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After 27 continuous years of 240 wagon ownership, I closed that chapter today. My first was Rumblegutz, an '88 which I surrendered at 250K (still on its original clutch, but it got rear-ended). Its successor, Son o' Gutz, was a '92 which is on its way to a new home with 275K on it. There were just too many niggling things to take care of which were competing for my time, chief among them the marginal AC system. Here in the desert it's just no fun to come home with a sweat-soaked shirt every workday. Its new home will be in the SF bay area where strong AC isn't a critical need.
I haven't abandoned Bricks, although I might be accused of going over to the dark side: the new ride is an '08 XC70.
I'll still be on BB although making new acquaintances in the AWD section. I only hope the knowledge base and depth of experience is as strong over there as it is here!
Smitty
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The end of an era is not always the true end. About two years ago I bought a 2001 V70XC (big mistake) and sold my 1979 245 (another big mistake). I also got rid of a good deal of my 240 parts stash. (Yes, also a mistake) After spending a great deal of time and money on the XC, I became fed up. Too many computers and software. I sold the XC about a year after I bought it (at about $2000 of loss) and bought an 1989 240 GL sedan. About a week ago, I bought a beautiful 1987 245 DL. An era revived. Yes, the 240's have their share of frustrations, but they are frustrations that I can see coming, diagnose, and resolve on my own.
I will say that the V70 was physically the most comfortable car I have ever driven. Psychologically, however, it was very uncomfortable.
--
1966 122s, 1968 142s, 1969 144s, 1979 245dl, 2001 V70 XC
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Sorry to hear it, Smitty. I've enjoyed your input immensely over the past ten years or so that I've been checking this board. (Wasn't it you that inspired me to make my own heim joint endlinks?)
I see fewer and fewer beater 240s on the road or on Craigslist, and only a few $4000 - $5000 examples of well-cared-for vintage Volvos. I think at 22 years old for the youngest of them, we can safely call our 240s "vintage" now, right?
My '93 sedan is as good as ever, and my '92 wagon (formerly Jorrell's, who I think also has an XC70) is also going strong (but with a few quirks). I think I can easily squeeze another 10 years out of them without major work (I don't consider tranny swaps major work on old 240s - just regular maintenance). As ever, the more difficult part will be keeping them looking good too.
My wife (of 1 year now) is adamant that once we have kids we WILL be buying something newer and safer. I have reminded her many times that countless children survived through the years riding in a 240, but she is sure it is a death-sentence for a baby.
I have driven newer vehicles at work and I hate every one of them. Not sure what I'm going to do when it comes time . . .
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Sean, yep, that was me with the Heim-joint swaybar links - good memory, and thanks for the kind remarks. Hey, I didn't even know Jorrell gave up his "IPD'd to the hilt" ride, but I know it's in good hands now!
What was surprising was that I posted ol' SOG both here and on the IPD classifieds. I thought for sure the RWD fans here would be all over it, but nope - I got 3 hits from IPD and zero from here. And the buyer flew out to Phoenix from the SF Bay area to buy my car and drive it home! I viewed the sale as more of an adoption, since I wanted the old boy to go to a good home, and I think he's found one.
It's been a good ride. I'll still check in heer from time to time, so keep 'em running, Sean!
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Gentlemen,
My two wonderful children have totaled three 240's. My son was hit twice and my daughter once. In each instance they walked away believe me they understand Volvo's strengths.
My son has a 92 240 with 130k. The daughter has a 2000 grand marquis her choice not mine.
I drive a 1995 940 120k that you could not buy from me, it goes to my son after I go through it again.
Volvo's saves lives pure and simple. I am forever looking fore replacements.
Mordred
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Smitty,
If the 240 withdrawal symptoms become unbearable, I'm ready to sell my '87 wagon. It's automatic, with cold A/C, 153K miles, 3rd seat, etc. It's currently on CL in San Antonio.
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Hi Smitty,
End of an era for you, and a whole lot of other peeps. The number of 240's have certainly diminished so that I rarely see one as I travel hundreds of miles along the I-95 corridor.
We just lost, at least in part, Ken C and look at the inactivity on this board. If not for a few diehards...
