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Just wondering why the O2 sensor was moved from the exhaust manifold to the catalytic converter.
My sister's 245's header pipe rusted out at the bracket welds, which probably adversely effected mileage, as the O2 sensor is after that, at the cat. Whereas, if the O2 sensor was on the exhaust manifold, mileage would probably have been maintained.
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1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.
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Moving the O2 sensor farther downstream gives the exhaust more time to mingle with itself and get extra O2 and fuel to combine, and turbulence at the earlier junction allows it to become more uniform in both flow and consistency by the time it reaches the sensor in it's new/lower position. Good for the car, but bad for us when we need to work on the exhaust.
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
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"Moving the O2 sensor farther downstream gives the exhaust more time to mingle with itself and get extra O2 and fuel to combine"
Well if that is the case, it may be a good idea to move the O2 sensor back up to the exhaust manifold to improve gas mileage.
The O2 sensor allows the ECU to monitor the unburned HC being exhausted by the engine. A high HC output would indicate too much fuel being input and the ECU will lean out the fuel mix.
But if, as you say, fuel continues to burn in the exhaust (though it isn't contributing to engine power), then a high HC output at the exhaust manifold may result in a more balanced HC by the time it reaches the catalytic converter.
So an O2 sensor at the exhaust manifold would call for a reduction in fuel whereas an O2 sensor at the cat, wouldn't.
Anyhow, I have a spare older exhaust manifold with the port for the O2 sensor. May switch it in someday.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.
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"The O2 sensor allows the ECU to monitor the unburned HC being exhausted by the engine. A high HC output would indicate too much fuel being input and the ECU will lean out the fuel mix."
While that is a good theory, that would require that the car be equipped with a Hydrocarbon monitor rather than an Oxygen sensor. -and the cost difference is several orders of magnitude between them. Since the Oxygen sensor is the cheaper of the two, it means that our fuel injection systems are limited to looking for extra oxygen in the exhaust stream while it's attempting to achieve the perfect 14.7 to 1 ratio of O2 to fuel.
Now, using some rough numbers (not exact but used for this example only), let's say that the cylinder actually uses/burns 96% of the fuel and air in combustion during the power stroke and 4% is dumped to the exhaust unburned. By the time it hits the upper O2 sensor position in the exhaust manifold, let's say an additional 1% is burned, leaving 3% of the air and fuel left. But by the time it reaches the lower position, lets say that it's down to 2% remaining. -and the rest is dealt with by the catalytic converter. Again, this isn't accurate, just an example. There's a lot going on with the exhaust of various concentrations mixing here too.
Could you get some more fuel efficiency by moving the senor upstream to the old position? -Sort of, but assuming that your ECU is mapped to expect accurate data from the lower position, what you're actually doing is leaning out the mixture a bit. Will this hurt your Naturally Aspirated Volvo engine? -probably not much by this small amount, but running too lean is bad in that a lot of extra Oxygen sitting around in the cylinder during combustion will increase the initial flash heat and the O2 molecules are looking for something to bond with at the high temperatures. The only two things left to attack are the Steel cylinder walls (pretty immune) and the Aluminum head and the Aluminum piston. Since the piston has a higher temperature than the head (which has coolant flowing through it), those piston molecules will strip off easier, and you slowly melt through your piston. This is much more of a concern for a Turbo equipped car than a N/A like yours.
In summary, can you move the O2 sensor higher up in your car? -yes, but don't expect it to pay off with better fuel mileage. I have no concerns mounting them up higher here in Michigan where the road salt and rust play havoc with our exhaust systems and all the hardware lasts longer if it's up in the engine bay rather than under the car. If you really want to maximize your fuel efficiency, change out your O2 sensor every 60,000 miles (book spec for the 1986 and later cars), rather than every 100,000 miles that so many of us typically run. Remember, the O2 sensor is a consumable object, it's slowly wearing through it's chemical coatings as it produces that small voltage to send to the ECU. Your AMM is doing about 75% of the work for determining air-to-fuel ratios, but the O2 sensor does the fine tuning to maximize your efficiency.
God bless and have a great day,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
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"Remember, the O2 sensor is a consumable object, it's slowly wearing through it's chemical coatings as it produces that small voltage to send to the ECU."
Thanks for the details, Fitz.
Do you know if the Regina O2 sensor is also a "consumable" in the same sense? I would guess not, since the Titania-based sensor changes resistance (like a coolant temp sensor) rather than generating a voltage.
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Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Hey Bruce, good to hear from you again. I remember hearing some "long life" specs on the Regina O2 sensors that they put in the 740s and 940s being somewhere around 150,000 mile recommended change intervals, but I don't remember seeing it in print or literature anywhere. -or knowing of anybody who actually changed their Titania oxygen sensors and then published MPG improvement numbers.
God bless and thanks for sharing that reminder on the "other" flavor of O2 sensors. Fitz.
P.S. For those who are curious, the Titania based O2 sensors are only for the Siemens Regina fuel injection systems and are not compatible with the Bosch LH-Jetronic systems.
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I think part of the reason for the move was to help the O2 sensor live a longer life. Sitting closer to the engine, it is more subject to high temps that can damage it. This was required on early O2 sensors that were unheated - the sensor has to be up to temp to work, keeping it close to the engine made it warm up faster, and stay warm enough to work, at the risk of being over heated at times. When they added a heater circuit to the sensor, they could move it further downstream, now it's not dependent on the engine to keep it warm enough to work, it can do that on its own.
That's a lot of words to describe the difference between heated and non-heated sensors, but I'm to lazy to make it any shorter.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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John, you're absolutely right, I had forgotten that element of the logic and thanks for posting it.
I hope you're 16v Turbo is running well, was that with a Yoshi fab system?
God bless, Fitz.
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