what a fuse on the wire to the fender carries.

    Now from my experience, I know the solenoid can have internal issues of just clicking but not engaging the starter motor. The contact plates inside it just barely does not make up contact. It can be fixed or replaced but it has to be removed.
    You very well can have a problem right inside the solenoid and a low battery helps promote making the solenoids fail.
    If the cables are in good condition on a good battery the "second way power gets out" into the cars starter system has to be through that solenoid Switch!

    Now there is a wire, located up beside that gray connector, that can bypass the whole previous system to roll over the starter motor. This wire will have a flat female spade terminal that can be jumpered to the cars battery positive post.
    This will click the solenoid to close and turn over the engine. You can rapidly test that solenoid until it engages the starter motor or call it dead!
    You will want to verify that the car is in neutral or park before testing the starters function.

    Test again with a known good battery and cables you might get a surprise after taking a step by step approach.

    Phil








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      For MachineMan from Dr. Phil 200 1988

      Hi! How 're you doin'? I'm "On the Road Again"!!! Yeah, you guessed it. I'm living in SC (home of the Repubes).
      I thought that I would touch base with you before I head to downtown Greenville to put smiles on all those SC Belles. Well, I read your last very helpful menu of things to consider. Something stuck in my brain as I started my work on the car and that was the fuse holder (located over the left front fender) for that 25 amp male fuse that feeds the fuse block by the driver's side door. I studied it closely and decided that after nearly 30 years of corrosion, it needed to be rebuilt. I used 2 female spade terminals (10-12), 2 - about 3/4 inch pieces of heat shrinkable tubing and some black electrical tape. Now, before I could start the engine, I had to reconnect all the wires and the tubing (that I had to disconnect to reach under the air intake manifold). Now, the battery has been recharging all night and I turn the key to the acc position and all the red warning lights come on as usual. Now, the big test. I turn the ignition to start the motor and the lights go off and I hear a click again. I then disconnect the positive terminal to the battery and put it on recharge for about 2 hours. Now, I jumped the positive battery cable of the car to my running truck's battery (about 1 year old) and Voila!!! The car started!!! The motor purred like a kitten. The electric window on the driver's side worked like new and the temperature gauge operated like it should. Now, I'm thinking that the 6 year old battery has to be replaced and I can continue singing Joys to Jesus. First thing this morning, I am off to my favorite car parts dealer with old battery "in tow". At the counter, I'm about to pay for the new battery but I asked the lady to check the volts and amps on my old battery. And again, Voila!!! The old battery, was nearly fully charged in volts and amps. Now, I explain to the lady that the positive post has been worn down by resurfacing for fresh metal for about 5 years because I could not find a grounding problem. She said that she had a lead cap in the backroom (no charge) that may solve that problem. The new battery was going to cost $71.00. I did buy a new female positive battery connector for about $2.00. The car is running great!!! I want to thank you for all your helpful ideas!!! They were very good in connecting my neurons.








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        For MachineMan from Dr. Phil 200 1988

        Well hello there!

        I'm glad to hear that Randy and I "double teamed" you into getting the car fixed.

        Two bucks is pretty cheap for a fused lead in connector, let alone a free battery post cap.
        I didn't know that they make a new lead caps for a battery's post. Sounds like you have a gold mine for a parts house. Just like the good 'ole days of grubby parts houses that had a cheap fix for most anything automotive.

        I guess the charger was able to sneak in enough power over time but the post was not letting it out fast enough!
        The lead post must have been cleaned a whole lot.
        For me that could be a sign that the battery is out gassing a lot. This happens near the end of a short abused life or a long enough life with normal lengthy times of sitting in cared for. These are the ones calculated into a manufacturers useful life's warranty.

        Sometimes I think I over write in my posts while trying to paint an overall picture of how things are suppose to be working. Without seeing a cars condition there is a lot, left up to the owner, to think through.
        I'm thankful you stuck with me enough that what you read in deed sunk in and grew into an answer.
        We all need more neurons and the wires to get connected.
        That makes me feel good that you won the finest prize and I hope you singing is appreciated by others.
        I'm sure a ride here or there buys a good audience.
        (:-)
        Phil











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    For MachineMan from Dr. Phil 200 1988

    Have you removed the battery cables and cleaned up the cable ends and the battery posts?

    So with the key on the dash lights will come on. When you try to start the car there is a click and the lights go out? Sounds like a poor connection at the battery posts.

    The connection can supply voltage with a low amperage demand (dash lights), but once you try to start the car the starter needs a lot more amperage and the poor connection at the posts can not meet the demand.

    Try cleaning the cables and battery posts and snugging up the cables.

    Randy








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      For MachineMan from Dr. Phil 200 1988

      Hi. How are you doing? Please read my reply to the MachineMan date moments ago. Your input was very good too and very helpful. To be terse, the problem was the decomposed 25 amp fuse holder over the left front fender. I rebuilt it and Voila!!! A new lead battery cap for the positive pole also helped. Total cost was about $2.00 for a new female battery cable connector which I haven't installed yet. Thanks again for your thoughts. It's Friday night and I'm off to put some smiles on some SC Belles erstwhile I sing praises to our Lord, Jesus. I just love multitasking. Have a great weekend.







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