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Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

Hi Everyone,

I have a 92 740 non turbo wagon. 113k miles with the Regina system.

Drives really good other than I have been getting a shutter when the car warms up and is idling at a stop light. It doesn't happen when I slow down only when at stop light in gear. It goes away if I put in neutral or park.

When I say shutter the car will shake for a split second as the rpms drop 100-200 and then goes back to normal. Kind of like when the fan or AC turns on. Those are not the causes though as they are not running when I experience this. It does this 3-8 times at stop lights depending on how long I am stopped. I cant tell if it is a misfire or potentially something to do with the charging system???

Other info : recently replaced just to be proactive
Fuel pump and radio suppression relay ( had the shutter before these were replaced )

No Codes

IF it is warm and the fan does turn on while at a stop light the car wont shutter at Idle.

Any ideas where to start?
thanks so much,

Jake










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    Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

    Just an Update.

    Went back to mechanics. He was kind enough to look at for free for me.

    He still was unable to figure it out and recommended another Volvo mechanic who has some mechanics that have been there since the 80's.

    He checked all vacuum lines, checked the distributor cap said it looked good an had no cracks. He did clean the contacts. Checked CPS and various other things.

    He did note that he thought my idle was too low (around 600rpm) especially for the elevation. ( Im in Denver) HE said it was hard to adjust idle on Regina system though without it going crazy. HE was able to bump it up about 40 rpm.

    SO it did drive a little better. It seemed like it took longer (amount of time driving) for the stutter to come back and it wasnt as bad as when it stuttered before.

    It may just be because the idle is a little faster or my imagination. Maybe the cleaning of the distributor cap helped a bit??? ( I plan on putting a new one on just to be sure)

    Any thoughts?








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      Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

      So he/they checked one of the things mentioned in my post so I still suggest all the others.

      "My guess is a lost spark. On any car this can be ab arc from the wires, a worn cap/rotor or a bad spark plug.

      On YOUR car it can also be the micro-corrosion between the integrated ignition powerstage and the coil. It is well documented but yours would be a less than common symptom."

      I would be very curious how he could adjusted the idle. I am no Regina expert but I am pretty sure you can't unless you cheat and adjust the throttle stop so the butterfly stays a little open which is not a good idea (since Regina uses a throttle position sensor instead of a throttle position switch on LH 2.# I would assume even this is not feasible).








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        Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

        Hey Everyone.

        Another Update. I think I finally solved it. I hate to even say that as I am scared I will jinx myself.

        But It drove terrific all day today with no stumble. THis past Sunday I changed the wires and plugs and cleaned the throttle body. I am not sure what exactly the culprit was but I would lean toward the plug wires.

        One of the boots was extremely stiff and broken almost in half near the base.
        Im not sure how that relates to it only acting up when it was hot but I have to believe this was the problem.

        I think Onkel UDO II called it.

        Thanks everyone for your help and input.








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          Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

          A lost spark situation, especially intermittent, is often hard to track down. Some of what you think may be causing it might be coincidence (only when hot...how do you know for sure it was not only when the wire was not jiggled by the opening of the hood?) or they may bear on the original root cause. Usually ignition components effected by heat are the coil, power stage (the two are integrated in this case) and maybe the CPS...particularly it wire.

          I actually would suspect a bad plug more than a cracked boot on the wire IF it truly is heat related. You might find cracked or partially missing porcelain on a plug if you look close enough.








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    Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

    Thanks for the replies!

    I will do the plugs, wires, cap and rotor this weekend just to eliminate that. I am not sure when the previous owner did these. They look good but I guess you never know.

    I will also recheck all the vacuum connections


    Also just a long shot. Is there a way to disconnect the cooling fan momentarily? Sometimes I wonder if the stutter has something to do with the fan. Maybe it is turning on and off rapidly at idle??????

    When it stutters at idle if feels exactly the same as when the fan actually turns on ( except rapidly on and off a whole bunch of times).








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      Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

      Sure...just unplug it. I am assuming you are speaking o an electric fan.

      I have to circle back here...any chance you have the climate control set in such a way the AC is kicking on, and therefore the fan in question? Defrost for example?








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        Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

        Thanks for asking but no I have made sure the A/C is not turning on.

        I really think it has something to do with the ambient temperature in the engine bay too. The other day when acting up I had my wife put car in gear and hold brake while I looked under the hood in hopes I could hear something. It wouldnt stumble. Seemed like when the hood opened some heat escaped and the problem went away. ( may have been coincidence)

        Could the crank position sensor cause an erratic idle? Someone once told me the cps was a magnet and magnets are affected by heat????








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          Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

          Hi there,

          I don't fart around much in 7&9 series but the CPS is in my 200's. I can tell you what I think it is though.

          Have you notice circular cut patterns in the asphalt in your lanes before you get to traffic lights.

          These are coils of wire laid in those tiny trench like grooves.
          They pass an electric current through them that creates a magnetic field but it's a very weak one in a since nothing is drawn to it.

