Hi All,

My daughters 1989 240 DL with 175,000 miles had no power accelerating from a stop and died. After a couple of tries restarted and ran good for the next 200 miles. Another time stumbled going about 25 MPH and died, no restart. Went to tow it home the next day and it started and ran good. No trouble codes (just 1-1-1). Been another 100 miles and it died but restarted and ran good. No trouble codes again.

Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, crank position sensor, fuel filter, 5,000 miles ago. Fuel Pressure Regulator holding fine; both fuel pumps not making any abnormal noises. Replaced the Fuel Pressure Relay with no change. All hoses are newer, no vacuum leaks.

Which would you try next?

Thanks,
Mike
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

I've read all of the replies, and I must say, you are geting some good advice.

The only thing that I haven't seen is any reference to the 25 amp blade fuse that runs the fuel injection system.
It's located behind the battery, mounted on the left fender.
You will find it in the smaller red wire that runs from the battery positive terminal.

Inspect this fuse and it's holder for corrosion, and replace as necessary.

hope this helps
steve

I did above.
Dan

Thanks Steve, did that early on and have double checked the wiring.
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

Do you have an inductive timing light that you can hook up on ant one of the four the spark plug wires? I want to rule out a bad rotor button or distributor cap when it does not start.

Besides losing ignition firing heat, c. It sure is looking like a bad ECU.

I have been suspicious, AND ITS ONLY A UNFOUNDED SUSPICION, that the 561, even a white label one, is not quite compatible with the changes on the late 80's to 90's cars.
We know the AMM changed, a new CPS component for the 89+ Year and you have a feeling of hybrid on the fly changes! Add on the lack of a program of long term pre or post-testing of the LH expresses

I envision contracts being signed on the cheap,(primarily with Bosch) to buy up some new prototype runs or "end" of runs as time passed.
Running down a inventory of old hall sensors, a CPS change over and adding up the tweaks of those AMM 's models from Bosch.
While all the time this is happening, Volvo was having a nice rise of higher sales demand. Caught up with lots of the even more expensive ECU's 561's on hand and what's lurking in the production wings.

Those contracts to buy "x" many more, plus the surprise bugs that may have started to appear all prompted a "late rush" to get updated 931and 933's ECU's on board.

So sorry some of those possible 89-91's years as this explains a spread of differences within LH 2.4 with intent or even a last gasp, the low production, of the LH 3.1?

That said, you may have to get some "later parts" to fix bugs that have come to appeared now!
Phil

Thanks Phil,

The cap is fairly new but I found it had the aluminum (?) internals with a bit of build-up. Installing a new Bosch Cap and rotor tonight to rule that out. Plugs and wires are newer. Pulled plugs and they are burning nice.

When it is running all injectors are clacking away. I have a inductive timing light and double check on the next no start. Also have a Noid and will check the injector plug-in.

Will a 951 ECU work here?

Intermittent is so fun.

Best Regards,
Mike

--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

Yes 951, others will work fine like 933, 946, and white label 561.
Dan

Thanks machine man,

It was a new CPS (white band). I have another new one on hand I may try.

I did re-flow the solder on the Fuel Pump Relay early on. I have a new one that will also put in this weekend.

I have not checked the fuse panel! Will clean and replace with brass tips (also on hand). Check the switch at the same time.

Thanks for the help. She will bring the car down this weekend and will report back.

--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

The latest...

New fuel pump relay, fuse block looks good but cleaned it. Replaced all fuses with ceramic brass ones. Cleaned TB and all hoses are fine.

Looked at the records and I had put in a new ignition switch a couple of years ago. Pulled it anyway and all positions check fine with a meter. Put in a coil had on hand. Ran good back to Seattle (1 hour north).

No start yesterday so I sent to get it towed home. Tow got there and it started fine so my daughter drove it down. This evening no start again after several cranks (but it is in my shop!). Put my fuel pressure gauge in line and found 45 psi cranking and holds 40 psi for at least 30 min. Same results jumping #4 and #6. Also found spark at the coil while cranking. Disconnected AMM, still no start.

Cranked a few more times and she caught and idles and runs great. This does have the Pink 561 but I thought they either worked or not.

Have a rebuilt IPD AMM and new temp sensor to put in tonight.

Any other thoughts?

Best Regards,
Mike
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

I think the -561 may be able to fail intermittently, but it seems like it's a "when", not an "if".

Hmm.

when you installed the CPS, did you clip its line to the heater hose and brake booster (not sure if it's the same on the 200)? Have you checked the CPS wiring to make sure it's not getting yanked on and isn't split?
What brand was the CPS? It sounds like a classic CPS failure, other than it being new. Is there any effect if you wiggle its wiring?


When it does run, how does it run? Well? Not so well?


Good Luck

CPS wiring is away from any heat source. Last time it was running I did yank and tug on all the connection quite hard and she continued to run.

Does the CPS only give the signal to turn on the pumps or is there another function? The last no start I observed 45 PSI on my gauge while cranking. It still is holding 23 PSI 24 hours later.

It is a Bougicord.
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

Just got done installing the new temp sensor and rebuilt AMM. Fuel system still holding 40 PSI. Throttle switch operation checks fine and is adjusted proper. TB is still clean.

