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Recently I bought a set of 4 of these 5.5 wheels for my PV544:
http://212.247.61.152/us/main.aspx?page=article&artno=613014
Now I want to fit 195/65/15 tires but the supplier said there would not be enough clearance at the rear fenders for 195 tires with these wheels (track increase = 30 mm).
What's a sufficient solution? Trimming back the fender lips or a fender rolling treatment like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUv9YPd_0Zc
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I'd go to a tire shop, and with promise of buying a set of new tires, ask if they'll throw a used tire of that size on so you can check fitment. I expect your issues are going to be hard cornering, so you need to check it with the front wheels in various steering positions.
My guess is that you'll be fine 98% of the time, but full lock turns over bumps might cause issue
I also take issue with the folks selling them and saying they are for PV models, but then saying that 195-65 won't work? What do they expect you to run to screw up your speedometer? 195-65 is an absolutely ideal size for a 5.5" wide, 15" wheel for a vintage Volvo.
So I don't get what they're trying to do...
Nice looking wheels!
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Matt, the wheels we're talking about are reproductions of the 123GT-wheel of the sixties. So they are not in the first instance for PV-models, though they do fit them. However with 195 tires, the rear wheel arches of the PV will have to be modified. Queston is in what way and to what extent.
The supplier told me the wheels are ususally fitted with 185/65 tires if they are to be mounted on a PV, but I don't want that size. Being almost 1" lower than the original 165/15, it means increased rpm on the freeway, which I want to avoid at all times. The only alternative is 185/70, but the choice in that size is very limited between expensive tires of mediocre quality.
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I have 195/65 x 15 on old 5,5" rims on my 544. It works fine but only after I replaced my rear springs to establish the original ride height, rear springs from a 144 will work fine as well. No problem with interference since then so go for it.
regards Michael
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The 165/80/15 tires on my original 4" wheels have now been mounted on the new 5.5" GT ones. At the tireshop we also tried a 185/65 and a 195/65 at one of the rear wheels, but both left just a couple of milimeters space between tire and fender. To my surprise the situation with the 165/15 tires appeared to be hardly any better and on the way home the rear left tire almost continueous touched the fender lip, an awful noise. See the picture below.
At home I succeeded in creating a bit more space by bending the fender slightly outwards and fortunately the tire runs freely now.
So it's obvious that some serious mods will be necessary befory wider tires can be mounted. Why do I run into this problem while others don't?
Perhaps because one of the former owners welded the rear fenders to the body instead of bolting them? Otherwise I have no idea.
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Perhaps all the added width on the new wheels went to the outside, none to the inside? How much clearance is there between the inner rim and the upper front suspension arm?
I'm fitting 205 width tires in my car, and it sits pretty low (front and rear). So there is room inside there, the tire just needs to be in the correct position, the correct offset.
Sounds like a readjustment of the panhard rod length might be in order. A panhard rod isn't that great of a method of locating an axle side to side - the axle will tend to move from one side to the other, then back, as the suspension is loaded and unloaded (side to side leans make a bit less difference). Fine tuning the position with an adjustable panhard rod will get it to look right when it's in a certain position, but it will still move around on the road as the suspension compresses, or if you have a bunch of stuff in the trunk (avoided using the word 'junk' there!)
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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Michael Basel was right, new rear springs solved the problem.
The old springs were not only sagged, but the lower winding of the RH one appeared to be broken as well.
Ride height at the rear is up now by some 34 mm (LH) and 48 mm (RH).
So time for trying a 195/70/15 tire from my 121 on the 544 and what do you think? Enough clearance!
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I'm happy my response helped you
Regards Michael
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Until you hit a bump?
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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"Until you hit a bump?"
No way! :-)
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Just saying, if raising the car up a couple of inches with new springs makes the tires not hit the fenders, then if the suspension compresses a couple of inches, either from people sitting in the back seat, or you hit a bump/lump/heave int he road, then the tires will rub.
I think the offset of the tires is a bit off for a PV if you're having issues with fitting 165 tires on.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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is the clearance the same on the other side?
I'm asking only because I'm now curious. I've never run anything but stock wheels on a 544, and now I'm curious...
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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"is the clearance the same on the other side?"
No, there's a bit more clearance on the other rear side.
Which may be cause by unevenly sagged rear springs?
