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I recently got some bad news about a repair needed on my 92 240 that at this point I am probably not going to have done and am thinking about calling it quits on the car. The repair is for the front left control arm and bushings to the extent that they feel its not safe for me to drive without signing a waiver (over $800 repair). I am thinking about trying to sell the car rather than trading it in but was wondering what the asking price should be and more importantly if there is someone out there who would be interested in owning what has been a damn good car in the family for nearly 15 years. It has 235000 miles on it, hardly any, if at all, rust showing and has been driving extremely well...was planning on putting many more miles on it (first car I ever drove and didnt plan on hanging up the keys this early) up to this point but am not a mechanic and parts and repairs are beginning to become a hassle. Any interest or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, i have all service documents and will answer any questions honestly and forthright...can produce pictures if wanted in its current state.
Thanks,
>Jeff J
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I would run an ad on Craigslist auto parts looking for an old Volvo mechanic. I am certain you will get some responses. Perhaps an ad in/on local college paper / bulletin board would be useful. Picking the right person is problematic, but so is picking a commercial shop. If you find a decent person stick with him and gradually do routine maintenance work.
I hope your $800 estimate was not from Firestone / Goodyear or other top dollar chains, who service everything but know nothing. Remember than a chain store pays sign fees, taxes on prime real estate, franchise fees, investors fees, local taxes, then the mechanics employment and social security taxes, franchise fees, etc. The actual mechanic might be very luck to clear $10-15 per hour.And, specialist shops are almost always cheaper than a we fix everything shop.
A friend had a check engine light on a 2002? awd wagon. Took it to dealer, who "diagnosed" it as bad gas cap gasket, sold him new cap. Approx $200 total. I was on the "swedeish lights and lenses" e bay site, and they had a $12.95 "kit" consisting of a plastic bag, xeroxed instructions, and a gasket, that did the same thing. The ad said this was for late AWD cars with check engine light, often caused by gas cap gasket. I suspect reading an e bay ad and unscrewing a gas cap is withing many peoples mechanical ability. Moral being don't always go for the immediate top dollar estimate.
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The place is not a chain, and as far as i can tell from people ive spoken to in the area they are well respected, the price was based on parts from volvo: control arm and bushing-$220, sway bar-$100, ball joint-$110 and labor-$~250. I know these prices are steep but I have found much cheaper ones on the rockauto website and i think they are willing to use them...to me the labor cose seems fair, looking in the repair manual based on all that needs to be done and the suggested specialty tools it would cost me much more to do it myself and I would imagine the over quality of work would range from crappy to incompetent.
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" looking in the repair manual based on all that needs to be done and the suggested specialty tools it would cost me much more to do it myself " If you are getting the control arm with bushings already installed there are no specialty tools in the this repair. A jack, jack stands, 3/8's socket set, combination wrench set and a hammer is all that is needed except for getting the ball joint out of the holder (forgot how to do that off the top of my head)
I will say that $250 in labor when you throw in a sway bar replacement (why?) and ball joint replacement (makes sense) is not bad.
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The shop has agreed to use parts I provide (ball joint, front and rear bushings, sway bar link and control arm) I am using rockauto for the parts but cant tell which items come with hardware (nuts/bolts) besides the ball joint. If the others do not come with the hardware where would I go to find it? are these standard nuts and bolts or do I have to find certain types? and if so are there equivalents that could be used? I doubt the mechanic (who i actually do trust) will be willing to use the original bolts.
Thanks,
>Jeff J
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"If the others do not come with the hardware where would I go to find it?" A well stocked old-school hardware store or even a good sized Menards will have a lot of metric hardware. Most of it is standard size, but how would you mechanic have handled it if the parts he ordered failed to have hardware? I am betting he has bins of metric hardware himself.
"I doubt the mechanic (who i actually do trust) will be willing to use the original bolts." You'd be surprised. Most mechanics, including shade tree guys, reuse undamaged hardware even is unsightly unless they are torque-to-yield.
All that being said, the sway bar end links kind of have to have their hardware with them. The arm itself...not sure but I know that is standard hardware. Ball joint will only come with the top nut.
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I am going to agree with the others that $800 for this job is about twice what is should be. That being said, for a change I do not agree with the "keep it and do it yourself" concept.
If you have a had this car quite a while and this is not something you feel comfortable working it will likely become to expensive to own for you. A 22 year old car becomes progressively more needy as time and miles stack up. A whole litany of things that are relatively easy for a DIY mechanic to do come due in the 150K-200K miles range. If you or the previous owner did not do those things, they will start becoming emergencies instead of routine maint...emergencys cost 2-3 times as much as preventative maint.
Even if done as routine items, they run about $2500+ if done by a competent independant shop while the same items total around $600 in parts if you shop wisely and do them yourself.
If you wish to learn these skills, have the time and a location to do the work, we will all happily help you. The tools required are minimal. No "natural mechanical aptitude" is required.
If you want a second opinion, there is an excellent Volvo Indy shop about and hour NE of you. I am about 45 east of you but tied up for the next three weekends.
