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Hey guys! Just picked up a 88 240 sedan after being away from Volvo's for about 2 years boy does it feel good to be back. But like all I need to prove myself a bit to this new friend. He is facing me with a problem that no warning lights appear when the key is in the 2 place. So he is not charging the only head way I've made is check for wire on alt they're all there so I tried jumping 12 volts to the exciter wire once I do that my voltage jumps right to 14 and stays there but the battery light works on the dash comes on (thought that generally meant it wasn't charging though my fluke says I have 14v). I have seen the lights on the dash work a few times so I know it's not the bulbs any help helps me thanks boys!
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Hi,
Seems to me you are writing about two's issues. The alternator not charging and no dash warning lamps.
I suggest you look through this link and study the combined instrument section to see how the dash lights get their power. The fuses in the fuse panel get corroded or a ground wire on the cluster could be loose.
http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/volvo/240%20Wiring%20Diagrams/TP31054-1%201987%20240%20Wiring%20Diagrams.pdf
In position two, all the cluster lights go through a bulb light testing. Power not coming from fuses or the ignition switch to the cluster in or out to grounds can cause all to go dark.
The alternator exciter wire gets its power from the ignition switch and that battery light bulb that limits the current to the regulator.
That wire does run out through the gray connector tha Goatman is talking about. The bulb comes on when it see the ground path through the alternator's circuit containing the regulator module.
The lights goes out when the alternator starts putting out almost any voltage to oppose the current path from the bulb. The bulb is an "idiot light" as it does not indicate the amount of current or amount of voltage over the battery resting charge.
The alternator could put out 10 volts and the light might faintly flicker, if you are lucky, it gives you a heads up.
The best choice is to have a voltmeter in the dash and get use to see how it behaves under normal good operation. Loads of the blower fan, seat heaters order rear defroster can also be monitored.
The next choice is to be aware of how bright your headlights stay and that they do not flicker or stay dimmer at some time or another. Loose belts or brush issues can start that issue.
If you are looking, listening and smelling the car will talk to you.
Chewing bubble gum, well, that doesn't count until the ash tray is full! (:-)
Phil
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I should have mentioned none of the gauges work either some times I have seen them flash a few times. But very intresting I will start testing.
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Check the flex fuse on the back of the cluster. Reply or search if this is gibberish.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Engineering says: "Drawing release is lagging."
Engineers meant: Not a single drawing exists.
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Took dash out didn't have the socket to remove steering wheel so couldn't inspect very well but noticed a red/yellow wire just hanging in space. It is a hot wire what is this for?
Thanks!
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You took the dash out? Seriously??
Or are you just calling the instrument panel the dash?
Red/yellow could be several functions; you'd have to be a heck of a lot more specific. A loose red/white wire, when plugged into a cluster without a tachometer destroys the speedometer. But you said red/yellow.
Stay on track. Check the flex fuse. When I said "search" I wasn't thinking you'd remove the dash and do a physical search. Thinking more like "keyword search."
The power goes into the cluster on the speedometer plug, and it goes through the speedometer and the fuse before it powers the warning lights, temp and fuel gauges. Does the speedometer work?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Engineering says: "Risk is high, but acceptable."
Engineers meant: 100 to 1 odds, or with 10 times the budget and 10 times the manpower, we may
have a 50/50 chance.
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Intrusment cluster sorry... when I bought the car I saw everything work briefly however havnt since it since. Had a un pluses male spade on the cluster hooked the red yellow to it to see if anything happens however I un plugged it. What kind of voltage should I see at the exciter wire?
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Does your speedometer work?
Has the warning light or gauge situation changed since your first post?
Have you checked the flex fuse on the cluster?
Is your phone running the latest operating system?
"What kind of voltage should I see at the exciter wire?"
Depends.
When it is properly wired and all is working, you should see about ~1.4V on it key on engine stalled. And about 13.5V with it running.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Engineering says: "Serious, but not insurmountable, problems."
Engineers meant: It will take a miracle. God should be the program manager.
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Okay my status has not changed since my original post. My exciter wire has 0v at acc. Once the car is running I still have 0v.... I use my power probe to add 12v directly to the exciter post and then I will have 13.5-14v. This will also cause my battery light on the cluster to turn on even though the battery is being charged according to my volt meter. Have not been able to check flex fuse as I couldn't get my steering wheel off tonight will try tommorow if the snow isn't to heavy in CT. Thank you very much for the help I sincerely appreciate it and hope to be able to help you some time! I try all suggestions!!
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Hi guy,
Did you see my post with the link to getting the wiring diagrams for the '87 model? It is close enough to to work for your car.
If you can get to around page 58 you can see how the cluster gets power. The red lines will show how it comes from the ignition switch and to the clip on the speedometer Art mentions. The red arrows show the direction of current flow with the engine not running.
There is a tiny squiggle right at that point that touch onto the voltage regulator "M." It is my guess that that squiggle in the tiny box might be the clusters personal fuse. So you can see where Art points to why the gauges are not working.
The best way to learn how to read schematics or diagrams is to have a need to know and a fix happens. You'll get that feeling that you won the lottery with a minimum investment.
That connector can get loose on the circuit board of the speedometer but I imagine the power takes off from there before the wire node. If only the speedometer stop reading out the speed a little thicker film of solder onto the board can restore that connection.
The fuse link that Art is talking about looks like a circuit trace film going over the top of the speedometer head. It is held down by two screws that have to be secure. It's about two to three inches long.