Anyway I have bought a set of new rear springs now; they can only improve the situation.
I will post the results here.
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If the side-to-side clearance is different from one side to the other but the ride height is the same, the rear is likely sitting lower than before (as suggested). This happens when these cars are intentionally lowered just as it does when the springs are sagging (unintentionally lowered).
When the rear of the car comes down, the panhard rod pushes the axle further to one side - this is why vendors offer adjustable panhard rods, though I've not seen one available for PV series cars. I'm a little surprised that it's as significant as what you've found. Mine is a little lower than stock in the rear (sagging, not intentional), with 6 inch rims and 205 60 15s.
I wonder if you have the wrong panhard rod in your car. I don't remember how the PV and Amazon rods compare lengthwise, but they use the same bushings -- so at least the mounting points would allow the wrong one to be installed.
You can either elevate the rear end, or shorten the panhard rod. Or experiment with different offset rims.
I'd remove the panhard rod, put the car on the ground, measure clearance, see if I could finagle the body to be perfectly centered over the rear axle and provice equal clearance on either side, then measure the panhard mounts to determine exactly what length panhard rod I needed. Once that's done, though, the panhard rod is custom fit to what may well be worn springs, and if you ever replace them with new ones...
Best,
Cameron
Rose City
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That was part of why I brought it up. I doubt the wrong panhard rod, but perhaps bent a bit, and/or bad bushings. Those bushings do not hold up.. well, if they are anything like 122/1800. And they are a snap to change, and about the cheapest way to actually get out of a Volvo dealer with parts for cheap (I used to buy 'em by the dozen to avoid feeling guilty about not spending money)
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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I think your clearance problem is caused by the rear sagging too much. Try jacking the car up a bit and check the increased clearance.
Regards Michael
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I too would like to know is there is any interference with the IPD front sway bar? My tires are brand new BF Goodrich Traction TA`s 195 65 15. I also have been looking at rims for sometime now. There is a red 544 race car with 544 numbers on the door. I think I got the pictures off IPD web site a while back. The fenders are flared just enough to make me think they were flared with a roller setup. I sure would like more info and pictures of this car. I see what John is saying about the way the fender is made and have wondered the same thing as you about rolling the lip. Thanks also for any input. Larry
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Rolling the fenders on a PV will gain you *very* little. Perhaps 1/4".
Most newer cars have a seam between the inner and outre fenders that turns into the wheel opening, and both layers are welded together. This can extend up to an inch, sometimes even more. Folding that over makes a lot more room. But the PV's fender is just a single layer of steel, it's curved over around the opening just enough to hide the raw edge.
I'm running 15X6 wheels on my car, with 205/50/15 tires. But they have a 3.375" backspacing. With a wheel that bolts on both front and rear, I think that's pretty close to as much as you can fit on without modifying bodywork. In the front, the rim can't be moved inward anymore because it would hit that upper/outer suspension pivot. And in the rear, you really can't have much more tire width to the outside because of fender clearance.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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"I'm running 15X6 wheels on my car, with 205/50/15 tires. But they have a 3.375" backspacing."
In the front my wheels clear the suspension pivots. They have 3.740" backspacing, that's 0.365" more than yours, but the width of the wheels is 5.5" and that's 0,5" less. So the outer edges of your wheels will be 0.135" further outboard than mine.
The tires I want (but don't have yet) are 195/65 which is also less wide than 205/50. However a 195/65 tire is appr. 1.91" higher than a 205/50, perhaps that's a problem?
All and all I have the idea I might get away with some 1/4" extra clearance, gained by rolling. What do you think?
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Here are a couple of old pics of my PV, not long after I'd put the new wheels on it, with the first set of taller tires. The size escapes me, but they were taller than the current 205/50's.
The other thing that was going on there was that I'd had one front spring break, so I'd replaced both of them. And the front end was sitting way up in the air. probably the stock ride height, but I'd gotten used to the very old sagged spring's ride height. After waiting 6 months or so for them to settle if they were going to, I chopped a coil off them.
The taller tires were the ones that would occasionally rub in the back, I did roll the fenders and that was enough to get rid of the rubbing, sometimes 1/4 inch is all you need.
The 205/50's do look a bit skinny at times (height, not width), I think the next time I buy tires I'll go a bit taller again, just for the looks.
Short sidewalls just look a bit off sometimes.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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