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... So, after my Spokane (Trashy CrapHole) Valley, WA Discount Tire shop fiasco some months ago I spoke with you about, where they used an impact wrench and ruined the wheel lug hardware on the right-rear hub .... and stretched some of teh remaining hardware ... sabotage, one wonders ...
The tire / wheels remained unbalanced. A 240 wagon feels best when all is balanced.
So, I visited the Spokane Valley, WA Firestone store. Told them of my fiasco with Discount Tire, a competitor of theirs.
I was told I could drop in on early Sat-your-day morning for a 50$ wheel balance this past Thursday.
Sat-your-day morning at 06:50 a manager asks if "some in a blue shirt" informed me. I replied no. An individual in a brown shirt (meaning he's a mechanic) informed me that I could drop in as Sat-Your-Day was wide open.
The guy in a blue shirt told me the brown-shirt people do not have access to the schedule in their, what would you call it, Tire / Wheel / Muffler Store Enterprise Resource and Point of Purchase System? The Baan, SAP, and Oracle ERP of tire stores?
So, I'd have to wait 4-5 hours if on a drop in.
I asked whether they could remove and replace the wheel lug hardware manually. He said it is Firestone / Bridgestone corporate policy to use an impact wrench. They then use a torque wrench (rhetorically asked)? To do what, back off the over torque applied by the impact wrench? What do they do, reduce impact torque to 20 lb-lbs? Beh.
So I left.
I've owned the li'l red 1990 Volvo 240 wagon since August, 2004. I have worked as a mechanic on all electromechanical systems of a car, generally, and the RWD Volvo 240, specifically.
I know when fastening hardware thread to thread interface is proper or off. I've replaced lug hardware when this has happened to others and myself, before.
The lug hardware was just fine on all twenty lugs before this event. No unique variance between teh stud and nut lug hardware, though when I do the work, I remove and replace the lug hardware back together in the same position.
So, I'll consider it sabotage by Discount Tire, and that the tire / wheel stores are not so much an ally for the vintage auto owner.
If I did not know any better, one would imagine intentional sabotage. Mal-placed suspicion? Oh, yet I know better.
I'll check around to see if any stores would manually remove teh lug hardware.
Or do it myself. Carry the tires to the store for balance, unless the next effort is sabotaged.
FYI.
cheers,
dud.
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The Volvo 164: The Mightiest of All Automobiles in Perpetuity
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A few years back I had four snows bought online from Tire Rack mounted and balanced at Goodyear. Not only did they strip two lug nuts, but they also picked up the front of the car,not on the frame but the floor boards. Luckily it was a rust free and only bent up the sheet metal a few inches. An easy fix with a sledge.
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OMG!
Yeah, yet they damaged your Volvo.
So, did they make for recompense?
Hope so.
Hope you were able to fix the sheet metal and seal it all up so it does NOT rust!?!?!?!?
Thank you.
Duffed.
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The Volvo 164: The Mightiest of All Volvo Automobiles in Perpetuity
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I take the 80 Ft/Lb Harbor freight torque stick with me and tell them to use it when they are mounting the tires. They have always cooperated even though they
might not know what it is. (It is a certainty that they don't care)
The tire guys may torque your lugs to 800 ft/lbs so when you get a flat,
an ordinary tire iron is useless. Then you need an impact socket, a min 1/2"
breaker bar, and a hunk of fence post to either have the lug come loose or snap it off.
Too bad there's no lawyers around that had their Lexus lugs crunched to 800 ft/lbs. Maybe a few trips to small claims court might improve the attitude
of those retarded tire gorillas.
Bill
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Bill,
Agreed, wholly.
When I did suspension work as mechanic, I'd use a 4-way cross tire iron.
I'd inspect the thread for damage and clean it; both interfaces.
I'd start the lug hardware thread by hand, and spin them on just nice, and apply proper torque in the crossing pattern, and once around to verify even torque.
I'd come across some lugs sets on a 200 or 700 or 100 series, mind you, this is 1985+ or so, and these could be over torqued. I'd see the lug nuts distorted, and a smearing of metal between the taper at the inside end of the lug nut outer diameter that centers in on the receiving hole on the wheel. But nothing to damage an alloy or steelie Volvo wheel, or other car brand.
The 4-way cross tire iron is balanced and easy-fast to spin the lug hardware to snug.
Then the torque stick.
Thank you.
SW WA-State Duffed, sees Portlandia Southerly over the mighty radioactive Columbia River, Courtesy of your SW-WA Hanford Nuclear Disaster Area Site.
Craft brews DELUXE! A pint or two on me, folks? Fulton Pub on SW Nebraska?
McMenamin's on the River in the 'Couve?
Kell's in Portland for some Irish Trad.
Oh my gosh, we're in CIVILIZATION, folks.
Time to get another Volvo 240, with manual transmission. See the Portland and Seattle Craigslist. OMG! OMG! OMG!
My God man, we're in RWD Volvo Country!
Or maybe Bat Country! Hunter S. Thompson!