Unfortunately, you will find that the V and XC models are not so easy to work on. PCV system is do-able but not like the 240 as the entire intake has to be removed. I have been struggling with VIDA-Dice for diagnostic and adaptation purposes. For example, you have to reset the computer after flushing the tranny. Oh well, a sign of the times. Sad, though.
Come visit us on the BB, though,
Marty
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I har yah Smitty. I leet go of my last 245 last year. I did go over to the dark side with a Bimmer. And I love the car. But it just wasn't the same anymore, and I wanted my RWD vehicle. Definitely the end of an era....
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Hi Smitty,
I've been going since August 1985 with my first 1975 Volvo 244 DL, M40, B20 F Metric (wish I had it now, it'd go into a another wished for 130 GT!).
I see a 1992 Volvo 240 Wagon, silver, with M47 II stick, and 120,000 miles for 4000$ in Everett, WA. And then I run through the host of restoration it shall need. I've never brought these three 1990+ Volvo 240s up to stage 0, even. I did with the first four 240s, with repacked rear wheel bearings. Even replaced strut mounts and steering column U-joints, or that was when I turned wrenches on Volvos in St. Louis, maybe.
The RWD Volvos had been in the family, now that they are all dead, at least the family members that were kind to me, started with a 1973 Navy Blue 164e, BW35, and the mighty and powerful B30 F. I started learning on that 1973 Volvo 164 E.
Your post, Smitty, and Onkel's post on the want of something more sporty and possibly modern again hails the spectre that there is a season for even RWD Volvos.
And I yet I don't like the new cars, any make and model.
The brickboard RWD and other RWD Volvo board activity is not getting any more active.
Quite a contrast from like 13 years ago.
Well, good luck with teh 2008 Volvo XC 70.
Let me know when Torslanda builds 164s again. Never.
Depressing.
Thanks,
Duff Beer.
--
I want my Forever RWD Volvo Made in Europa!
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I also had a '73 164E with the BW35. It has always been my favorite, despite a host of drawbacks -- there was just something about that car, or maybe just because it was our very first brand new car. I, and later with my wife, had already bought many used cars, all domestic (mostly Chevy, and a few Dodges), but in '73 we bought our first brand new car, first foreign car, and first Volvo, all in one. What a feel, and what a smell inside -- all that real leather (it was dark green, with a light tan interior)!
That same summer we took it on a ~8,000 mile summer vacation (I was a grad student and she was a teacher) across the country from NJ to the Rocky Mtn states, up and down from N.M. & AZ all the way up to WY, and we saw almost every Nat'l park and monument between Carlsbad Caverns (and Mesa Verde) and Yellowstone. Forty two years ago -- I'm sure they're all a lot more crowded nowadays!
And yes, that B30F engine was amazing -- out west we hit 113 mph at times on the open roads.
Of course, in the ensuing years it gave us a lot of problems: did you ever encounter any of these?
1) leaking fuel injector hoses, squirting gasoline all over the hot engine! [more times than I can count -- after a few years the dealer came up with a fix, replacing the OEM hoses that had fittings with simple hoses and clamps!]
2) the air conditioning compressor's bracket snapping off the engine, rendering it and also the power steering dead! This happened about a half dozen times, requiring the dealer to "easy out" the broken bolts each time. Can't say they ever really solved that.
3) an EGR valve that almost defied diagnosis, causing the car to stall whenever it was stopped (traffic light, stop sign). Finally solved by a zone rep.
4) a stalling engine on the highway. Finally diagnosed and solved by replacing the small fuel strainer under the fuel tank -- it was being sucked closed (and collapsing) by fuel draw -- probably one of the two reasons why they later went to an in-tank transfer pump.
Of course, there were also these drawbacks:
1) really lousy initial acceleration at the traffic light Grand Prix -- thank you, BorgWarner.
2) in hot weather, it couldn't get out of its own way with vapor lock -- the likely second reason that they added an in-tank transfer pump in later cars.
3) when the transmission had shifted up from 1st into 2nd, there was no way to get it back down into 1st without coming to a complete stop -- so on really slow moving switchbacks on the "Million Dollar Highway" (Rt 550 in CO) with varying speeds from slow to moderate (and needed gear changes between 1 and 2), the car couldn't climb the steep grades in the mountain passes without first coming to a complete stop (and holding back traffic), which was very embarrassing! Thank you again, BorgWarner.
