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Hi All,
I want to share the story. The past months, I heard the popping noises. Yes, it was annoying.
Here are a few things that I look.
Strut
Strut bearing (For a second, I thought maybe Kitty was right)
Brake hardware
IPD antisway bar bushing
Steering rack
Today, I finally found the problem and fixed the issue. After months of looking only at the front of the car, I decided to take off the rear wheel. The brake pad shim got buckled. It needed a new set of brake pads.
It's amazing how the sound travels, in million years, I would have never thought that sound was coming from the rear.
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Hi All,
At last, we have found the problem! The rear bushing nut was loose. It was so loose that I can turn the nut with my fingers. I tightened it back. There is no more popping noise! I am sure I need to replace all the bushings soon.
I really want to thank all of you for helping. It's about time. :) Thank you and thank you.
I took a video but I don't think you can hear the popping noise. So I am not uploading it.
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I'm happy for you too SB! Getting back that peaceful drive!
Thanks for updating us!
Regards,
Amarin.
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Thanks Amarin!!! I look forward to my routine commuting tomorrow. Yes, it will be peaceful. As always, thank you for your help!!!
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Thank goodness!
That picture is the box I was talking about Steve. You see the bolts that hold it to the frame in the background. I'm glad there were no cracks in it.
That nut should have to be tight on the stud while turning it down the threads or it will probably loosen on you again, mine did twice.
I'm suspicious something was wrong in the manufacturing of the stud threads or the nuts on these lower arms. Once loosened they don't go back together right.
I'm Happy for you and me because I was really getting bummed ( as to what in the world this could be) and that it did not show itself sooner to you.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Why does this happen only on the driver side?
I hit a large crater while back!
Many thanks. I don't think I could have done this without you guys! As always, thank you.
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Hi Steve
I do not have any good reasons why it only happens on the drivers side.
I tried to blame it on "Sven the Torquer." Someone claimed that he is a large swede with really big arms on the assembly line. He also does the engines starter bolts that are just to his right on the left side of the car.
I Think you did mentioned that you could not get the strut springs to tilt out on the left side when you replaced the struts. My right side, that I did first, swung down without any issue so I knew the left one was being weird as they should be symmetrical in clearances.
The left lower arm would not push down far enough so I loosen the rear and front nut? From that moment on I could not keep the rear one tight and it would thump over a slight bump to remind me.
Ifbinever donanother car I will study the idea of loosening the rear box from the frame and let it fall and rotate.
Why the threads are messed up might be from the manufacture or the strain from Mr. Big Arms ... Sven. Just guessing.
Enjoy your commute in the morning. That's a heck of a name for a bridge. It must be a trip in itself to get and give directions back there.
I can only guess of what other kind of words described that pot hole besides a crater. (:-)
Phil
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Hi guys,
Shall I use blue loctite?
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Hi Steve,
I guess you could try "Loctite" but from what I saw of my threads, they were far from any thread clearance resin filler.
I actually thought about tack welding it with my MIG welder. Just a spot or tad on the topside of the nut to create a stop blob.
After thinking that over twice, as it a large machine I have to roll around, it was easier to mash up the nuts hex dimension into an oval. I dinged up threads to make it back into an interference fit and wound it back on.
Actually my studs threads, on the arm, were so tapered I still could spin it on through the body of nut before the stud got large enough to start tightening it up any. About a half inch from bottom it needed a wrench to the reach the bottom.
The 1/16" thin washer,o I added on, just made sure I would not run out of threads and was pulling the stud.
The span length dimensions for fit up on the frame are and were really close. So close in fact, it probably necessitated Sven to strong arm it on to get things to pinch.
It is mentioned in the manuals to tighten up the trailing arm bushings while the car is on the ground as to lock the rubber in "less of a twist" than if the rear axle was hanging suspended.
Maybe this is why, when we changed our struts, the left lower arm would NOT fall down far enough to clear the fender well.
It seems, The bushings, are tighten up a liitle higher than the right side by a few degrees or the rubber was stiffer because of less curb or driveway approaches to hit.
Maybe in other countries, with opposite side driving roads, its the other way around on their cars? I bet it goes unnoticed over there because there are less right hand drive cars made.
Anyway, that was my solution and I'm not the greatest fan of Locitie thread lockers.
