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I've been considering a 700/900 series for the past year as something a little more comfortable for highway travel to visit family. I haven't been too serious as I have too many 240 and need to sell one first.
Recently I posted one of my 240 that I don't drive or need and I had an interesting offer from someone on craigslist that has a 960 wagon and says they would like to do a straight trade. The 240 I'm selling was posted for $650 and has issues that need to be addressed like paint, tires, suspension and exhaust. It's no prize winner for sure.
The 960 that is being offered in trade looks considerably better on the exterior than my 240, but has some interior flaws. I'm wondering if this is a sign that the 960 is going to be more work than worth. The owner was up-front about shot nivomats in the rear, and I can see that would probably be an expensive fix from reading. I have yet to look at it in person, but am told that it runs fine and shifts smooth. That should eliminate the possibility of a snapped t-belt (making the vehicle worth little, as I have seen so many others on craigslist with a snapped t-belt for cheap). I'm hoping to take a look this weekend.
I've been a long time 240 owner and am confident and comfortable working on them myself. I read up on the 700/900 FQA and the phrase 'complicated systems' kept popping up in the FQA for 900 series. My main question is how needy and money hungry are the 960s if you DIY. I love the 240 because it is simple and parts can be found fairly cheap, especially with so many in the parts yards now. If the 960 is going to be a money pit, I'd like to just avoid that for now.
One last specific 965 question. I read in the FQA that the 940SE wagon had nivomat option but they could be replaced with springs from a 740 wagon. Does this hold true for the 960 wagosn also?
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'82 245 'worktruk', '83 244 Turbo, '86 244 'traktor', 83' 242 'volcamino'
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Look for a good 940. Almost the same as '89 and up 240 so many of the parts swap
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89 240 wagon, 94 940, 215K, 94 940, 141K
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From your previous post:
I've been a long time 240 owner and am confident and comfortable working on them myself. I read up on the 700/900 FAQ and the phrase 'complicated systems' kept popping up in the FQA for 900 series. My main question is how needy and money hungry are the 960s if you DIY. I love the 240 because it is simple and parts can be found fairly cheap, especially with so many in the parts yards now. If the 960 is going to be a money pit, I'd like to just avoid that for now.
Reading the above (and some between the lines), I don't think you realize that:
• The 940 and 960 have nothing in common except the "Volvo" name and a "9".
• The 740/940 line really has much in common with your 240: like the same B230F Engine, AW70/71 Auto tranny, and more.
I 'd say steer clear of the 965. I had 240s for years (V8 in the last one). But finally went to a '93 940 about 10 years ago and just passed 200,000 miles on it with no regrets.
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Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Thanks to everyone that responded.
As it wasn't a resounding 'yes, trade it' from everyone, I'm going to sell the 240 and put that cash into my other 240s instead.
Maybe someday in the future I'll try again at a 700/900. I was imagining the 900s would be closer the the 240s than they actually are. Before reading up, I was thinking the straight 6 in the 900s was the same old B30 block. I guess I should probably look at earlier model 740s for something more familiar to work on. Did the original 760GLE have the dreaded the PVR v6?
Thanks again everyone,
Alex
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'82 245 'worktruk', '83 244 Turbo, '86 244 'traktor', 83' 242 'volcamino'
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posted by
someone claiming to be Juan P.
on
Thu Apr 16 13:53 CST 2015 [ RELATED]
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H4L.9000,
The original 760 GLEs did come with the dreaded PRV "Douvrin" V-6 engine. That's one of the reasons why you hardly see any of the 1983-87 cars - the engines have all failed, or they've just died due to age. However, starting in mid-year 1987, Volvo began equipping 760 GLEs and 780 Bertones with the new and improved B280F engines. These motors, unlike the previous B28F mills, used Bosch LH-Jetronic management systems, rather than CIS, and were even-firing instead of odd. This eliminated the clogged oil passages, worn camshafts and blown head gaskets of the PRV's previous iterations. However, oil changes are a must on these engines and they must be done frequently.