WA-State Route 14 is AWESOME!!!!!! Mighty WA state!!!!!!!
And nearby is the Oregon Volvo Tuners!!!!!!!!!!!! www.ovt.org!!!!
Ok, sorry. Glad to be here. Happy Thursday Everybody!
Wanna tune me some of them Volvos!!!!!!
Please hug your Volvo today!
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The Volvo 164: The Mightiest of All Volvo Automobiles in Perpetuity
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I suspect the reason most chain stores use impact wrenches is for speed and health/safety. Power tools are now part of our culture. I swear that most people under 40 wouldn't know how to use a manual screwdriver. As for torque, the torque sticks are probably reliable enough. However, they still have to use the right one. Volvos have an unusually low torque spec which all mechanics may not know. When I first got mine I warped the rotors and stretched the studs by using the same 100 lb-ft torque as my Camaro, which has the same diameter and pitch studs.
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1992 745, >500k km
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I have used Discount Tires because they are just 3 miles from the house. I liked the prior manager, the new manager not so much. I digress.
The lug nut people use impact wrenches at about 50psi after starting a thread by hand. Then they torque them by hand, after consulting a torque book. Never the less, I always re-torque them when I get home to be on the safe side. I also put a dab of never sieze on the flange that touches the wheel and on the far end of the threads.
As to the balancing, go back to Discount tires and tell them to do it again. I have been known to go back several times until I was satisfied.
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My back feels better when I sit in a Volvo seat
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Hi KlausC,
Thank you.
The Spokane Valley, WA Discount Tire manager was in no way helpful. He had the estimate in his hand, yet crumpled it up.
He said he was going to call a tow truck to get rid of my car or some such.
The impact wrench they used was set to such an impact torque, like I aforementioned, it warped the brake rotors on three or all four hubs.
I performed a complete brake service on the 1990 Volvo 240 DL li'l red wagon perhaps some months before.
The Spokane Valley, WA was not helpful, did not offer to remedy the sabotaging damage, even when I pleased the he was culpable.
Thanks to Sven, Aaron, and folks at EuroPro Automotive. One of Sven's team mechanics replaced all five studs for like 70$. Well below his hourly rate. I balked, and said I should pay in full for at least an hour. Sven retorted it was no problem, did not take an hour at all. An easy fix, and he's glad to help a customer.
The guy that did the damage showed no remorse. He seemed to enjoy it.
Like I said, sabotage. See the Beastie Boys.
Thanks,
MacDuffy's Tavern: Now in Vancouver, WA, a.k.a., the 'Couve.
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The Volvo 164: The Mightiest of All Volvo Automobiles in Perpetuity
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I buy all my tires from a local guy who is into old cars. I remove the wheels and bring them to him. He mounts and balances the tires. I take them home and install them.
His torque stick can vary by 20% (80-100 lb-ft), not to mention that they are too damn tight to get off with the tools in the car. A jack and a spare tire do me no good if I can not remove the flat tire.
IMHO, You are getting carried away replacing the same lug nuts on the same studs. Interchangeable hardware was developed in the 1800s and has performed acceptable well for years.
Greg
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Yes, I understand that I may be a little obsessive about lug hardware placement and matching them each time to the mating lug hardware.
If I replace a lug stud on a RWD Volvo hub, that is OEM, and already balances with the remaining four lugs, I'll run the lug nuts around to compare with the new lug nut. To get a feel for thread and stud stretch over time, usually caused by over torque. So, I'd replace other lugs.
Yet now I'd replace them in sets of five.
To get an idea of how much force the impact wrench was set to at the stupid Spokane Valley, WA Discount Tire, all four brake rotors, that were perfectly straight after I performed a complete brake service to this 1990 Volvo 240 DL li'l red wagon, are now all warped.
Now, how much impact force would do that, as well as strip the the lug hardware thread on three of five North American market passenger side rear on a 1990 Volvo 240 DL li'l red wagon? I know the lug hardware was just fine.
You can form metal fatigue at the lug thread interface, yet is wheel lug hardware now a wear item? If always properly torqued? BS.
The FireStone store manager also said it is the lug hardware age. At 25 years old, the old lugs are meant to fail while at a tire store during removal and reinstall. BS.
With the modern day car crappy quality nonsense, and the cheap alloys, and the smaller diameter lug hardware, what does the Spokane Valley Discount Tire store do then?
By my estimation, and having used many pneumatic tools, the impact was set to at 200 ft-lbs force.
I was so angry, yet sleepy, at the Discount Store tire employee degenerate punk I was going to soft shoe this degenerate individual. (The Spokane region is nothing but a host of trashy degenerates and corruption. The blanket condemnation is true. Yet this is a national issue.) The Discount Tire manager interceded, and did not follow up with any notion of repair or service to correct their fault.
Yes, I agree, swap tires, or leave the raised body on the lift, if I had one, and drive them to the store to balance them.
The wheel and tires were never balanced.
There you go.
Thanks,
MacDuffed.
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The Volvo 164: The Mightiest of All Volvo Automobiles in Perpetuity
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