Hi all,

Not having a good day and need some help.

Ran some errands in the car and brought it home. Sat about an hour in the garage. I proceeded to an oil change (probably involving sitting for another 40 minutes). I started it up for about 3 minutes after getting the oil re-filled. Checked oil level.

I then proceeded to drain coolant which was warm but not hot. Refilled with a Prestone flush cleaner and water.

Started car and backed it out - all was well - made sure the water was topped off after water pump kicked in and coolant was flowing.

Later tonight I took the car out for dinner. On the way I noticed all this white smoke coming out of the tailpipe. To me this signifies coolant is burning in the engine. Does this mean I have a cracked head?

Oil does not appear to have water in it. Coolant reservoir still appears full. It may have been driven about 12 miles like this.

Is there any other issue(s) other than some catastrophic internal issue? I have flushed other coolants and never had an issue. The engine was not super hot when I did this but perhaps it needed to be totally cold?

Check the spark plugs and see if any one of them is cleaner than the others.

Watch your coolant level for a drop or oil contamination residue in the reservoir to be on the safe side.

Hopefully, all you have is excess moisture build up in the exhaust system from too many short drives.
12 miles divided up is not near enough to to cook out these exhaust systems.

The rear muffler is huge and so far away from a smallish four cylinder engine.
There were 360 cubic inch V8's in the early 70's, with a single exhaust, that ran only one about that size. Also in the days before converters!

Probably why the rears go bad more often than the front muffler and of course that catalytic heat sink!
Drive more, worry less first!

Phil

White smoke seems to have gone away - in a few miles of driving up to operating temp.

But now there appears to be new issues. The temp gauge suddenly just gave no reading while I was driving. Almost like the temp sensor isn't reading right.

But now this makes me wonder if there are air pockets which are causing faulty temp sensor signals. I will drain the water I have in there and try again when engine is cold.

Can someone advise me on the proper drain method? I always have just used the engine block drain and emptied everything with this. Should I be pulling the lower rad hose first and then doing the block also?

You only need to drain it from the petcock when draining the system. You do not need to drain it now. Volvo red blocks can get air pockets (especially in the heater core) but are not difficult to bleed. Open the heater valve. Fill the reservoir to a normal level. Give the lower hose a few squeezes and if bubbles come up to the reservoir lowering the level bring it back to normal. Run the motor while keeping an eye on the temp gauge and feeling when the thermostat opens (grasp the upper hose to tell). Most times you'll see the temp gauge rise just before the thermostat opens--then it will drop as the coolant in the radiator moves into the block. While it's warming up check to see if the heat comes up (set to defrost for an easy reach). Give the lower hose a few more squeezes. If it hasn't come up by the time the thermostat opens hold the idle high (2,000 rpm or so). A minute or two of that will push an air blockage out of the heater. Top up the reservoir when done. -- Dave

I'd just like to add:

1) re "...Most times you'll see the temp gauge rise just before the thermostat opens--then it will drop as the coolant in the radiator moves into the block...." Later cars, '85-on, that still have the Temperature Compensation Board (something worth removing) will not show the gauge fluctuation that you describe.

2) re air pockets, it helps to point out that the thermostat should be installed so that the air bleed hole (either a ball valve or jiggle pin, depending on the brand) is at the high point as the thermostat sits canted in the housing -- rotate it accordingly before putting on the cover. This will help bleed remaining air bubbles out of the system over time.

Machine man thanks for your help as always.'

Will pull the plugs and report back. So far the coolant reservoir looks OK and so does the oil. Albeit clean oil from an oil change, but I presume it would be pretty obvious to an amateur if there was oil/water together on the dipstick. Both oil and coolant are full. Coolant may be too full as a matter of fact and I will siphon some out.

Will take some more trips out and keep an eye on things. Ahead of doing the coolant flush I drove probably 25 miles or 30 miles and warmed it up good. I am wondering if there might not be a small hole in the exhaust system where the antifreeze drain pours out - keeping my fingers crossed that some moisture just worked its way into the exhaust system from that.

Very concerned still though that I somehow added coolant to an engine that was slightly too warm and cracked the head or something drastic like this. I had always presumed the engine just couldn't be piping hot, but didn't need to be dead cold. I also have some Prestone antifreeze flush with water mixed in there now. Is it possible the cleaner did some damage to a head gasket?

'' I also have some Prestone antifreeze flush with water mixed in there now. Is it possible the cleaner did some damage to a head gasket? ''


I suggest you get totally rid of that antifreeze flush. I believe these contain aggressive chemicals that will clean surfaces almost to bare metal. Any left may corrode your radiator and worst of all your heater core.

The way I proceed is as follows: I flush old antifreeze every 3 years and never use any chemicals. I open heater control valve, I disconnect the bottom rad hose, open the block drain valve,remove the thermostat. I disconnect one of the heater hose and flush with very low water pressure from the garden hose. Heater core must not be exposed to pressure more than 5 psi. I also flush engine through the thermostat hole and then flush radiator. It is a good idea every 6 years to remove the rad, lay it flat and spray a strong jet of water to expel sand, small rocks and dirt out, and at the same time check its condition.

I reconnect everything except I leave the thermostat hole open and watch the new coolant level in the engine hole. When liquid level is close I then install the thermostat with blue silicone on the gasket. I found this makes a good seal. Also, I put never seize on the 2 nuts.

I calculate how much coolant and water I add. I use distilled water or dehumidifier water. I let engine warm up with heater valve open. For a couple of days I carry a quart of coolant mixture in the trunk to top up if necessary.

This works for me.

Hi there, thanks for the mutual comment.

