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Hello All:
1967 Volvo 122S Wagon. I have a question about gear oil. The shop manual clearly states to only use NON-Hypoid oil (I have the 4-speed, no overdrive) in the 80-90 weight range. Has our thinking evolved in any way on this? I can find Hypoid oil quite easily but non-hypoid has been a tougher get.
On a somewhat related note - for those of you without a lift in the garage, how are you getting to the transmission fill hole? I have to jack up the car slightly and I worry that when I use my hand pump to fill up the oil to the bottom of the hole it might be an inaccurate fill level. I was wondering if anyone had a cool pro tip I should know.
As always, thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Pooch
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Hypoid 80W-90 is for your diff which has hypoid gears in it. Put this in your gearbox and your syncros will die.
Non-Hypoid 80W-90 for your gearbox, or 30 or 40 grade engine oil. I use 15W-40, but it does not last as long. Using 15W-40 in both the engine and gearbox I change the gearbox every 2nd time. 80W-90 gear oil or 30 or 40 grade engine oil lasts 100,000+ miles. 80W-90 gear oil viscosity is inbetween 30 and 40 grade engine oil as they use different scales.
--
69 142S Overdrive + 69 164S Manual
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You can buy Non-Hypoid GL-1 Gear Oil from NAPA. If you are interested, I have a new 1 GAL jug that I will sell for $5 plus shipping, or you can source it locally: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Gear-Oil-GL-1-90-Gear-Oil-80w90-1-GAL/_/R-FHQ65201_0434862994
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1959 Volvo Amazon 121, 1998 Volvo V70R AWD
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Hello Lukeball:
If you think you could get it in the mail to me by tomorrow I would gladly take it. I can send you a check for the oil plus shipping as soon as you tell me the shipping costs - literally tomorrow. THANK YOU.
Feel free to call me if you want to touch base 323.895.0510.
Cheers,
Pooch
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Any GL-5 80W-90 will be fine.
I rarely disagree with Matt, but I'd avoid 30W in a M40 (4 speed gearbox).
Though very similar in design and even sharing some internal parts, the overdrive
gearboxes (M41) used needle bearings on the gears themselves whereas the M40 used
solid bronze bearings. I think that's the reason the M41 spec'd thinner oil.
Both had needle bearings on the layshaft.
For filling, I also remove the fill plug and shifter. Fill from the shifter hole
until it dribbles from the fill plug hole on the gearbox. Replace the shifter
and plug, clean up the mess and you're done.
Easy peasy.
--
"Differences of opinions should be tolerated, but not if they're too different' - Sharon Craig
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We use 30 wt in our customers M41s and GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil with hypoid in our customers M40s.
FYI, not all M41s got needle bearings for the mainshaft gears. Most if not all 1800s got needle bearings for the mainshaft gears. But I have seen M41s in 140s that did not have needle bearings but bushings like the M40s gears.
And it turns out the gears are the same between like style M40s and M41s even though the part numbers are different depending on whether the gear has a bushing or uses needle bearings.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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Hello to all concerned.
I found the claim that hypoid can damage synchros hard to believe as we have been using GL3 and GL4 for years without any problems and I could not find any warnings in any of my green books, nor did I find anything about it in the owners manuals.
But GL5 is relatively new so I decided to do some research on the subject and was startled to find several articles that do claim that high levels of hypoid can damage synchros.
And in 1 article, a Nissan repair manual is quoted and in effect says damage WILL occur if GL5 is used instead of GL4.
So now based on what I read, I believe Gl5 should not be used in a synchronized manual transmission unless the manufacturer recommends it.
But GL4 is still usable as it has lower levels of hypoid.
For those of you that don't want any hypoid, besides 80 wt or 90 wt gear oil, Volvo recommended 30 wt or 20-40 wt engine oil as alternative oils for the M40.
BTW, I have never seen non-hypoid gear oil or 20-40 wt engine oil in any parts store. I have seen special high priced gear oils made for manual transmissions at speed shops.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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Hypoid, schmypoid, not to worry...
Fill trans from top...
Remove gear shifter with BFCLs, add oil 'til runs out fill hole.