          The coil has a steady flux around the coil emitted evenly. When a massive object gets within the circular field the flux lines are disrupted from having an even flow. This reflection, if you will, is sensed as a "capacitive change" from the normal range due. It's called an "induction" sensed return. It could be reactance or impedance as either might be a better term.
          I lose my butt in electronics. Just trying to sort two those out within different types of electric motors or circuits keep me second thinking what my mouth said!

          There is a circuit monitor back at a signal box near by that trips timing counters and then relays to change the lights.

          The CPS sensor works the same way in relation to holes drilled in the circumference of the flywheel.
          In reality it's generated magnetic field is reacting to the absence of metal and then to the web of metal between the holes.

          The ICU uses the information to fire plugs and sends signals too the ECU that modifies other goodies per a program. So both ICU and the ECU are always shaking hands with sensors and each other.

          The CPS could be funky but that usually shows up as a random hard starting issue or it can straight out die to a no start. I carry a spare!

          I suggest you square away the ignition components first. A bad rotor button can cause grief before it totally blows out. You do not mention if you are having a rainy or moist days that can bring out some very ugly symptoms.

          Past the ignition you want to make sure that there are no air leaking cracks behind the Air Mass Meter sensor. No loose fitting clamps, ill fitting vacuum lines around leading to the intake manifold.
          This includes the vacuum line coming from the cabin. There are lots of air bleeders in there.

          You can temporarily plug the line to them to cross off them causing the randomness.
          This car is not simple if it has any automatic climate controls.

          When the car idles under a slight load the air flows are very slow. Any surge of excess air will quickly "bonk" on the delicate emissions mixtures and the computer will try do the "chase thing" to catch up! Computers are fast but it's only reactionary!

          I hope me stepping around in this area I don't belong, gets you closer to finding the little Masked Gremlin!

          Phil








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            Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

            I just had another thought of something you can look into.

            It's related to a vacuum leak when you have the car in gear and your foot in the brake.

            The booster can or diaphragm could be leaking depending on how much and when its stepped on.

            The leak maybe still small enough to not to feel that it's applying enough force to operate the brakes.

            The next time it does its trick try pinching off the hose too the brake booster to see if it affects the idling.

            Might be worth a shot or at least squeeze one off in that direction.

            Phil








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    Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

    So the shutter is getting worse. Obviously I still have been unsuccessful in fixing it.

    The check engine light did come on two days ago. I took to mechanic hoping they were related. They were not. It was a knock sensor light. They replaced the knock sensor but the shutter is still there.

    The mechanic cannot figure it out either.

    Any one have any other ideas for me? Please


    It is driving me crazy. Almost feels like it is going to stall at stop lights now. Again only when the car is beyond warmed up and in gear. No shutter at neutral or park.








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      Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

      Here are easy things to check, which when I fixed on my '90 750 Regina smoothed out the idle.

      1. The vacuum connections on the vacuum sensor. I had a small tear in the vacuum rubber coupling under the sensor (mounted on the drivers fender wall close to the firewall.

      2. The harmonic balancer. If the inner rubber strip is dry and cracked this could need replacement.

      Good luck getting her running smooth.
      --
      '90 740GL wagon








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        Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

        "1. The vacuum connections on the vacuum sensor. I had a small tear in the vacuum rubber coupling under the sensor (mounted on the drivers fender wall close to the firewall."

        What sensor are you speaking of? I am not familiar with the term or ANY sensor i the location you speak of.

        What is a 750 Regina? I assume 740 with Regina but want to make sure.








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      Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

      So is this potentially a random misfire? My guess is a lost spark. On any car this can be ab arc from the wires, a worn cap/rotor or a bad spark plug.

      On YOUR car it can also be the micro-corrosion between the integrated ignition powerstage and the coil. It is well documentd but yours would be a less than common symptom.








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    Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

    Hi again
    Still struggling to figure this out.

    I do think I can say I think the temperature in the engine bay has something to do with it.

    Again it doesn't happen till quite a bit after the car is warned up.
    I actually stopped at mechanic the other day when it was doing it. He opened the hood and I put the car in gear ( only happens in gear) with foot on brake like being at a stop light. Wouldn't you know it couldnt get it to reproduce the shuddering.
    That makes me think that opening the hood let out the built up heat.

    Could a crank position sensorry cause a shudder at idle? Ive heard they can be affected by heat.








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    Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

    I cleaned the Idle air control valve.

    No Change.

    Other ideas?

    again its the same feeling shudder as when the cars fan or ac turns on like it is under load. Does it 3- 8 times rapidly while idling in gear at stop light and only when car is warmed up.








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    Shutter at Idle when in gear and warmed up 700 1992

    Possible a sticky air idle control valve. I'd remove and clean by spraying throttle body cleaner thru it for a bit. It has helped mine on my 93 a couple of times when it acted like this. Mike







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