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91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

posted by  pageda on  Fri Sep 11 08:09 CST 2015
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last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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It is always something with this car! I just discovered the steering kind of sticks a little on either left or right turns and does not return to center like it does on my other 240's. It seems to "catch " a little and needs input from the driver on the steering wheel to center itself.

Fluid level good, otherwise power steering seems normal but something is not right and I have not experienced this before.

I did spray the Ujoints with PB Blaster thinking maybe one is getting tight. As usual any ideas or your experiences with similar problems are appreciated.

Dan








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    91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

    posted by  pageda on  Sat Sep 12 10:43 CST 2015
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    With the engine running and front wheels off the ground I have less than 1/8 th of a turn of the steering wheel movement on either side of center before I get normal resistance from the steering.

    It kind of moves freely around center whether the engine is running or not. My problem doesn't seem to be u-joint related but a bad / failing rack?

    Tie rods and bearings seem fine on both sides.

    Dan








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      91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

      posted by  pageda on  Sat Sep 12 12:09 CST 2015
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      last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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      Google is telling me that self centering as I have called it and poor returnability and sticky steering
      (used to describe the poor return of the steering wheel to center after a turn or steering correction is completed) is a sign of a failing rack.

      I guess it's time to replace it.

      Dan








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        91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

        uid 27's pic
        posted by  Art Benstein on  Sat Sep 12 12:38 CST 2015
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        last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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        If that pinion free play you describe, characteristic of the rack, is there with the wheels up and pump running, it should be just as, or even more noticeable with the wheels down and no power assist.
        --
        Art Benstein near Baltimore

        If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.








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          91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

          posted by  pageda on  Sat Sep 12 15:03 CST 2015
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          last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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          Art
          I don't think it is free play between the rack and the pinion, when the steering wheel moves so do the wheels.

          It seems more like a dead spot at the center where the rack does not return to center as it normally does. Am I making any sense?

          Dan








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            91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

            uid 27's pic
            posted by  Art Benstein on  Sat Sep 12 15:21 CST 2015
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            last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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            OK, I think I understand, but if I do you are saying you expect it to be the rack's job to establish return to center. If Google tells you that, I say you should go with it. Maybe, in the end, you can post back and I will learn something.
            --
            Art Benstein near Baltimore

            Optimist - half full, Pessimist - half empty, Engineer - The capacity is twice what it needs to be.








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              91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

              posted by  pageda on  Sat Sep 12 15:38 CST 2015
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              last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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              Art

              I guess I am not explaining my self correctly

              Not automatically return to center, but I don't expect it to continue a turn and I have to correct in the opposite direction to keep it on the road. Normally when you let go of the wheel the car has a tendency to stop turning and at least go straight not continue the turn.

              It gets "stuck" in a turn until I manually correct it by turning the wheel in the opposite direction.

              I found this that seems to explain what I am experiencing.

              http://www.justanswer.com/ford/3bu1s-tell-rack-pinion-bad.html

              Poor Returnability/Sticky Steering

              Poor returnability and sticky steering is used to describe the poor return of the steering wheel to center after a turn or steering correction is completed.

              Dan








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                91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

                uid 27's pic
                posted by  Art Benstein on  Sat Sep 12 17:28 CST 2015
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                last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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                The force to finish a turn comes from the tires on the ground, the toe-in and caster, but I can see where a sticky U-joint would inhibit that force.

                A hypothetical test might be to set both tie rods an equal amount one direction, say left for instance, so the wheel is no longer centered when the steering is, then see if the lazy spot moves along the rack or remains with the U-joint.

                Most would say this goes beyond the usual part swapping approach to mechanical repair. It might indeed be time for a rebuilt rack.


                --
                Art Benstein near Baltimore

                I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure...







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                  91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

                  posted by  pageda on  Sat Sep 12 17:53 CST 2015
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                  last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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                  That I could try with little effort and might tell me if I need a u-joint. I already have a near new Volvo rack from the bone yard on hand.

                  Nothing has changed related to curb damage or alignment issues.

                  I guess I could loosen and slide the u-joint up to see how it flexes although that could be a PIA job all by itself.

                  Thanks
                  Dan








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                    91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

                    posted by  jwalker on  Sun Sep 13 09:11 CST 2015
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                    last visit: Fri Jun 6 08:39 CST 2014
                    [RELATED]

                    Here is a link from the 700/900 FAQ giving rack replacement info. Note the use of a screwdriver to separate the u-joint allowing the u-joint to slide up the steering shaft. I've seen that mentioned before on the BB. Helpful hint!

                    https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/Steering.htm#RackReplacement

                    You may well need a new rack, but it is still possible that it is that lower u-joint. I suggest giving the penetratrant more time before condemning the rack. Often that lower u-joint does not free-up easily.

                    BTW - The "stickiness" and not returning to center exactly matches the symptoms I had on my 90 240 when the lower u-joint failed.