Not a drawback, but I learned to adjust valve lash on it (the domestic cars I used to have used hydraulic lifters); and also adjust points (electronic distributor came in '74 or '75), mostly trial and error, and which was much harder than on my previous GM cars which had a window on the distributor gap to fine tune the points with a dwell meter while the engine was running.
Ahh, those were the days!!! :-)
So, any of this sound familiar?
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Uncle Ken C.
Thank you.
113 MPH in a 1973 Volvo 164e with BW-35?
That B30 engine was probably up to like 4500 RPM?? Or sustained speed?
I'd been in a few 164s, not driving them, I was too young, at over 130+ MPH, and the damn thing flew, much to my profound and aggravating discomfort.
(I could tell you of other 1973 Navy Blue Volvo 164e drive arounds, with a now dead family relative, in St. Louis in the 1970s and early 1980s, yet these are not all pleasant stories.)
I'll bet the handling, even in a straight line, got squirrelly. All that Bernoulli's principle lifting that mighty and powerful 1973 Volvo 164e off teh ground.
Yes, I'd been in several 164s. Just to touch the metal alloys of the engine block. The so fine metallurgy Volvo pioneered for so many other industrial applications. Nordics have such an affinity for metallurgy and optics and such. Iron alloy block and iron alloy cylinder head. At least we have BMW that has in no way deviated from the I-6 and RWD platform.
Like ABB of Sweden, the largest corporation globally to build out electrical power grids today (what I want to do, too). Rather reside in Sweden, too. Or Norway. Just and verdant and peaceful nations bringing value into their sovereign nations for the good of the nation and all her citizens. These are true Republics today with genuine democratic processes.
But I don't want to stoopid hackable cars. I hate the new cars and that is one of the reasons.
So, can some ethical hacker do the same to similarly equipped modern Volvo Made in China or elsewhere? Probably a back door coded in there someplace.
Oh, yeah, the Borg Warner 35, while reliable, with care, was an epitome of the automatic transmission slush box, yet a durable and a heavy beast, with no electronics, thankfully, in there. I like the M410 in spite of the minor problems, though parts are problem as our dear, dear, dear brickboard friend George Downs lamented many times. I'll not meet him and his 164 collection. Hoped to. At least the other fellow and brickboard member now owns the Yellow Peril. A 122 GT? I really love the colors on the Volvo 110/120/130 series. Well, all the paint colors before the sale to Ford.
It would be swell to consider a beefier transmission, if it could be mated, and we had stoopid money falling from the skies, and not sent to foreign nations so undeserving. The M56 or M90, if adaptable. The Ford T-5, if useful. The 5 speed manual transmission from the final years of the Toyota Supra.
Except the 164 has such elegance, something like the Wolseley 6/99, which had some Italian and Teutonic influence on that wholly English auto face. Some Rolls-Royce and Bentley models had that same front, yet the Nordic approach to the 164e face, seems so unique, to me.
I hate to see You Bube Toob videos of people drifting in any RWD Volvo, certainly any OHV Volvo models.
The lines of the 164 are that of a peaceful and prospering nation, like all RWD Volvos. Ever see the pre-WWII German cars? These are war-making fascist designs. You see this on American cars now like the Dodge Charger or Challenger, the new Chevy Camero, and the new Ford Mustang.
Yet, like the heavier 140/160 and newer Volvo RWD models, in spite of a not so powerful engine, the moving mass becomes efficient at highway speed. I know, not the lowest coefficient drag. And while some manner or front air dam or valance, and perhaps slightly lowered, would improve on the high speed travel, and improve fuel economy with lower emissions.
I'm unsure whether there was a belly pan that came on 140/164 models. It would help, in addition to some other aerodynamic improvements, but the 164 lines are so classic from any viewing angle. And that dark, deep, Navy Blue, when well polish, would reflect like a black mirror. (Cuing Nostradamus. Ha!)