Cranked it over and no start. Once it tried to catch as I was moving the key from Start to On, but no luck. Still have good spark at the Dizzy end of the coil wire while cranking. Could it be the injectors are not getting power to open during cranking? Will look at the FAQ for a test.

Have a know good ECU from a 1985 740 Turbo (564?). Would it work?
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

Have a know good ECU from a 1985 740 Turbo (564?). Would it work?

Probably not especially if it is LH 2.2.
Dan

I still suggest the ignition power stage...

I installed a new Bosch Ignition Power Stage early on and she got 400 miles before it started the intermittent problems again.

I pulled the ECU last night , removed the cover and did not find anything that jumped out as burned.
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

Take some ice with you. If cooling the ignition amplifier with ice improves ignition, then it is at fault.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

What are the last 3 digits and label color of the ECU?
Dan

Hi Dan, It is the Pink 561. I will get a noid to check the injector circuit at the plug (during a no start) tomorrow.
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

I have 2 daughters in 240's both an hour or two from home, I always try to eliminate known problems before they have a chance to fail. Much safer for them and fewer emergencies for me.

The ECU may not be the problem now but chances are it will someday, I would get a 951 and have one less thing to worry about.

Dan

Good advice.

So the 951 replaces the Pink 561? How about a White 561?

I am quite a ways form any PNP's so the internet search is on and I want to get the best (most updated) I can.

Thanks,
MIke
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

The white 561 will work fine, 951 is the most updated. If the pink one is working you can keep it for trouble shooting and emergencies.

Dan

Usually the pink 561 one fails with a no start but if I was running one I would have a good spare in my trunk at all times.
Dan

I believe the 89 year was the first year for a CPS.
There are claims that if it has a narrow yellow band of tape on the cable you should replace it for sure.
I read that you changed it and a coil six thousand miles ago.
Was the CPS used, if so, was it marked with yellow instead of white? That's about the only way to still have a yellow band on these cars is to used old hideaways!

What about the FUEL SYSTEM pumps/injectionRELAY, underneath the glove box? Since you mentioned a "fuel a pressure relay as it is a fuel "pressure"regulator I wanted to address the differences.

Did you reflow the solder traces inside it or replace the relay?

Some other things I would try next is:

Tear into the fuse panel within in the driver door jam and clean and polish up the terminal fingers. Squeeze them in a little extra to make sure they are tight.
Apply anti corrosion paste as a final measure.
Try to use replace fuses that have brass tips, it helps a lot. Stay away from those that look like lead or aluminum.
Do this every couple three years in moist climates!

If it still does it after all that, then, I would be suspect of the ignition switch contact block on the back side of the key assembly. It could be dirty or worn contacts inside it, its rare, but so are many things! You unplug it and then it removes easily by removing two screws on the back side. A replacement fits right back just as easy.

Forgot to add that there were no trouble codes again.
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

Have you cleaned the throttle body, idle air control valve, and all associated vac hoses recently?

Bad or failing AMM can cause stumbling and no start. Next time it happens disconnect the AMM and see if it runs

Dan

Replaced the Ignition Power Stage with a new Bosch unit. New aluminum mounting block and heat paste. Ran great for 400 miles. Died at a light this morning, restarted after a couple of tries, runs fine. All grounds are clean and it had 3/4 tank fuel.

Going to try the coil and crank position sensor next although both were new units 6,000 miles ago.

Does this model have the Hall Sender in the dizzy?

Thanks for the input!
Mike
--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

I went thru a lot of intermittent starts only to find it was the coil. I had spark every time and I'd start often, but a new coil fixed it all.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Thanks for the reply's.

Fuse holder has been done. Fuel pressure and flow are fine.

Did not know this one had the Ignition Power Stage! Located it and found the mounting plate is in poor shape. Had the very same issue with a 760 and this was the problem. Off to get one and will post back.

Best Regards,
Mike

--
1984-244 GL, 1985-244 DL, 1985-245 DL, 1989-244 DL, 1989-760 Turbo, 1967 Mustang (271 HP 289) and 62 F-250 4x4 (262 - 6 cylinder)

I have a '93 with a very similar issue, and I went down the Oxy Sensor and fuel regulator/fuel pump/fuel relay route with no success. Three tows later it finally ended up in a complete no start condition my Volvo indy could correctly diagnose and subsequently fix. Check/replace the throttle position sensor, he referred to it as flywheel position sensor but apparently they are one in the same.

Ignition power stage...swap in your known good spare you got from the PnP with new thermal paste.

What about the 25 amp fuse and fuse holder near the battery? Might be blown or more likely corroded and intermittent. Replace it with a nice new marine unit with a new connection at the battery.
Dan

If you can get the car to run listen for the in-tank pump. I use a piece of garden hose stuck down the filler pipe.

~200k seems to be a about the mileage where in-tank pumps start to fail.

Remove the return line on the fuel pressure regulator, add a length of tube directed to a gas can and start the engine. you should get a good strong stream of gas, if not you have a pump problem.

The 25A inline fuse and fuse holder mounted to the drivers fender also wreak havoc. Replace with a waterproof fuse holder ~$6.

--
'90 245 291k, '93 945 299k

Is the main fuel pump the original? Just because it isn't making noise doesn't mean all is ok.