First of all the parts have to be super clean and sometimes a primer is required. If you read the paperwork it has conditions like shelf life and other disclaimers in case it doesn't work.
Maybe good enough for innocent homeowners to believe in.
There is better stuff! I like https://www.vibra-tite.com/product-category/threadlockers/.
I had some as a free sample from one of my trade shows back when I was an instructor. I kept it for years in its liitle square glass bottle. I notice that it still comes that way, wow, 30+ years!
It had no shelf life and the tack was reusable it said back then.
I have noticed that the Manufactures use it or something like it today a whole lot. It's most likely it's that colored dot or patch you see on their fasteners.
There are nylon products using captured discs or "Nyloc" nuts. I have placed nylon pellet plugs into the sides of bolt threads in years past for internal threads.
That may have been an idea or a precursor to the liquids of today.... It was all about the same time.
Most of these are termed a one time use, but in my experience, if it's going back on or in, the same thread, they still conform and remove play or clearances, of which, deaden the vibration within and help maintain fastener stretch. The reason why "Vibra-tite" makes sense to me. The Locking bit, not so much. (:-)
For all I know they may make some stuff for Loctite. They repackage lots of stuff in small packages for the big bucks! As Trump said, its all about branding!
Of course, there are "many many"types of mechanically impinged fasteners. You may have seen these where the side or face is struck or impinged with a dent. Some nuts have their topside made smaller on the inside with slots cut in the top for expansion that grip on the threads.
Let's us know if you do anything or need too later on.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
I tightened the nut and it came loose for the 2nd time.
I bought a loctite tube while back. I cleaned the mating area with brake cleaner. I tightened it with all my wheels on the ground. I tightened until I had a cramp on my leg, that's tight.
Let's see how long this will stick. Happy Friday. As always, thank you.
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Keep "tabs" on it by adding a dollop of paint, to see if it is really backing out of the threads, or the sleeve is compressing. Use that bottle of touch-up paint you found in the glove box, or someone's fingernail paint.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Lol has gone from meaning, "laugh out loud" to "I have nothing else to say".
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Hi guys,
I put some blue loctite. It's holding up so far. As always, thank you.
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Hi All,
At last, I have found the problem. It turns out to be bad Volvo brake pads. They came with metal shims glued in place. Maybe it's rubbing against the brake pad pins during braking.
I had enough torture for 6 months. I will get a replacement set thru FCP. Time like this, I am glad that I am buying most of parts from them.
As always, thank you.
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Hi there Steve,
I have had good luck with PBR and RAYBESTOS brands. I stay away from full metallic and go semi-metallic. The newer ceramic types are getting very popular but I always worry about excessive rotor wear. Pads are easier to change and get than some well made rotors.
I have seen some blue box or Volvo OEM parts that were made in India or China.
Rusty, at RPR, was having issues with them coming in the blue boxes before he closed his doors a few years back.
I have never purchased things from FCP. I will have to research their site as I have no opinion with them.
IPD can be competitive, at times, on high volume items, otherwise, they shake with modification goodies for those in that scene.
I listened to the video sounds and reviewed the photos of the right front side caliper pads. I know the video is of the left but that's because you have very short arms or not so vain to have a selfie rod, for a right side drive video production! (:-) Six seconds of sweet ugliness.
I have seen those pads before, with the heavy bevel cuts on the ends, in junkyards. I don't know who made those pads. They have some serious or radically over done bevels, IMHO, that reduces the pads total surface contact area.
I don't know if it's an optical allusion or not in the photo but the pad material seems thicker at the top than the bottom.
The only way I can see the pads doing something in a clunk or knock, is them getting wedged and then unlocking and that making the clunk noise from the "bound up" release.
If it were me, I would scrap those pads as well!
There is a lot of material still on the pads and I wonder, how in the world, one end could wear the ends so much and yet the overall thickness still be there? Maybe sticking Pistons would be a possibility but then again, those are just plain weird pads. From the "get go" their not for me to be using.
Another thought of possibles for the clunk. It is a pretty heavy duty sound for movement of the pads alone on two pins. I can understand why you did the disconnecting of the sway arm link you did.
I just want to ask what is the condition of your rear lower "A" arm bushing or the nut being tight on both sides?