1) Oh yeah. I recall very clearly the six short fuel lines between the fuel rail and the D-Jetonic fuel injectors. You'd constantly check and adjust the hose clamps. Why a modern engine control system may be an improvement, or a practiced mechanic modification using modern materials and components with the D-Jetronic injection / ignition. We can't have variable valve timing, yet a healthy B30 mass is so under-stressed in factory stock form. But I don't care for green light launch control. I pleased with the stock 1990+ 240 with M47 II. I don't care to travel much beyond posted speed limits or as prima fascia conditions warrant when motoring.
2. Indeed with the vapor lock in hot weather causing the main fuel pump to lose prime. A strong spring-loaded fuel accumulator could help. The in-tank transfer pump of course helps!
3. No, I did not know that BW-35 foible at all! Thank you. I lack any real distance motoring experience in the Volvo 164. We did go from St. Louis to Chicago once or twice as the family relative pounded I-55 into submission when he worked at Riddell football helmet company in Chicago. That's flatlander driving. I'd like teh mountain driving, complete with LOL Cats as Chauffeurs. Or, we can drive on Bolinas Ridge Road in Marin County, CA, where all the car commercials are shot. We can have a good rest and a rewfresher while enjoying Dad O'Rourke's Bench at the South end of Bolinas Ridge. When the fog is in, you can feel at utterly land's end, with barely the two tower tops (ooh, alliteration!) of the mighty Golden Gate bridge in view.
His care of that Navy Blue 1973 164e dropped off in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I used to voluntarily wash the thing to the owner-relative's specifications, doing better than he. I'd hope to inherit the car, much less anything else. Oh well. I have some socks and some shoes of his.
Yet I do have an enduring love of the RWD Volvo.
I still have my Dwell / Tach meter that we used in the 1970s and early 1980s, or something to adjust the new points, or readjust the point gap. Or merely gently polish off the pits. Had to do that a lot, and I got good at it with the feeler gauges I still have (oooh, inheritance! you should see what the others stole, i mean, got.)
Yet, in the early 1980s, Mr. Drunky family relative, probably after two fifths of some Glen Fiddich scotch, plowed off the road, over a foot high concrete embankment in Fenton, MO.
Per the safety and honesty that the great and mighty Volvo founders, Assar Thorvald Nathanael Gabrielsson and Erik Gustaf Larson, examples by which the leaders of nations and industry should follow, mandated in them Volvo automobiles, before every single automobile manufacturer planet wide did so, the suspension tore away from the traveling body, the engine and transmission broke free from the body. The brakes at the time of the Volvo 164e death worked fine. (We had bled the brakes about every 2-3 years). The black tire marks suggest he was traveling at about 90 MPH on the road two lane road near the polluted Meramec River on a two lane road in Fenton.
As he was well known all over MO and IL by all levels of lawful enforcement, from the municipal to the feds, and I met these people often, yet left when the cigarette smoke billowed, as he was regaled as a "silent" or "unknown" hero for what he did in China and Russia, well, for his good works in service and sacrifice to this nation, they forgave him in the DUI/DWI. You could say he suffered massive shell shock from his time in service. He had been tortured in Chinese prison. He got a minor tickets for excess speed and some property damage. They understood and cared for each other. The only mark on him was a third-eye like dot when, as his head came forward and bounced on a ring on his right ring finger, during the collision. I have the ring, yet would like the 164, more so.
Yet the face of his Mighty and Powerful Volvo 164e was wholly untouched when in the police impound yard.
Seeing the chassis on the ground in the police impound yard was wholly heart breaking. This was in 1984. Huh, like George Orwell yet today. Or Frank Church and his Committee in the 1970s.
Entendres abound here. Some literal. All true. We adhere to the truth.
His next Volvo was a röd brun 1979 Volvo 245 DL, named Pumpkin (or Punkin or Punky) with the BW or AW 55? Stock B21 F. A little easier to care for. I miss the fan roar as it was far louder then the well tuned B21 F.
The 1979 Volvo 245 DL outlived him. Oh well.
Yep, I also adjusted valve on that and other B30 engines, the B20, and the OHC cam engines. They sound best when in good, cared for tune, and you get better fuel economy, more responsive power, and cleaner emissions.
Just be sure to pull the head and replace the value seats with modern ones for unleaded fuels, as we all know.
Hate the new cars.
Time for a new job in Switzerland.
cheers,
dud.
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The Volvo 164: The Mightiest of All Volvo Automobiles in Perpetuity
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