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Yesterday, I drove my V90 down to the grocery store to buy a few incidentals -- it ran just fine, same as it always does. Went to start the car after returning from the store and zip. Nothing.
Well, not entirely nothing. At first, it acted like it wanted to start. It caught for a second, then shuddered and died. The first couple of times I tried to start it, it did the same. Then it would no longer catch for a second. And when I left the starter crank for more than a couple of seconds, suddenly the engine would begin to shudder rather severely. I've never run across this before. Images of bending valves began to dance through my head, since the car's just now ticked over the mileage point where it's time for a new timing belt (70,000 mile interval). After several more attempts to start the car, where it would shudder strongly after a couple seconds of cranking, this symptom stopped. The engine cranked in a more or less normal fashion. But just wouldn't start.
So today, I removed the timing belt cover, expecting to see the alignment marks askew, but fortunately all three are still properly aligned. And the belt is still in excellent condition. So, I breathed a big sigh of relief over that, at least.
So, what else are some likely areas to look? I haven't checked for spark yet. I'm not gonna blow a coil pack or anything checking for spark am I? What about the crank sensor (I assume this car has one)? Any way to check to see if this is the problem? Fuel pump, maybe?
I'm really curious why it vibrated so severely when trying to start it, only to have it just disappear. Any ideas what might have caused that?
Any help you can provide will be most appreciated. I'm hoping I can fix this myself. Else I'm looking at having it towed to the shop and pay those guys like $95 an hour. Plus parts.
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There are two relays in the circuit that powers the fuel pump. Relay 2/32 is the one you've found in the box underhood and is called the Fuel System Main Relay. It feeds power to the actual fuel pump relay through fuse 11B/4. That fuse is located in that underhood relay/fuse box, and is the 4th one from the rear of the car in the row closest to the relays. Check it. The relay also powers the ignition system, and a lot of other components.
The fuel pump relay 2/23 is located in the panel at the left end of the dashboard and is the middle one of the three relays in there. Open the driver's door to see the panel cover.
If you pull that relay and probe the slot with your voltmeter where its "30" terminal plugs in you should see 12V when you crank the engine. If so, relay 2/32 is working, and fuse 11B/4 is OK.
To check for 12V supplied by 2/23 to the pump there is a small connector in the trunk (probably under carpet and panels at left side) which has only four wires, 2 Black and 2 Pink. The pink is the 12V feed from relay 2/23, so probe it with the voltmeter while cranking.
Of course a fuel pressure gauge could sidestep all the electrical investigation, but they're hard to find outside of a pro shop.
--
Bob: Son's XC70, my 83 244DL, 89 745 (Chev LT-1 V8), 98 S90 (recently sold) and 2010 XC60. Also '77 MGB and four old motorcycles
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Okay, in addition to the questions I had in my previous post (still waiting for a response), I ran across something else when doing a search of the messages here. I ran across a comment by one member who stated that if the ignition system develops a problem (not sure exactly what problem it would be), the system disables the fuel pump relays. So it would appear that I might possibly need to troubleshoot my ignition system as well? I suppose the best way to start would be to pull a plug and test it for spark, grounding it against the head?
If you'd care to comment further on my other questions in the previous post, I'd appreciate it.
And if you have any pointers as to the best way to remove a relay from the fuse box that is located at the end of the dash on the driver's side, without destroying the relay, I'd be happy to read how you go about doing it. I'm afraid I'll end up destroying mine in order to get it out.
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The ignition system sends a signal to the ECU that the engine is rotating, and the ECU then enables the fuel pump via the FP relay. If you crash and the engine stops, the fuel pumps stop.
I have pulled the relays by wiggling them while exerting a steady pull. They have been in there a long time and there may be some "corrosion welding" of the pins to the relay board.
--
Bob: Son's XC70, my 83 244DL, 89 745 (Chev LT-1 V8), 98 S90 (recently sold) and 2010 XC60. Also '77 MGB and four old motorcycles
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Thanks for the tip. I'll try wiggling it. I'm pretty confident that it's working, though, since, with the cover removed, I can see the little solenoid inside operating when I turn the key.
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Sorry it's taken so long to get back with you with my results. Things have been busy around here and, since my wife is using my car to get to work (and I work from home), the pressure has been off to some extent. But still, I need to get this car running.
