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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

Hey All,
There seems to be a lot of threads about starting issues (and I read a good handful last night) but I'll add another to the list. Recently my GF's 240 wagon has been having some starting issues. It will misfire on startup when the engine is cold but eventually level out and run great after about a minute. I went to move it out of the garage last night and it just refused to start all together. Gave it a try this morning and it's back to it's normal misfiring self.

Recent maintenance I've done to it:
Replaced Cap and Rotor (~6 months ago) The old rotor had essentially melted.
Replaced plugs and wires with NGK units (~6 months ago)
Cleaned throttle body and Idle valve (~4 months ago)
Replaced water pump (~4 months ago)
Replaced fuel filter (~6 months ago)
Replaced broken FPR vacuum hose (~2 months ago)

Timing belt is pretty old and I plan on replacing it soon.

Troubleshooting I did last night:
No trouble codes on either pin 2 or 6
Does have a faint blue spark when grounding out a plug wire
Has greater than 1/2 tank fuel
Confirmed power to blue coil wire and AMM. Not sure how to test the powerstage.
Regreased powerstage and checked for corrosion in the plug
Checked for corrosion in the CPS plug
Cap and rotor not corroded
25 amp blade fuse looks good and not corroded
Could hear at least one of the fuel pumps running while cranking (I'll jump the fuses today to see if they both work, I know the external pump sounds horrible)
Timing belt is not broken.
Ignition coil primary resistance is slightly over spec at 1.1 ohms, should be 0.9 ohms max. Secondary resistance is within spec.

It runs and drives currently but with the misfiring at startup. It seems like it's just one cylinder, I'll try and verify that. I just don't need it to die again like it did last night. Any guidance is welcome as my troubleshooting knowledge is mainly limited to older Honda's.








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

An update for those curious. I replaced the in tank pump as well as the CKP. It ran great with little to no stumbles for a week or two then had troubles starting again. Decided to test the Engine Coolant Temp sensor that gives the ECM the temp and it was way out of resistance causing the engine to flood when it was cold. Changed it out with a new one and it's been running perfect.








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

When you throw in humidity you are yelling, bad wires or distributor cap with that fuel smell!

Especially the wire from the coil that can play with all four cylinders. Was it changed out?

When it's dark tonight, wet the wires and cap. Using a spray bottle, just mist them down "lightly" with the engine running. You don't want them so wet that it can conduct a solid spark down the wires. We want to see sparks scattering and jumping like when it's humid!

Use enough to mist the engine parts as well.
Could be an area of the engine that gets hot last. I suspect the moisture stays there the longest unless the spark plugs boots or cap boots are loose fitting.

The ten minutes of wait time, to begin running right, is saying something is dead or dying!

Look for spark to be tracing or tracking down the length of a wire or even between two them on the outside.
It may also be jumping outwards to the metal valve cover, especially, if they are not held up and apart by some nylon spacing bars or a round flat ring that is suppose to be above the distributor.

Phil









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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

When it "misfires" does it kick back at the starter? Seem to lock up as if firing way early on compression?

The fix for this has been the CPS, and in my own experience, a new OE CPS put in proactively led to this symptom.

Or does it just not run on all four? If this, I would look at the plugs one time BEFORE cranking to see if you have a dribbling injector. Look with your nose.

I can picture a charred rotor but not a melted one. Can you picture?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

I had no Monet to buy Degas to make the Van Gogh.








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

It just doesn't seem to run on all four. It'll fire up (except for last night) and run all stumbly for a bit.
Going through the engine today I did find the hose between the flametrap and flametrap filter to have a massive split in it. I replaced it and cleaned the flametrap. Figured it was letting in unmetered air which might cause the stumble? I also found that the in tank pump isn't turning on even when bypassing the relay. I thought it seemed a little quiet inside lately.
I'll pull the plugs out anyways tonight and smell for any fuel. That'll give me a chance to double check my gap too.

Here's the rotor for the curious, charred might be a better term: https://i.imgur.com/kJDNqBQ.jpg








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

Great pic! That's the resistor burned up.

Not sure which hose you mean, because I'm not getting "flametrap filter" but the one from the manifold orifice to the side port of the flame trap is prone to clogging, so make sure to run a pipe cleaner through the orifice and that the hose is clear. The other hose is on the open throttle side, but if you mean the S shaped hose between the flame trap and the oil separator -- that probably won't affect your idle as much as it will the mess in your engine compartment.

The leaky injector is a common reason for cold start lumpy running. Sometimes you can catch a whiff of the unburned fuel from the exhaust just after starting. And when you have one, it doesn't always leak. Just leaks when the injector valve fails to seat well, so you get this "checks fine" reaction when you pull the rail to see for sure. However, that happens with Hondas too.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

This girl said she recognized me from the vegetarian club, but I'd never met herbivore.








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

This sounds similar to a recent hard start problem I had.

See: www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1614713/220/240/260/280/hard_start_ratty_idle_solved.html

After a lot of jacking around, it turned out to be the first thing I had suspected and checked (albeit, carelessly) - a vacuum leak.

Rich (near Pittsburgh)








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

Found a massive split in the little hose b/w the flametrap and the flametrap filter. Fixed that and it seems to idle better.








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Hard Start/No Start When Cold 200 1990

Thanks Rich,
I'll check for vacuum leaks. I already replaced one rotten hose previously, I'm sure there are others. However I just tested both pumps and the in tank pump is dead. Not sure if this would cause my symptoms either but it will be replaced on payday.







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