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The Volvo Service Manual says, in bold letters: “Note that hypoid oil must not be used” (Green Book, volume 1, page 1-2). I have read elsewhere that hypoid oil has an additive in it that causes damage to the synchro rings.
Hypoid oil is for the rear axle (differential) which has hypoid gears.
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Volvos warning is to guard against the use of sulphur rich oils that corrode bronze. i.e. bushings and syncros. Modern oils are a bit more compatible than they were when the green book was written but the correct API rating should be adhered to.
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Exactly right Simon. Hypoid oil has an EP additive which means extreme pressure. That's needed as hypoid profile gears wipe across each other during engagement. The EP additive interferes with the action of the synchronizers in manual transmissions. Prevents the gradual increase in friction during the shift. BMW has the same requirement.
It also doesn't matter one bit whether the trans has needle bearings or bushings. Rebuild an automatic trans and see all the bushings in them. Volvo went to ATF in manuals in the seventies. Works great. Works great in the earlier transmissions too.
30W engine oil is fine in all M40 and M41. If you're brave ATF works great in M40. Need good seals though.
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Keep in mind that for your same transmission, but with overdrive, Volvo clearly recommended straight 30wt motor oil. Go with whatever.
I've done the pump thing to fill a tranny. My best solution? Duct tape a long piece of fuel line or whatever to the top of an open, two quart bottle of gear oil. Feed said line down into the fill hole (the tube must fit inside the fill hole). Then hang the full bottle (with line taped on) to the hood latch (hood open), Punch a hole in the bottom of the upside-down bottle, and let 'er drain into the tranny. A beer, maybe two, depending on how fast you drink, should do it. When you see it overflowing onto your driveway, that's when you pull the bottle down and pinch the line to keep the mess to a minimum.
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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I think Matt's pulling your leg.
Aside from brake fluid, 90 wt is my least favorite 'fluid'.
Alternatively, with the car on the ground, slide under there and remove the fill hole plug. You can sneak a pinky in and over and feel if you're a tad low, or really low. Place a catch pan under the trans.
Back in the cab, undo whatever you have in the way of removing the shifter. Pouring in a bit at a time, while leaning your head out, look under the car to see when the trans is full such that it starts to spill out the fill hole. Stop when it does, or just before. This take skill and practice.
reinstall shifter. reinstall filler plug on trans.
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Geez... I feel stupid. Again.
First, thanks for the clarification on the bearings/bushings on the M41/M40. I thought they all had needle bearings. I've only been into M41s.
Second.. duh. yeah, remove fill plug, remove shifter (best in neutral for ease of getting it back in).. , pour down the hole. My whole scheme of hanging the bottle from the open hood is what I'd do for a linkaged shifter, '72 or later 140 or any 164/1800..
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Hello All:
Thanks for the quick responses. Got it - regarding the weight and the hypoid/non-hypoid debate. I have also heard from others that the 30 weight oil is only good for the overdrive tranny but did not know the reason - the needle bearing explanation makes sense.
GOOD TIP ON THE SHIFTER REMOVAL. I have never removed mine before, how difficult is that? I have no idea how to do it so if someone could take me through the steps I would be eternally grateful.
Cheers,
Pooch
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My grandson and I recently removed screen etc on my D type OD. After cleaning the screen and draining the old oil we just rigged up a long piece of plastic tubing to a funnel. Insert one end in fill hole while the funnel was up in the engine compartment. We measured the amount of oil suggested in the shop manual and slowly added it to the trans. When we had almost poured it all in we stopped and checked the level which was right at the bottom of the fill hole. So we drove it around a bit then came back and checked it again. No change. So it didn't quite take as much as the manual suggested, which I hate but full is full. I used 30 wt non detergent Amalie.
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Oil has to flow over the join to get into the OD sump so worth checking after driving for a week or so. Level can take a while to settle down. Better safe than sorry.
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Guys;
I also use the tube from the engine compartment, but removing the shifter and filling into the hole is a perfectly acceptable alternate...be aware, when using the later technique, transmission should be in neutral when removing shifter so that the keyed plate below the lid is position to replace shifter when your done and reassembling.
Cheers
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