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Hi Folks,
I know this topic has been discussed...
But please remind me, how can I tell when my M47 is starting to fail?
I'm getting a little whining in lower gears at low speeds. And now I'm starting to get a new stronger whine when I speed up in 2nd... Need to get it out on the highway and have a listen.
The tranny seems to shift and operate fine otherwise. 200k miles with a recent fluid flush.
???
Any tips on where to find a replacement or have mine rebuilt?
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Wed Feb 17 12:37 CST 2016 [ RELATED]
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in my experience the noise came with the 5th gear engaged. and was not present in 4th (which is basically direct drive) or any of the lower gears.
If you've never replaced or done any greasing of the Center Support bearing, that should be the first thing you do before you get yourself all twisted about the M47. Do the U-joints too while the drive shaft is out. Only then should you worry about the trans.
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Right.
My plan now is to swap the center bearing and u-joints then check how things sound.
Going to source out a M47 just to have one in case...
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Like MacDuff says, drain the oil and look for metal shavings. If you find a lot the bearings are going. If you change the fluid regularly (every other oil change) and over fill it as much as you can, it will last for 10s of thousands of miles.
The problem is that the top shaft in the transmission does not get enough oil.
Greg
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"The problem is that the top shaft in the transmission does not get enough oil."
AFAIK this only affects the early version where the 5th gear was in a separate section piggy backed onto the back of the box. This was based on the 4 speed. Later ones were redesigned and the oiling problem eliminated. Not saying it's wrong to keep the oil level well topped up though, but the level Volvo set for the revised M47 should be fine.
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Wed Feb 17 13:04 CST 2016 [ RELATED]
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just to add on to this. From looking into this and from looking a the Green Books and other detailed VOLVO parts lists that I've found --- one in particular is huge because it is in German, English, Swedish, French, and Italian.
The M47 came out in 86, and and was soon replaced by the reconfigured M47II, in 1987. The difference was the way the 5th gear was hung and the bearing that supported this config in the case. And a relocated Fill hole - a bit higher in the case. There is no way to tell just by looking. You've got to pull the rear box off the case to see how the 5th gear is hung.
I have come to believe that not too many, if any M47s made it to the states installed in 240s...which in the 240 was first available in the 1987 model year. Unless the 87 was "built" in 1986 for the Fall as that's when the New Model years get introduced....which should be noted on a plate, on the drivers door, then it may have a M47. But definitely from 1988 on they were all M47IIs
for Pics of the 5th gear hanging go to and download noted PDF
http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/?dir=volvo/-%20Service%20Manuals/
TP30941-1 M46, M47, M47II and Overdrives.pdf
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MrNabisco,
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/TransmissionManual.htm#M475SpeedNoiseinGearBearingsBad
Did you find much silver in the fluid you drained away? Did you clean the magnetic loads in the drain and possibly the fill plugs?
The fluid is topped up? Overfill is okay. Have you checked the fluid level? Leaks can form unexpectedly on these gear boxes.
When you changed your fluid, you used:
- Volvo gear lube part number 1161645 (or thicker 116745? - for M90, yes?
- Redline MTL as the Redline website states or a higher viscosity up for high mileage M47
- Synthetic 10W30 some may say.
- Ford ATF "Type F" or slightly heavier "Type G" in a pinch. Though ignore the owner manual and green books.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2989981
As for noise, like the FAQ URL says, if you encounter bearing noise more so in gears 1-3 and possibly five, you have bearing wear.
If you press the clutch pedal in, and the noise quiets or ends, you have a failing throwout bearing.
(Note: Depress the clutch pedal when you change gears ONLY. Do NOT leave the clutch pedal depressed for sustained periods as the throwout bearing will fail much sooner, as will other clutch parts, as these clutch parts are under the most stress when depressing the clutch lever pedal.)
As for noise, please see:
M47 noise - throwout bearing or transmission? 200 1989
- https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1291320&show_all=1
M47 Noises and Oil Options
- http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=290994
M47 Rebuild? 200 1993
- https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1594921&show_all=1
M47 Gearbox noises
- http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=180267
You know you bought a broken M47 when...
(Not to be alarmist, in the thread, a article poster suggests a hole in the shift boot and a missing foam insert to quiet road noise allowed normal M47 noise to enter the passenger cabin - dunno what normal M47 noise is, tho. No gear / bearing whine / groan sounds?)
- http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=93905
m47 makes noise in 3rd and 5th
- http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=66763
Hope that helps you. Sorry for your problems. Hope it is an easy fix.
Others will chime in with useful info and probably without a bunch of pasted links.
Thank you.
Early Morning MacDuff. (Mark-Up Language Flunkie)
From AutoZone -- Fig. 24: Cutaway view of the M47 transmission-shown is power transfer in 5th gear
http://www.autozone.com/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c152800643f4
--
Jonathan Harshman Winters III: The Mightiest, Greatest, & Most Powerful North American Comedian & Comedic Actor in Perpetuity
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OK. Right!
Tons of info there. Thanks for compiling all that in one post. I hope it helps others with M47s...
The fluid was recently changed with proper Volvo part number fluid. I do not think it was overfilled. I had Dave do the chore with some other work and he reported some metal in the fluid but I didn't have eyes on that. I will jack up the car and get it overfilled.
Before that I was running overfull with Redline MTL.
I wouldn't be so worried if M47 trannys were easy to find...
Also, could I be hearing the center driveshaft bearing starting to fail?
The driveshaft bearing is one of the few parts on my 245 that has not been replaced.
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Hi,
I've had center bearing noises on 2 240's, and both got noisy at just over 200k. I don't know if that's typical.
You can inject some grease using a hypodermic needle on your grease gun, which should quiet it down if that's the problem. There are many posts on the procedure.
Peter
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Thanks for the responses.
I will try to grease the center bearing once the weather breaks and see what that does.
I did not perform the last fluid change and so I was not able to look at or smell the fluid. It has only been a few thousand miles, but maybe I will perform another fluid change soon... ??? There were slight whining sounds in low gears before the fluid change, but not serious.
I do have a lead on an M47 which I hope pans out.
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Hi MrNabisco,
Sorry to go on so. The brickboard.com is sometimes the early morning warm-up before the write-up.
What I failed to ask you was a question of causality ...
Was your M47 gearbox transmission making whining, groaning, or other sounds before or after the fluid change?
So, did you inspect the condition of the spent fluid, and the silver bits abnd sparkles in the spent old fluid and caught in the magnetic loads of the drain (and possibly fill) plugs? Did you inspect the amount of spent fluid? The smell of the spent fluid? (You can sometimes tell what fluid was put in by the smell, if old and burnt.)
You can find M47s though an intense search. It is the rebuilding of the M47 that can be hugely costly if using a service, if new parts are available. You know the sources.
However, also try the RWD overhead cam redblock pages on facebook.
Volvo 240 club
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Volvo240Club/
Brickboard.com on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/192528994099443/
Both are closed groups and you subscribe or something. There's been a few M47s for sale. Yet verify the M47 condition before forking any cash over.
Please advise.
Questions?
Ruby Tuesday MacDuff
--
Jonathan Harshman Winters III: The Mightiest, Greatest, & Most Powerful North American Comedian & Comedic Actor in Perpetuity
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