As Art said, there is no need to pop the steering wheel off. You just need to have wheel pointed straight ahead so the upper flat half is not blocking the cluster so you can shift it out on end enough to unplug the right hand side sockets.
Again there has to a good light bulb in the socket of the "battery light" of the cluster. The break is on the Board or the power or ground connection to the whole she-bang.
May the force of tonight's storm go around you all in the Northeast.
Phil
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Hello took the cluster out today flex fuse is in tact entire backing seem clean and functional. Next step is to check gray electrical connect in engine bay?
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I have trouble reading diagrams but where do the warning light ground? Do they all ground out at the alternator?
Thanks
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No the speedo does not work nor does the fuel temp and I don't believe the clock works. I believe there to be a battery drain as well that is maybe connected?
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So the speedometer doesn't work.
That's a good clue. The power for the warning lights and gauges comes through the speedometer connector, that L-shaped plug. It is the red/black wire; comes right from the ignition switch.
With the cluster out, check with your test light (something that draws a little more current than a multimeter) for power on that red/black wire at the pins. Look in the end of this card-edge connector to be sure the connector has enough tension to squeeze on the circuit board fingers. You can open it up and re-tension it if necessary.
On the cluster itself, make sure someone didn't have the speedometer out for "re-calibrating the milage" or fixing the odometer gear, and then didn't get it properly seated in its connectors. You'll have to unscrew it.
Don't be tempted to add solder to the PC fingers to improve the connection at the L-shaped plug. This is a solution which has about a 90-day life because of the soft metal. It will actually make things worse, but some will have to learn that by experience.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
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Hello ran your test for continuity step by step on my cluster every checks out to be okay I will run out to check the connected at the car.
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Just checked speedo plug in car the 3 pack in the L shaped connector. The black and red wire tested at 11.4 volts the black was a ground and the blue wire did nothing.
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So, are you stuck now?
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
What's the fastest liquid on earth? Milk, because it's pasteurized before you see it.
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My plan is to check the gray box again for continuity through it next since I know I have power coming into my cluster and out of it. How ever I don't understand why my parking brake light wouldn't be coming on unless my entire cluster wasn't getting power. The lights to illuminate the cluster work but if I'm reading diagrams correctly I believe them to be on a separate circuit than my warning lights.
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Your plan might provide you a break from working inside the car, so you can experience the polar winds under the hood, but won't get you any closer to fixing the power to the warning lights, speedometer, fuel and temp gauges.
You didn't use a test light to check the power at the red/black wire, you used your DMM. You said you had continuity from in to out on the cluster, but didn't describe your methods. I'm transmitting here as clearly as I can, but the reception is very poor.
Maybe you should buy a 27mm deep socket and pull the steering wheel. Then you can trace the voltage with the cluster installed. This may be right for you. :)
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"The greatest thing about the internet, is that you can quote something and totally make up the source." - George Washington.
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I had thought of that could be a bad connection at the L socket I have picked up on forums those are known to be faulty. I like your plan I can get a deep socket on my lunch break today and test later. Where would I check on the circuit board that power was indeed being transferred through properly?
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With the key on, check at the points (1-7) I illustrated in the photo of the back of the cluster I posted yesterday. This will be awkward even with the wheel out of your way, but without finding the break with the ohmmeter, you're only option short of swapping parts.
Once you find where the power stops, you can compare the foil side photo to the component side photo to see where the break might be. History says it is normally at the flex fuse -- a poor connection under the screw -- or at the L connector in unmolested cars. But previous repair attempts will complicate the guessing to the point you just have to trace it for yourself.
I can tell you, since my daughter bought me that 27mm socket 17 years ago I've not used it for anything other than the nut behind the wheel.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Q: What would you call a power failure?
A: A current event.
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Hello art I plugged in the cluster and tested everything. Everything checked out okay so I hooked it up to the round harness and it worked maybe something was loose or I did clean the flex fuse a bit. Only thing that's not on is the oil light I've never seen that though I can test that at the bulb I'll figure that out. Hank you very much I appreciate all the help.
-Mackenzie
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Hi Mackenzie,
You might feel progress, but I think you knew all along it was a loose connection, as you mentioned it did work OK at one point before. I hope you wiggled wires before you buttoned up the cluster, because intermittent troubles are indeed the most vexing.
The oil pressure switch next to the alternator is normally closed. That is, it performs the grounding of the oil warning light, which should go out when you have about 7 pounds oil pressure. Often the wire is just loose or broken down there. Sometimes it is chewed up where it goes underneath the crank pulley. And on some more rare occasions, the sender needs replacement. Hope you have oil pressure!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Two antennas met on a roof, fell in love and got married. The ceremony wasn't much, but the reception was excellent.
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Your responses are helpful. I had no idea you were taking the steering wheel off to get at the cluster. No need! There are no dumb questions, but you gotta answer mine or we are not having a conversation.
There's a fairly good sequence of pictures showing how the cluster is removed in here beginning with this one. It just so happens this is a description of how to remove the dash -- the entire dash. But if you skip to this picture, you can see how easily you can pull the cluster. http://cleanflametrap.com/dash.html
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Engineering says: "Not well defined."
Engineers meant: Nobody has thought about it.
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Hi,
The bulkhead harness connector on this model devils. If it has failed, bypass the conductor using new wire, anti-abrasion covering, and crimp-insulated 3M blade disconnect terminals. Its shape is a grayish block at the firewall.
Goatman
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