What about any ball joints? Have you tried the stop in a tight turn in either direction?
Another thing to ponder is the struts cartridge nut that might be loose or not seated down on the cartridge in the tube.
Looking forward to an update number three!
Phil
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Hi Phil,
The ugly noise has come back in 5 days. It sounds like grinding your iron teeth as I press the brake pedal.
I rebuilt the front end last spring. I replaced new struts, strut mounts, BJ, outer tie rod, repack the front wheel bearings, sway bar end links, new disc rotors, new pads & brake pads hardware. The IPD anti-sway bar bushings have worn. I grease them for now.
The condition of front arm bushings is unknown. How do I check? With a long screwdriver? I am guessing that driver side bushings are not in good shape since I had a difficult time putting back the strut assembly into the tower. The front driver side tire wears out much fast than the other three. I haven't done an alignment service since the front end rebuilt. But then again, this car is 30 years old.
Have you tried the stop in a tight turn in either direction?
Yes, it makes the same noise.
Sometimes, I have fun on the twisty roads like when I am on the Jackie Robinson Parkway. The car runs well. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. :)
As always, thank you.
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Ok, I got it, this is update number three.
I think you have changed all the parts to rebuild the front end except the lower arm. So this, to me, makes sense that it is your last resort to finding the thump or pop.
I notice the same problem on my '91 about getting the whole assembly down far enough to clear the fender. The arm would not drop or swing down like it did on the right side.
I loosen the nuts holding arm in place so it would swivel down.
After that I got a thump going over bumps from that left side. I found that the rear bushings nut was working loose.
They use an interference nut on that stud that goes through the bushing. Apparently once it was loosen it would no longer stay tight as it loosen on me twice.
I then removed the whole box that contains the bushing from the frame to inspect the goodies in there. The bushing was fine but stud threads on the arm appeared undersized to me. It was not in great shape in the needed "V form." This was partially due to the way the nuts threads screwed on to them in the first place.
Instead of replacing the complete lower arm for the bad stud threads I squeezed the nut and punch the hell out of flats above the threads of the nut to make it tighten up on the threads themselves. Actually, I may have impinged the threads on both mating parts some.
The very first part of the studs thread were so undersized I believe I could throw the nut on.
I also noticed that the nuts face was narrow and the length of the studs threads could possible bottom out right at the point that was needed to clamp the the bushing.
After measuring things out the fix was to add a thin washer under the nut.
I determined that there was as little as a 1/16" of play "that could develop" to the assembly. This allows the whole arm to traverse back and forth in the bushings no matter how much either was tightened.
It was also my conclusion that I was like "Eltherid the Unready" in losing a match with the arms of "Sven the Torquer" from the factory. He is said to be the one that puts in our upper starter bolts.
I did use a two long "combination" wrenches hooked onto one another to get more leverage though.
So far it's been two years with no issues.
Only the left tire.....You might need a camber alignment, huh?
You might try a cardboard template of the other side pocket flipped over to the driver side to start with. It creates a mirror image.
What about the upper rubber mount? Does it looked bulged upward?
So take what you can from my experience and come up with your plan of attack.
Back at you, Ha Ha, Steve! (:-)
Good luck
Phil
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Hi Phil,
It sounds very convincing. Sigh, those bushings job will probably kill me...
How about this? I am going to jack up the car, leave front driver wheel to hang for 5-10 minutes. Drop the car and I will report back if the noise comes back in 5 days or even earlier.
I didn't think it was the bushings because I don't hear it when it goes over bumps & craters. The bushings looks good from the outside, it's centered in relation to metal sleeves and there is no crack.
"What about the upper rubber mount? Does it looked bulged upward?"
Are we talking strut mount? No, it's not bulging or cracked. When I bought this car, it had a major crack, it made a clunking noise when it went over bumps. I drove it like that for a long time. I didn't know what a strut mount was 5 years ago. :)
Ah,one more information. As of today, it has 310,000 miles. The actual mileage is unknown.
As always, thank you.
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Hi Phil,
It's still making the noise. I have listed the things that possibly paused the noise for 5 days. Well, minus a.
a. jack up the car
b. remove the wheel
c. remove brake pad hardware
d. retract the piston
e. change brake pads
f. pumping brake
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I agree it sounds convincing, IF your front end makes a thump noise going over bumps or into holes.