OK, I followed your directions to a point. I have some questions also. I checked the fuse you mentioned and it's ok. I tried to check the voltage at the fuel pump relay at the end of the dashboard, but ran into some problems. The relays are extremely tight in their sockets. When I tried to remove the fuel pump relay, I actually pulled the cover off the relay, exposing its coils and contacts. All was not lost, I felt, because I was able to watch the relay work as I turned the key and then cranked the engine. It makes momentary contact when the ignition switch is turned on and then full contact when cranking the engine.
I'm curious -- is there such a thing as a relay puller? I wonder how else one removes them without destroying them, especially those in tight confines.
Since this car is a wagon, your instructions regarding the wires in the trunk do not apply. I imagine they're somewhere in the same general area for the wagon, under the carpet somewhere, I'm guessing. But I'm just wondering -- if the relay is operating, is it really necessary to check the voltage on the pink wire? Is this just a way of confirming that there isn't an issue with the wiring between the relay and the pump? Her car is full of crap that I'll have to pull out in order to get to wires, which I'm not looking forward to, but I'll do it if I have to.
Also, I disconnected the fuel line at the injector rail. I expected to see something when I first turned on the key (the pump should run momentarily), but there was nothing. And then when I cranked it, no fuel came from the fuel line at all. Which reinforces the very first test I did, which was to listen for the fuel pump at the gas cap when the key was switched on (and didn't hear anything).
At this point, my suspicion is that it is the fuel pump that's gone out. But I guess I need to dig out the wiring from the relay to the fuel pump just to be sure.
I'm doing a search here on the topic of replacing a fuel pump and a question just occurred to me. As I dimly recall, my old 1988 765T had both an exterior and in-tank fuel pump. The exterior pump was located beneath the driver seat. With that car, if the in-tank pump went out, it would still run fine, just the main fuel pump would whine a bit. (Which is what that car did) I've been doing some online searches too and so far I've only been getting hits on in-tank pumps, so can I assume that the V90 has only an in-tank pump?
Something else just occurred to me. When I drove the car the last time before it quit, first thing I noticed when I started it up was a sort of soft almost moaning sound that I'd never heard before. It was a continuous sound. I asked my wife if she'd heard it when she drove the care earlier that day and she'd notice it too. So, I'm curious -- is this added noise typical of a sort of "pre-failure mode" regarding the fuel pump?
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Thanks very much for the additional info, Bob. I hope to get to spend some time on the car tomorrow and I'll use your advice when I take a closer look at things.
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Plenty of gas?
Take off the gas cap and have someone turn on the ignition. Do you hear the fuel pump? If not it may need a fuel pump relay or a fuel pump.
Jimo
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Thanks for the response, Jimo. OK, I did as you suggested and I couldn't hear anything. But how loud will the fuel pump noise be? Reason why I ask is because the car is parked almost right next to the neighbor's A/C compressor unit, which makes an appreciable noise. I used a stick to depress the flap covering the fuel intake tube and stuck my ear up to the gas cap threads, but all I could hear was the neighbor's A/C unit. Which is why I ask how loud the pump noise is.
Probably later tonight the neighbor's A/C unit will switch off for a while. This being Houston, Texas -- namely HOT right now -- his A/C unit might run all night long. But I can hope.
The fuel pump relay is located in the fuse box under the hood, correct? Is there any way to test the relay -- using a multimeter, perhaps -- for correct function?
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I just went out and had my wife to turn on the ignition while I listened at the gas filler. It is not very loud and just made a small gurgling sound for several seconds.
I believe the relay is located inside on the passenger side just to the right of the radio. You can access it by removing the kick panel under the glovebox.
I don't know how to test the relay with a meter, but you might try prying the cover off the relay and clean the contacts.
Another item to check is to make sure the torx connectors for the ignition control modules are tight. They are located on the front and the back of the intake manifold.
Hope this helps.
Jimo
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Okay, I just checked it again. This time the neighbor's A/C unit wasn't running, so it was relatively quiet. When my wife turned the key, I heard no sound at all coming from the fuel tank. So it sounds like it's probably a fuel issue then. I think I might confirm this later by taking loose the fuel line at the injector rail and see if anything comes out when I turn the key. If not, then it clearly is a fuel issue.
On this car, there's a largish box under the hood on the drivers side labeled "fuses". Inside the box are several fuses, but also several relays, including one that is labeled as the fuel pump relay. So I guess I'm gonna start here. A relay's a lot cheaper than a fuel pump. I'll also check the electrical connections -- make sure they're doing what they're supposed to and all.
Hopefully this is all it is -- the fp relay.
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