|
|
|
Hi all - I have a 93 240 that I am trying to bring back to life. Everything is working well except the overdrive solenoid. I have replaced the relay with one I "think" works - it's from my other 240, which when I press the button, lights up the arrow on the dash but does not activate overdrive (however I have no problem with the car going into 4th gear). I don't care if overdrive works as long as it goes into 4th.
When I put the relay in the 93, the button/arrow light work, but I am locked out of 4th. I have tried to loosen the bolts holding the solenoid, but they won't budge (even after many days of PB blaster application and working with a flexible 12 mm rachet wrench).
I would like to know if the solenoid in the 93 is really not working. My question is - can the relay light up the arrow and not send electricity to the solenoid? The wires appear to be in good shape.
Also, is there some way to bypass the relay and check if the solenoid functions? I could get a new relay but if the solenoid is bad and I eliminate it, then it's just a waste of money to purchase the relay.
Thanks!
John
|
|
-
|
|
|
So I followed the wire and it is broken right where it enters the interior of the car above the tranny.. However, I couldn't figure out where the other end is inside the car. Is it in the area of the handbrake mechanism? Before I do exploratory surgery, are there any hints as to getting access to the wire (or alternatives)?
I did connect the solenoid wire to 12 volts and it does click.
thanks,
John
|
|
-
|
|
The super-flexible white wire comes inside at the front of the shifter bucket. It is kinda crowded inside there, and not fun at all to try feeding from under the car without some help to pull it through inside. You might even encounter some different challenges with the newer version shifter cover for '93 -- or it might be easier.
What I have done, replacing the solenoid and wire together, is fed a piece of scrap wire from above, through the grommet, and used an uninsulated crimp splice to attach the solenoid wire under the car, before pulling it back up through the grommet.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A gossip is someone with a great sense of rumor.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks Art for the suggestion. I couldn't get anything through the grommet (there may be wire insulation still stuck in there). I discovered some holes in the bottom of the shifter box and was able to thread the unbraided wire up through there and connect the white wire to that and fish it through.
All is working now!
However, I notice that the car shifts into 3rd around 35 and into 4th around 50. I previously flushed the tranny fluid through the cooling lines. Is this a concern? There car has not been driven in over 2 years (except for maybe the 50 miles I put on since getting it up and running).
Thanks again for coming through, brick board!
John
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hi John,
It concerns me you are talking about "extra" holes in the shifter bucket. Shouldn't be.
The shift point I mentioned occurs with little load. The kickdown cable adjustment is responsible for raising the shift points as you increase the load (accelerator pedal) so you may want to look at that in another thread perhaps. I don't think you had any ill effects doing the flush.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
I used to work in a blanket factory, but it folded.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I didn't expect to find any holes there either, but I noticed there were two holes near the corners of the shifter bucket (there may be two others on the other side but I the driveshaft was blocking that view). And I could see light through them. They had threads inside, so either something was bolted to the bottom outside or maybe it's something peculiar to a 93.
I'll check the kick down adjustment-
John
|
|
-
|
|
|
Good morning John,
According to what you have observed and reported, your 1993 240 is not in any need of repair to the solenoid or relay. Allow me to illustrate:
Fourth gear is overdrive. When the arrow light comes on, fourth gear is locked out and unavailable. The orange arrow is there to remind the driver of that.
Perhaps you are using a relay from an older 240, and the action of the lamp is confusing you as to which mode is selected. The older relays are not compatible, so be sure the part number on the relay you are using is the same as the original.
The design of the overdrive lockout relay is supposed to default to "overdrive available" when you start the car, which means the solenoid is energized and the arrow lamp is off. The shifter button provides alternate action switching, so the relay can turn the solenoid off, disabling 4th gear, and light the arrow to warn of this.
To bypass the relay, some have simply plugged a jumper wire into the socket terminals 15 and 87 in order to power the solenoid at all times when the ignition switch is on. If the solenoid does its job, this will allow normal upshifting to 4th gear (overdrive) at about 38 mph.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
An old Italian Mafia Don is dying and he calls his grandson to his bed!
'Lissin-a me. I wanna for you to taka my chrome plated 38 revolver so you
will always remember me.'
'But grandpa, I really don't lika guns. Howzabout you leava me your Rolex
watch instead?'
'Shuddup an lissin. Somma day you gonna runna da business..... you gonna
have a beautifula wife, lotsa money, a biga home and maybe a couple a
bambinos'
'Somma day you gonna comma home and maybe find you wife inna bed with
another man. Whadda you gonna do then....... pointa to your watch and say
'Times up'? !!!
|
|
-
|
|
|
Now I get it. Overdrive is 4th gear - pushing the button de-energizes the solenoid and downshifts into 3rd
thanks for all the suggestions. I have driven 240's for over 20 years and have never used the "downshift" aspect a single time (except when accidentally pushing the button going 70, which scared the be-jesus out of me).