I keep forgetting that you say, "it is when I apply the brakes" and turns make no difference.
So, you are changing the pads back and forth, I hope you have lost those deeply angled pads.
Have you tried a completely different brand of pads and scuffed the rotor clean with a sanding flap wheel. I'm sure you have used a brake cleaner spray. Everyone loves that smell, DON'T YoooU!!
What you are describing by a grinding noise, of which, in most cases, has to be a rotation noise. For me a grinding noise that stops and starts continuously is a reciprocating noise or a severely warped type of repetition when it comes to brakes.
I only turn a rotors if I see colored or shiner spots that say "this is a hard area" or real deep grooving. Deep, being a lot more than just a few thousandths deep too.
If you have some warpage or run out, turning them can make them worse to have it again, as they will be thinner. Turning them nowadays cost about one third of a new rotor so I factor that in.
You said the rotors were recently replaced. Could they need to be turned now a little? Do you think they are a decent grade rotor since they have some miles?
What you say or have a picture?
I also use a angle grinder to remove any lips from the rotor that stick up above the plane of being a flat disc.
These appear mostly on the outer rim of the rotor after many miles of running. They can keep a new set of pads from seating right away.
I can say I had a problem with a set of pads. They had gotten worn only about halfway and would make a groan or even a howling sound vibrating through the front of the car.
They seem to glaze right back up after a cleaning I would do.
My term Cleaning means sanding the pads with the coarsest grit I have and cleaning the rotor and leaving a shiny swirl.
I ended up just giving up and tossing them.
This was many many years ago and as best I can remember, they were a Napa boxed pad. This was even before pad warranties. I wrote it off as the brands recipe of materials in the mix.
I have not heard of calipers doing anything close to this except when halves are a mismatch.
You might want to check the for those dimples to be matching.
Maybe you have a very special breed of caliper? (:-) Nah just kidding.
Sure wish I could help more but I'm stumped or just don't know which way to jump.(:-)
Phil
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Hi SB,
I've read the threads and watched the video. No I don't have any 240 but would like to be of help too.
At first I thought it sounded like loose upper strut mounting as the noise happens during braking and when the front end dives down a bit. But when I read about your last clue (e) car must be in gear I thought it could be chassis noise instead. Being in gear could make you brake harder than in neutral. This causes more sudden weight shifting to the front. Braking during reverse causes weight shifting to the back so there is no noise. Check your front cross-member bolts.
Regards,
Amarin.
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Hi Amarin,
Are those cross-member bolts have backing nuts behind? As always, thank you.
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Nope. Those long bolts have their nuts welded in the crossmember itself. Just check if the bolts are tight. Four of them, two on each side. Torque is around 70 ft lb if I remember correctly.
Regards,
Amarin.
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Hi Amarin,
I didn't use a torque wrench but it seems very tight. I might spray PB blaster and give another try.
After the attempt, there is still noise. As always, thank you.
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Hi Admir,
I like your thinking since there may have been that Rock involved.
Creaking metal sound would fit right in with a body twist with that cross member. Is a pretty sturdy piece of metal like the front arm bushing box but these things are not invincible.
He keeps thing the noise is from the left wheel.
Is there anyway to hurt the strut tower itself? I know that car sport braces to the firewall for them, so are they really that weak?
Phil
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My shoot from the hip diagnosis: Control arm rear bushing. As you already discussed.
Several ways: Hammer-installed bushing sleeve loose in the cup. Rubber broken in the bushing. Loose nut like you mentioned.
Just wanted to check in. The bluetooth multi-microphone idea is something I think about a lot. I try to get my sweetheart to trace the origin of rattles as we drive, but that is about as frustrating as I recall brake bleeding was 40 years ago.
Sounds
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Mother Superior called all the nuns together and said to them, 'I must tell you all something. We have a case of gonorrhea in the convent.' 'Thank God,' said an elderly nun at the back. 'I'm so tired of chardonay.
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Ok Steve now you went and done it.
I have read that list of things under the picture and now my face is really screwed up. Trust me, my face didn't look so good this morning in the mirror. Even with combing what little hair I have left it didn't help me figure this out.