As to inquiring about 740s, I would avoid 740 GLEs from 1985 to mid-year 1987 production. Why, do you ask? This is because the NA 740s used the fragile ZF 4HP22 automatic transmissions. If you rev one in Park or Neutral over 2500 rpm for a prolonged period of time, the transmission clutch packs will shatter (this is not an if, they WILL) and you'll be left with a blown gearbox. 1988 and up used the more reliable and durable AW71 transmission. I have both a 1986 and 1991 740, but like the '91 a lot more due to having the AW gearbox.
If you are indeed looking for a 740 or 940, does it matter to you if it is a Turbo or NA? Personally, I would avoid the Turbos.
-Juan P.
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Both Spook's and ChrisS' comments are right on the money. I have two 960 wagons and a 940. I have had a 240 in the past. The 960s are the best road cars I have ever had or driven. I personally wouldn't consider one earlier than 1995. The reasons are the timing belt was improved to allow a 70,000 mile interval. Due to the importance of keeping the belt changed, and the expense of doing it, this a big improvement. Also, the earlier aluminum engine blocks had some porosity issues. The 96 and later are even better due to side air bags and OBDII code output. Surprisingly one of the big things to look out for is a leaking heater core. It is a HUGE job to change.
John
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You would be trading up in cost for maintenance and complicated repairs, yes probably a nicer ride but it will cost you.
Dan
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Best cars Volvo has ever produced (ducks..).
Honestly, I have owned the 740, 760 and 260s and I much prefer the B6304 engines. Even if you have to do the timing belt, it's not the end of the world. The other issue to be aware of is the RMS leaking, which always happens on these cars now that they are on in years. Again, an expense to consider, but not a deal breaker in my opinion. Why? These cars give the best ride of almost any other car I have driven in, including M-Bs and Bimmers. True, they don't handle quite as well as the BMWs but they are pretty good, and the engine is just heaven when it is humming along. All of the mechanicals on these seemed to have been designed to a slightly higher degree, including the rear differential and the control arms, for example.
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Interference engine and Nivomats... That's enough for me to never own a 960.
And I think you answered your own question when you said, "I've been a long time 240 owner and am confident and comfortable working on them myself."
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Dear H4L.9000,
Hope you're well. If a 960 has a broken timing belt, the valves have been bent. That means at least a head job and in some cases, engine replacement, because a valve has punched a hole in a piston.
The reason: the 960's engine is of an an "interference" design: failure of a timing belt, timing belt tensioner or a water pump seizure, etc., causes valves to strike pistons. By contrast, the B230 engine used in 240s, 740s, and 940s is of a non-interference design. A timing belt failure stops the car, but does not damage the engine.
Thus, should you consider a 960, you must obtain documentary proof as to when the timing belt and tensioner were last changed. That proof must include mileage, and part names and/or numbers. Vague statements, or inadequate documentation should be disregarded: they are simply worthless. If you can't get documentary proof that the timing belt and tensioner have been replaced, have the car towed to a place, where this work can be done.
I believe that conversion kits are available, that ease substitution of ordinary shocks for the self-leveling Nivomats. See, for example, http://www.ipdusa.com/products/6324/109629-nivomat-conversion-kit-with-sachs-turbo-gas-shocks?crumbs=P6323,T10024 .
Check the automatic transmission fluid (ATF). It should be a clear, rosy red. If it is another color (black/dark red = dirty; orange = overheated, etc.) - or if it is cloudy - move on. Cloudy/milky ATF means the in-radiator ATF cooler has failed. Coolant has entered the ATF. Water in the coolant attacks the adhesive, that bonds clutch pack facings to the steel subtrate. Clutch pack micro-fibers have gotten loose. They are likely to clog fluidways, valve bodies, etc. Also, water turns to steam at normal transmission operating temperatures. Water does not lubricate... .
Further, make sure the heater hoses and heater control valve have been changed. If these parts are factory-original, they are 5-10 years past the end of their service life (15 years, depending on climate, wherein the car lives). It is best to use Volvo brand replacement hoses. A failed heater hose or heater control valve means rapid coolant loss and an overheated engine.
The reading of several years of posts relating to 960s suggests that a well-maintained car will not be problematic; a car owned by one, who didn't much pay attention to maintenance, should be avoided. Thus, if a seller does not have a sheaf of maintenance receipts, pass on that car.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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