I will try applying 12 v directly to the solenoid and see if that activates it. If it doesn't, I will need to get the solenoid removed for replacement or alteration.
will report back.
John
|
|
-
|
|
|
OK, it sounded like you thought 4th gear was working, so the solenoid must be as well. What gives credence to this is you recognize the noisy, scary way the engine sounds when 4th is locked out.
If not, and you decide to remove the solenoid, I can stress the importance of cleaning behind the solenoid before breaking those bolts loose. Use a mirror and powerful light to be sure the road grime is not ready to fall into the transmission as you lift the solenoid from it. I can stress this because of the typical "don't do my mistake" sting of recent failure.
I did replace one very recently, and in doing so, failed to clean this area well. After pulling the solenoid, I wiped a finger-tip full of little rocks which had lodged behind it and escaped the rag. After replacing the dead solenoid with a working unit, the 4th gear still did not work. I feel very lucky it began to work again, which I discovered about 200 miles later when the car returned for another issue.
Here is evidence I knew better and just got sloppy: http://cleanflametrap.com/pub_autoOD/
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
What's the definition of a will? It's a dead giveaway.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Great pictorial, just one question where did you get rings?
Thanks
Dan
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks Dan. Good question. I recall having trouble with the O ring supplied by one vendor or another -- the large one was too large in diameter and would not stay in the groove on the solenoid.
Lucky, I have a rather extensive collection of nitrile O rings, mostly obtained in orders over the years from McMaster-Carr. The one I used last month was a size 021. The small O-ring I have not replaced in a long time, just re-used the one stuck on the solenoid.
About the pictorial... I was thinking album style back then because so many still were viewing the internet through dialup modems, making it "polite" to offer thumbnails before selecting some 300K image to download. Now it can't be that well suited for the typical cell phone browser. I need to redo those old pages.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Corduroy pillows are making headlines.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks Art
I replaced a dead solenoid with a used one a few months ago and went looking for new orings. Not much of a selection at NAPA or the local hardware store so I just reused the old ones and so far no leaks!
Dan
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yes. I was getting a little confused about what he was saying about the arrow light.
On my '92 automatic when the arrow lights up it is pointing upwards.
This means it is telling you that up can shift up into fourth, if you push the button to release the relay. It is keeping it from shifting up into fourth or the overdrive gear on purpose!
It is intended to be use on grades going either up or down.
Going down hill it will hold back the car so you don't have to use your brakes so much. This saves rotors from overheating and the pads from fading out in case you really need them to stop you.
Going up hill it keeps the transmission from shifting up and down, if you are running at a speed at which, the engine keeps losing momentum and torque to pull steadily.
With this said, it is something that you should not want to bypass mostly because down hill safety and up hill repetitive shifting.
The going up hill, work of the torque converter, gets the oil hot enough.
Going up hill requires torque over brake horsepower. Or actual Draw Bar horsepower, which is, actual pulling power of a steady pull and not a "dropped load snatch" to a near stall or stall of an engine.
Brake horsepower is still a sales gimmick. A number derived from moving a load, one foot in one second. In the old days, the brake horsepower number was specified "@ the rear wheels!"
Today, that has slipped from manuals and sales brochures.
Just like lawnmower engines are rated twice that of an electric motor equilivent or your vacuum cleaner is rated up onto the gas engines horsepower.
An electric motor, the size of fist, peaks out a 4.5 horsepower. All a lie! Sales again!
With horses or "A" true horsepower of work done, that's put is correct in relationships, to most anything else used, you want to go farther than that!
Draw bar are old time accurate specifications but are a far smaller number and did not look impressive to customers in a two place whole number and some tenths.
Now a farmer and his tractor knew the difference.
Their engines make like 35 hp @ a few thousand RPM. But getting it down out to those large rear wheels is a whole new reality.
They can put, 200+ hp Jeeps, to shame getting them out of their holes!
That is why you see large cubic inch engines pulling at lower RPM's and little engine screaming to bring up their torque bands up where their horsepower is developed with short stroke engines.
I know that this seems all irrelevant, but think again, why did Volvo put in the overdrive and also put in a relay and switch!
Better for engine and transmission, I'd say, leave it working.
IMHO
Phil
|
|
-
|
|
|
After a few solenoid problems ijust wired it direct with a rocker switch.
I used a rear window defog switch(Labeled)on the panel, still works after 14 yrs
I actually never turn it off unless towing heavy.
--
Rene
|
|
-
|
|
|
Oops most important Overdrive IS fourth.
--
Rene
|
|
-
|
|
|
Just as important, those were not solenoid problems you where "fixing". they were either relay or wiring problems.
Fixing the solenoid problem involves replacing it, using a bypass plate or doing the dremel mod to you existing solenoid.
|
|
-
|
|
|
You could put 12 volts directly to the solenoid and id it's working you will hear it.
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