I thought about the possibility of a hot engine coolant change for a moment.

I have never thought about doing a coolant change under enough to enough heat that there was pressure! I seriously doubt you could have done that so the engine must have been somewhat cool?

Even with it nicely warm, by the time the old coolant left and you were able to refill it, the head would have lost heat.
Besides when you refilled it ,the new coolant comes up from the bottom of the cooling jackets and lastly into the head.
Aluminum gives up heat rather quickly compared to the iron. The iron would have warmed up the coolant as it filled.

As far as using a cleaner flush for a coolant system, my heart does not, warm up, to using any kind of thing like that.

If the system was maintained correctly there will never be a need for it ever!
Distilled water keeps rocks out and the newer GO5 OAK five year formulas are the way to go, since you got to go with them!

I stay away from pre-mixed as well!
They don't tell you squat about what kind of water source they use!
It's not their car and definitely no warranty of being better than the straight stuff.

Just easier for the "not knowing groups." Just as expensive as the straight stuff, that use to be only $7-8! The "Jack the Price Up" game was used against all customers, no matter the brands!
The Shipping and Handling costs, to put both on the shelf, are the same.

Hello, you still will need two gallons and what to do with the extra bottle you paid for? Crazy stuff, for the lazy & rich credit card bone heads!

I was told, by a radiator shop professional, that the cleaner flushes that Prestone makes is the best thing made for increasing their business.
You cannot or should not ever clean a block with a radiator attached. They make more powerful pumps and solutions that get totally removed not just sort of neutralized for that purpose!
Engine rebuilders use a dip tank IF it gets that far anymore!

Whatever was in the block, that might never ever get moved by normal pump circulation, goes right directly out into the radiator.
The radiator has small passages that act just like a trapping filter. They have seen loose deposits freshly laying right on top of tubes or on the bottom sides in our case.
The flow in the radiator was already to slow or spread out to go anywhere else to far from the pump!

If it plugs the tubes, then it's remove the radiator time!
Repair by Rodding or replace it all together.
Replacing is twice the cost but if the fins are flaking off, replace it!
Aluminum and "O" ring plastic capped ones are usually are not repaired!

If the engine is overheating to begin with its the thermostat, radiator or a pump!

After talking to him I realized that those "parts shelf cleaners" are like the modern invention used by plumbers, called the center piece of "sliced bread!" About as cheap to make too!

If they have a copper line dripping water that they want to solder up joints on, they pack it lightly it with bread and solder away!

When done they turn on the spicketts and the water turbulence flushes the wet bread out!

That is unless, you have washer hoses with screens and ice makers down the line. :-)

Always a caveat somewhere, like a radiator!

Just read your other post while I could still Edit!

Check the wiring to the front sensor. That wire can get flaky up to the gray firewall connector.

Squeezing the top hose should help burp air and show a level movement in the coolant reservoir.
Open the heater valve the next time you drive.

Air should and will rise to the highest point in the system after stopped.
The top hose is about as high as you can get.

Ongoing edit :-). Volvo from Heck covered it too! My aren't we active today!


Phil

Thanks for the help everyone.

Back up and working again. I had struggled a bit with my temp gauge bottoming out as soon as the thermostat kicked in. After squeezing the hoses and pushing as much air out of it as possible the temp gauge came back to life and reads fine now.

Appreciate everyone's help very much to a good end. The white smoke from the tailpipe oddly enough is the result of moisture entering the exhaust from the pepcock bleeder. Wonder if I have a small pinhole in which it is entering.

Only thing I need to confirm now is that the internal pressure is holding. Every time I have warmed the car up there is not much of a pressure release upon opening the coolant reservoir. Perhaps the engine just needs to be real hot for that to happen.

We are glad to see the post back and that the issues have resolved themselves.

I cannot agree with you analogy of coolant going inside the exhaust pipe though.

If there was a " pinhole" it would have to be one with a one way check valve built in.

You see an exhaust system runs with a positive pressure inside or what is call back pressure with the engine running. Any kind of hole will leak exhaust gases out and you should hear or even feel a puffing sound.

So, unless you know the car is louder in that area, I do not think you theory " holds water!" :-)

As far as the running pressure on the coolant system, it will be less than what the cap is rated or otherwise, you would have coolant vapor condensing on the outside, on top of the recovery bottle and losing coolant.

The actual blowing off any pressure or volume of gas is reduce to the space inside the recovery bottle and above the coolant.
That coolant in the bottle can be somewhat cooler than what's in the top of the radiator that come directly from the engine outlet.

The amount of water volume that can escape upwards is limited to what can be pushed through the smaller hoses connected to the recovery bottle.

The largest of the two, connects midway on the radiator, where heat has ready been given up.
The tiny line from the top of the radiator, that contains the hottest water is very limited to blow into the bottle.

That water temperature is not engine hot because of remoteness too!

Overall I think safety was in the designer mind which brings up another feature that I like and it is the wide neck opening!

It does not lend to create a nozzle effect if coolant were to be blow upwards. The coolant should only bubble up and flow a few inches, short term. Not turn into a geyser!

I tried to work on a relatives Honda or any such cars, that requires filling the radiator directly, with the use of an eye dropper type funnel.
Imagine the reverse of that with some force.

Could be so much as the hood brace might have to hold "on" to the hood and not just up! :-)

I really like the hoods on these cars because it holds itself. I don't have to keep dodging the rod!

Did the hot rod Dodge Motor company, come out with those first? :-)

Phil

No change in temp gauge yet either.

Oh and by the way there is no noticeable difference in temperature gauge at this time. Thank you for any help in advance