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Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

posted by  83GLT on  Wed May 27 07:27 CST 2015
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last visit: Fri Jun 13 10:56 CST 2014
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Seems as though it's one thing after another. After getting the 245 back on the road from a long stay in the repair bay, the M47 has developed a noise. The symptoms very closely match those described in this thread:

https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=633433&show_all=1

When in gear with the clutch pedal out (not depressed) I can hear a clickety-clack sound. I was going to describe it as a helicopter sound, but clickety-clack/sewing machine might be more apt. I can hear it in all gears, loudest in the lower gears. The sound disappears almost immediately when I press in the clutch pedal regardless of gear. I hear it as well with the car in neutral, idling, standing still or coasting. The sound only goes away when I depress the clutch pedal.

Is this a case of a simple fix, a bearing kit? The clutch was replaced approximately 100,000 miles ago. I have a 1200 mile round trip that is imminent, and don't have time to address this beforehand. Is this folly?








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    Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

    uid 46171's pic
    posted by  kittysgreyvolvo on  Wed May 27 08:33 CST 2015
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    last visit: Sat Oct 18 15:23 CST 2014
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    The sound disappears almost immediately when I press in the clutch pedal regardless of gear.

    My guesses ....

    1. Throwout Bearing. Very bad throwout bearing.

    (When you come to an enduring stop, take the transmission out of gear, and take your foot off the clutch pedal. May that habitually leave their foot to press the clutch pedal at enduring stops, like stop lights, keeping the clutch disengaged, will greatly shorten throwout bearing and clutch fork pivot.

    If the transmission is misaligned during installation, placing some stress on the transmission input shaft, habitually leaving the clutch pedal depressed can accelerate bearing wear of the input shaft in even slightly misaligned flywheel - clutch - transmission input shaft assemblies)

    2. Less likely: Input shaft bearing

    (Hallmark of extreme input shaft bearing wear is leaking fluid as the wandering of off-center input shaft wears the seal much faster.)

    3. Less, less likely: Clutch fork pivot point, though the M47 clutch fork can also fatigue and break. More so if the clutch cable adjustment for proper free play is not maintained, leaving the clutch cable under tension at all times.

    https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/TransmissionManual.htm

    You need a throwout bearing to shift, at least. So you may be pulling the transmission.

    I do not envy you, this job, on the small transmission tunnel that is the 240.

    Depress and release the clutch cable only when you need to engage and disengage through gears. Do not keep the clutch pedal depressed for enduring stops. Doing so is just neglectful of the clutch and transmission components.

    You probably know this already and do so. I only mention it for posterity.

    Sorry for your heavy mechanicals you gotta deal with, 83GLT. At least you mete out them repairs with gusto and illustration.

    cheers,

    B.








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      Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

      posted by  Volvo From Heck on  Wed May 27 10:08 CST 2015
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      last visit: Mon Oct 13 20:56 CST 2014
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      OP wrote--"The sound disappears almost immediately when I press in the clutch pedal regardless of gear."

      kittysgreyvolvo wrote--"My guesses ....

      1. Throwout Bearing. Very bad throwout bearing."

      I hate to disagree (but of course not being disagreeable) - but a noisy (bad) release bearing will show up when stepping on the clutch pedal (that's when the input shaft should stop turning and the release bearing starts turning). OP's problem probably lies in the input shaft bearing. -- Dave








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        Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

        posted by  83GLT on  Wed May 27 13:29 CST 2015
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        last visit: Fri Jun 13 10:56 CST 2014
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        Thank you for your replies. I will investigate. I only noticed the noise in the last couple hundred miles, though it may have been something there that I didn't catch. But I doubt it. I'm pretty sure it's relatively new.

        Can I get away with driving it like this for a couple thousand more miles? Until I have the time/opportunity to address it?








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          Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

          posted by  trichard on  Wed May 27 13:48 CST 2015
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          last visit: Fri Oct 24 05:52 CST 2014
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          i think your transmission is on the way out. they are not worth rebuilding as the cost of parts is too high. start looking around for another but to be direct good m47's are getting hard to find so start looking.

          my guess would shaft to case bearings.

          it a bit late to ask but have you checked the ""level"" of your fluid any time recently?