I have to say that rotor show little wear and the brakes pads look normal to me for 14k of town driving. The pads are caking a little bit but that's expected.
Overall I don't see an issue with the brakes. I would suggest you back the pads back a tiny bit to free the rotor to turn. I would take a steel hammer and tap the rotor to check for it to ring evenly as I turned it. Tap both the front and back parts. This might tell us if there is a crack in the casted webs between the two surfaces. I have never had the displeasure of ever finding one but if it was ever dropped it could happen.
It's the only way I can see the rotor creating any "cracked" metal sound that goes away when the brakes bind it tight enough.
Maybe the brake booster is moving on the firewall. Check for a crack in the sheet metal around there. I have heard a clutch cable can crack the wall near there.
Now what really twisted my lips was the part that it doesn't do it backing up, not in neutral but under power?
Now that last one point us back towards the drive wheel. This was where you started the thread.
Those rear pads looked ugly to me back then in the earlier pictures.
What did you do back there for pads?
You might want to investigate the rear again.
Were you the one that hit something in the road and punctured a tire? I saw a marked trailing arm in a picture?
Apparently that rock was fairly tall which made for a fairly good sized base for it to sit on.
Was this in the August/September time frame and this noise did it start then or in October sometime? I know rocks can be rather determental at velocity. Just ask any catapult operator in your local neighborhood, if you have some castles There. (:-)
As far as tackling the bushing in the front ARM it's not so hard. Try only unbolting the box from the frame after loosening the nut inside first. It all comes apart. The ARM just hangs there extended. Wiggle and inspect the box on the stud for a cracked tab or fold.
I had a thought about you duct taping your cell phone to either under side fender area and video them with sound.
There are alternatives:
You know they make a wireless microphone (4) set for some bucks. The microphones can be mounted under a car with separate channels for detection. I heard about these on a Car Talk show because Tom got tired of being tied to the car.
You might to go visit Ray's shop, it's near you. He probably has more time without the show going on now and might have them or another young volunteer in the shop. (:-)
Ok, my face is smoother now. I can go into town since Halloween is over the people will just think I didn't get enough candy for best costume.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
" I would take a steel hammer and tap the rotor to check for it to ring evenly as I turned it. Tap both the front and back parts. This might tell us if there is a crack in the casted webs between the two surfaces. "
I will do this next weekend. However, the problem persisted prior to changing to new set.
--
" Maybe the brake booster is moving on the firewall. Check for a crack in the sheet metal around there. I have heard a clutch cable can crack the wall near there."
I will look this too. How about brake master cylinder spring going bad? Or brake booster spring?
--
" Those rear pads looked ugly to me back then in the earlier pictures."
I forgot to change the pads. Also, the metal shim was making a contact with brake caliper.
--
" Were you the one that hit something in the road and punctured a tire? I saw a marked trailing arm in a picture?
Apparently that rock was fairly tall which made for a fairly good sized base for it to sit on."
The problem persisted prior to this incident.
--
" As far as tackling the bushing in the front ARM it's not so hard. Try only unbolting the box from the frame after loosening the nut inside first. It all comes apart. The ARM just hangs there extended. Wiggle and inspect the box on the stud for a cracked tab or fold."
OK, I am lost here. What do you mean by "box"?
Thank you as always.
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Hi All,
I spoke to soon. Go figure. Sigh...
Here is what I know.
A. It's coming from the front driver side.
B. It make the noise when it's going forward. There is no noise when I put the car in reverse.
C. I took off the driver side sway bar end link, drove around the block & still made the same noise.
D. On the video, it sounds dull but it has more higher pitch like twisting something sort of thing...
E. It makes noise when I step on the brake. The noise doesn't continue like screeching.
I didn't put the brake pad shims, could that be an issue? I am not sure/ don't remember if a blue box came with shims...
http://s1170.photobucket.com/user/87_flying_brick/media/brake/20161003_184227_zpsvefx8xkz.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
As always, thank you.
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Thu Aug 25 22:54 CST 2016 [ RELATED]
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Sweed
a few years ago as I was leaving for a weekend in the MD mts, I heard a - thunk thunk thunnk... as I braked for traffic on I 70 in Frederick.
Not wanting to rick a Mountain failure, I bailed and went back to the home base.
What I found was almost exactly ...totally worn rear pad....