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                      91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

                      posted by  pageda on  Sun Sep 13 09:26 CST 2015
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                      last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
                      [RELATED]

                      Good advice, I will continue to spray and wait.

                      I have replaced a couple of racks on different cars with only minimal issues. I have used screw drivers and chiseles to spread the joint.

                      Thanks
                      Dan








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                    91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

                    uid 27's pic
                    posted by  Art Benstein on  Sat Sep 12 18:27 CST 2015
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                    last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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                    Either way, it could turn into no fun at all. At least I can say that for cars up here. Maybe less corrosion down there will make it easier.
                    --
                    Art Benstein near Baltimore

                    I have several of each awaiting time and inclination, as the Tower of Pisa said to Big Ben, "If you've got the time, I've got the inclination." - GD III








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                      91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

                      posted by  pageda on  Sun Sep 13 09:21 CST 2015
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                      last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
                      [RELATED]

                      I have read some horror stories about removing the u-joint and this has me worried. But the car is from the south and I am currently bathing the joint with PB Blaster, so it's either going to clear up or I have to remove it and the rack to see what the story is.

                      The rack seems fine, nothing is leaking and there are no worn parts that I can see or feel.

                      I will keep a close eye on it and keep spraying the joint and see what happens. In the mean time will get a u-joint.

                      Thanks
                      Dan







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    91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

    posted by  jwalker on  Fri Sep 11 11:03 CST 2015
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    last visit: Fri Jun 6 08:39 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Forgot to mention, based on my experience with my 240 and 850, sometimes multiple applications are required to loosen the steering shaft u-joints. Then give it some time. Often they will gradually free up rather than immediately.

    This seems to be a common problem here in the rust/road salt belt...:)







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    91 245 Steering Not Self Centering 200 1991

    uid 27's pic
    posted by  Art Benstein on  Fri Sep 11 09:06 CST 2015
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    last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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    First thing is to rule out the rack. Just lift the front wheels off of the ground and verify the power assist does not pull one way or the other; that the steering wheel stays where you put it.

    Next, check out the more likely and common reasons. With the tires off the ground, grab and shake. From 3-9 o'clock watch the play in the tie rod ball joints. From 6-12 look for wheel bearing looseness and suspension ball joint play. Ask the driver if a curb has played a part in their recent travels. A bent control arm can change the alignment suddenly.

    Observe the wear on the tires. Toe-in helps return to center. Too much scrubs the rubber off of the outside edges.
    --
    Art Benstein near Baltimore

    Never miss a good chance to shut up.








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      91 245 Steering Not Self Centering 200 1991

      posted by  pageda on  Fri Sep 11 09:50 CST 2015
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      last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
      [RELATED]

      I will try these suggestions next chance I get.

      Passenger side is good as I just replaced a steering boot this morning.

      Going down the road the steering will remain centered once I get beyond the area where it does not center without the driver input.

      Will need to check into curb rash, tires are new so have not developed wear patterns. Old tires wore pretty evenly

      Thanks
      Dan








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        Somewhat self-centered 200 1991

        uid 27's pic
        posted by  Art Benstein on  Fri Sep 11 10:17 CST 2015
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        last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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        My understanding of the term "curb rash" is wheel damage from being parallel parked too well. But the sort of curb event I was hinting at can only be diagnosed by interview, unless the wrinkle in a control arm is obvious. I think it isn't the case where you live, so much, as it is where snow hides the curbs and ice sends one into them. That from my family Volvo experience...

        If you hadn't already mentioned the u-joints, that is where your symptom would have sent me. Easily felt with the wheels up.
        --
        Art Benstein near Baltimore

        "I want to establish in your mind very clearly that you must not think I deny all that I do not admit. On the contrary, I think there are many things which may be true, and which I shall receive as such hereafter, though I do not as yet receive them; but that is not because there is any proof to the contrary, but that the proof in the affirmative is not yet sufficient for me"
        - Michael Faraday








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          Somewhat self-centered 200 1991

          posted by  pageda on  Fri Sep 11 11:03 CST 2015
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          last visit: Fri Oct 24 13:18 CST 2014
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          I was being polite with using the term curb rash to protect the guilty! I am pretty sure major curb damage didn't occur as the plastic hub caps still look good and are present. I will have a closer look though.

          I am encouraged by your comment about the U-joints. What I am describing is fairly minimal and maybe some lubricant will solve it. We have had huge amounts of rain in the last month and a half.

          Dan







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    91 245 Steering Not Self Centering

    posted by  jwalker on  Fri Sep 11 08:48 CST 2015
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    last visit: Fri Jun 6 08:39 CST 2014
    [RELATED]


    You could try jacking the front end to check the operation of the rack. While there check the condition of the inner and outer tie rods.

    Since you cleaned the u-joints, you could apply some non-wash away grease. The next thing I'd try is flushing the old PS fluid and replacing it. I prefer using synthetic as that stopped a leak in my 850's rack but that's your call...









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