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            Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

            posted by  83GLT on  Wed May 27 14:42 CST 2015
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            last visit: Fri Jun 13 10:56 CST 2014
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            No. I haven't personally checked the fluid in a few years honestly. But I if I recall a mechanic checked for me not all that long ago and said it was fine.

            Can you imagine? After all the work I've been putting into the car lately, and the transmission wants to go?

            Does anyone recall my question of should I push it into the ravine in front of the house when the caliper bolt broke? Maybe I should have.

            I'm not having any issues changing gears. It's smooth enough with no slippage or grinding. I don't ride it either.

            I REALLY need to drive this car on a 1200 mile trip this weekend, the vast majority cruising in 5th on the interstate. I know it's impossible for anyone to say with certainty what MIGHT happen, but can I make this trip in this condition without worry?

            Simply replacing bearings won't fix the transmission? It really needs to be completely rebuilt?

            Maybe this is an opportunity to put in a 240 turbo engine with an M46 - or just push it into the ravine.








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              Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

              posted by  someone claiming to be CB on  Wed May 27 19:07 CST 2015 [RELATED]

              "No. I haven't personally checked the fluid in a few years honestly. But I if I recall a mechanic checked for me not all that long ago and said it was fine"
              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

              The best way to get a clue about the condition of the tranny is to get a large plastic pan, preferably light colored, like a Kitty Litter pan from the grocery store, and drain the fuild into that clean pan.

              Then take a good look at the fluid.

              Look for shinny metal particles in the fluid, both steelish looking and ones that are obviously brass.

              What color is the fluid? redish or is it going dirty brown.

              How much metal has been captured by the magnet on the drain plug. Are there Chunks or just very fine grindings.

              Brass is the syncros, steel is bearings and gears.

              Have on hand 3 quarts of Redline MTL to refill...using 2 and 1/2 quarts. At least you will have clean fluid running in it for your trip.







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                Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

                posted by  83GLT on  Mon Jun 1 20:16 CST 2015
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                last visit: Fri Jun 13 10:56 CST 2014
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                I ended up renting a car for the trip. I did check the fluid anyway before hand and the level was right up to the filler plug. So the level was fine. There weren't any large particles on the magnetic filler plug, but I won't know the full extent of the condition until I drain the fluid.

                I spoke to someone else who thought it could be the pressure plate? But I don't have any problems shifting.








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                  Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

                  uid 46171's pic
                  posted by  kittysgreyvolvo on  Mon Jun 1 20:31 CST 2015
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                  last visit: Sat Oct 18 15:23 CST 2014
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                  The springy fingers pointing toward the center in the pressure plate can fatigue, bend, and break.

                  The clutch disk has springs in it, yes? These can break, I think.

                  These can fail if the prior owner keeps a foot to depress the clutch at anytime the engine is running, yet the car is stopped. Same cause to the throwout bearing failing.

                  I sort of doubt you can see much with merely the inspection plate off the bell housing. Fiber optic camera.

                  The input shaft bearings can fail really fast of the clutch kit is not properly aligned (concentrically). Many folks with mal-align the transmission input shaft, in spite of the alignment pins where the bell housing meets the engine. Why it's so good to have a really beefy transmission jack reinstalling the transmission. I hate doing transmissions in 240.

                  cheers,

                  dud.








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                Transmission Noise - Bearings? 200 1992

                posted by  jwalker on  Fri May 29 07:21 CST 2015
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                last visit: Fri Jun 6 08:39 CST 2014
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                Good advice. If you have to drive it, drain and refill with synthetic.

                Personally, I wouldn't drive it. Have you considered a cheapo rental car? Why risk breaking down on the road. That will cost you a lot of money and I certainly wouldn't want that aggravation...

                --
                Current - 95 855 GLT Sportwagon 255k, Formerly - 90 244 DL 300k, 93 854 GLT 108k







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