240's Warn You in advance
Love them and they will Love You back
Trust in the Steel.
LOL
Cheers
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That's strange, "thunk thunk thunk" was a worn pad? The rotor that bad?
I got a little further on 70 before a metal on metal rear pad woke me. To Ohio. But the sound was the typical scraping, dragging sound reflected from the guardrail and other cars while idling through the rest stop parking lot.
Decided to continue on and fix it in Illinois. The noise did make the trip less enjoyable.
Lesson learned was to check your rear jack supports. The car had been to a tire shop or two while in PO's custody, and I think their lift crushed over the ears through which the bar needed for the wheel-changing jack passes. This meant I could not get that rear wheel off of the ground until I bought a service jack. Make sure the jack in the trunk can fit the jack points before thinking you have a usable spare.
Pad was worn prematurely because its brother's piston was stuck making the outer do all the work.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?
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Hi Art and Charles,
That hideous grinding noise made me to look in the rear.
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Hi Kitty,
I am sorry for late reply. I have one 1987 240 wagon as a daily car & 1993 240 wagon as a part car.
--
About 2-3 weeks ago, I thought about you after seeing a bunch of fresh seaweeds washed up on the beach. It's the Hemstead beach in Long Island, I went for a dip after work.
How is your wrist? These seaweeds are probably more organic and fresh than a gourmet store like Citarella.
https://www.citarella.com/
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Hi Baklava,
Exterior mounted cabin air filter? On your 240? Where?
Hope all's aces and eights.
I applied for a gig at Wex in South Portland ME sometime ago, as I'd already worked in payment systems. Nope.
You're at work now? You can read and post to the BB, as our Uncle Art does, too, during weekday daylight hours?
I'm a little suspect of most anything that comes out the ocean. In the Hatlantic (Atlantic)? (Perpetual crude oil from the gulf, the endless Mississippi sewer effluent to the gulf, the radioactive Pacific). Well, there is the Salmon from a can, yet that comes from Hatlaska (Alaska). Else, I'd like to nom nom nom up some sushi. Is dilution a pollution solution?
I was a little confused. With your popping sound. I guess you could not hear whether rear or front with them rear brake pads. You put like 30k annually on your 240, yeah, IIRC? Yet you replaced the calipers all around, and some instances replaced them twice?
The last gig was all stupid, fascist, yet dysfunctional. I ended it 16 dayze ago. Your in the farm barn, sucking up seed coating airborne dust. After 15 minutes, part of your face and mouth are numb.
The manager told me, who never replied to emails (as with the rest of the group), and who lead through and by implication, verbally, only:
- Don't make it (the doc) beautiful
- Make it (the doc) beautiful
- You have a template? (authored in Word 2007 using a template I brought with me and revised)
- It's too wordy. More pictures.
Though I did chase after them in-person. In-person misinformation.
CAD models and drawings wrong. BOMs wrong. Low-voltage DC power schematics wrong. Yet the level IV electrical engineer lies to my face the symbols used means something else.
I have no portfolio samples, tho. The huge surveillance cameras everywhere. A facilities guy said, "Worry about the cameras and microphones you can't see."
Manufacturing sux. Wrist are okay. Shoulder pain, yet have dislocated both several times. Rugby and whisky and gin don't mix.
Want to go to CO or back to WA. MO-state SUX as does the Midwest. To Finland!
Thank you.
MacDuff.
--
Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert. 
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Hi Kitty,
Yes, I put 30K per annually.
Yes, I replaced all four calipers. The front driver side and rear passenger have been replaced again.
Exterior mounted cabin air filter.
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1627885/220/240/260/280/re_update_progress_5_final_installation.html
I am confused too but the sound is gone for now. I will let you know if it comes back. All along, I thought it could be a bad strut bearing or steering rack...
So where do get your seafood fix? A kitty has to eat seafood. :)
As always, thank you.
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Thanks for the hint!
Kinda like water leaks.. often source is aways off from where you might think!
😊
--
"Do you think that's air you're breathing now'? (The Matrix 1999) '94 940T (463K+), 92 245 (300K+), 90 740 (148k)
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Hi Andrew,
My bad. I jumped into a conclusion to soon.
As always, thank you.
PS, I like your white Cadillac. Enjoy the ride.
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