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All in all the parts that need to be replaced are the control arm, front and rear buchings, sway bar and ball joint; I can get these parts for what looks to be around $100-150 with labor costing somwhere around $250 if they are willing to put on parts that I supply. I love the car and dont want to drive anything else but my wife and I rely heavily on vehicles with me putting about 150 miles a day on the volvo to get back and forth from work... so if this if is the beginning of a downward trend as far as reliability is concerned i am becoming increasingly anxious about holding onto it and repairing it when that money could go towards the purchase of a new car.
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Hi Jeff,
If I may...
If you ask me, I would say our 240s are very durable and extremely reliable but it's old as we all know. Two years ago, I only knew how to perform very basic maintenance like changing engine oil + filter. Now, I can depend on myself to fix a lot more. I did spend a lot of money on tools, most of them I bought from Harbor Freight Tool but it was worth it.
I expected to last no more than 2 years when I got mine, figured I will be calling my AAA many many times but no, that didn't happen yet. But I did spent many hours of reading, searching, thinking, asking, fixing and fixing things that I broke or didn't do it correctly. It was all worth in the end and I get to hang out with my brickboard fellow on line.
I am still waiting for my heater core, once I get that fixed, my car will be close to stage -1 and there is no sign of slowing down.
Why not try?
--
I love my Volvo and love brickboarders even more.
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It is not a downward trend, it is question of routine maint and wear items. If it has been done, no downtime. For a 253K mile car with 22 years under its belt, how much deferred maint is there?
Used cars like a 240 are almost always cheaper to run in the long term than a new car with a payment. The insurance savings alone allow for about $800 in repairs per year.
My concern was that a $800 repair bill (which is still stupid high for that repair) on a 22 year old car is what makes you want to walk away. If that is what scares you should likely find another mode of transportation. It takes a different mindset to drive an aging but inexpensive car...doing your own work helps a lot.
I just dropped $320 on a radiator and all the hoses for my 1993 940...spent 2.5 hours putting them in using about four tools (1/4 socket set, razor knife, two combination wrenches of unknown size)...did not blink an eye. Would have been probably 2 hours shop time and a 25-50% mark-up on parts so figure close to $600 for the same thing at a good indie shop. In exchange my yearly insurance on the car is $125 and I get 2 mpg worse gas mileage than my roommates 2011 Malibu...and I can move an entire full size bedroom set in one trip.
So things that usually need attention between 150K and now:
Rear bushings known as TAB's
Radiator (strongly recommended if original)
All rubber hoses (coolant, heater)
All vacuum lines
About 4 bushings in the front suspension
Strut cartridges
Second or third set of shocks
Depending on brake fluid maint, front calipers (maybe even with good maint in our rust belt location)
transmission tailshaft bushing (automatic transmissions)
at least one blower motor
Passenger side motor mount
At least on fuel pump relay (resoldering may fix it forever)
Thermal paste on the ignition power stage
The original CPS
Timing belt every 75K miles (my schedule, not Volvo's)
Flame trap/PCV cleaning and check every 4th-5th oil change
Throttle body cleaning x 2...or more...I do it every couple of years
IAC valve cleaning
Likely, a new driver's side exterior handle
Lord knows how many visor clips (this might just be my issue)
From 250-300 some additional potential concerns:
Front wheel bearings
Starter
Clutch (if a manual transmission)
Second (or third) blower motor
U-joints
Driveshaft center support suspension and bearing
Fuel filter if never replaced
Valve adjustment might finally be due
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I can't imagine a sway bar being so rusted that it needs replaced, nor can I imagine the pothole it would take to damage it. If the undercarriage and suspension on your car are that rusted, you may be right - it is time to buy something new.
That said, ask on Turbobricks (larger audience) if anyone nearby can help you out with a cheap sway bar or control arm. They are common, rarely damaged parts. In the case of the sway bar, there are probably a hundred people with a spare stock sway bar willing to give it up, because once they have installed an upgraded bar, it is next to worthless. As I said, they almost never need to be replaced, so they have almost no value beyond scrap.
Volvo 240s are becoming hard-core enthusiast cars. They will require more maintenance as they age, and good parts are harder to find. If you want to hang on to the car, either get handy with the tools or get friendly with a shop, and develop your list of parts sources, network here and on Turbobricks, and make the car a part of your lifestyle that you can be proud of. If you just need reliable transportation with a minimum of hassle, you will be better off with a newer car.
Good luck; do what's best for yourself. Pass the car on to a new caretaker if you must.
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Wed Aug 21 13:36 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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sway bar???????
I can't imagine the kind of front end collision you would have to experience to require a swaybar replacement.
Did they mean a Sway Bar Link...which should be nowhere near $100
Unless you can post some PIX of the area under discussion in this post....speculation here is just a waste of time.
imho
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sorry...meant sway bar link not entire sway bar
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Ask for an itemized estimate. If there's any resistance, take your car and go home immediately.
The only way a lower front control arm could need replacement is if it is bent (hard to do without knowing you hit something really hard) or it is severely rusted to the point you can knock holes in it with a hammer.
If they are just buying a new OEM arm with bushings from Volvo it might be expensive and definitely not the way to go anyway. Given the robustness of the arm, a used one from a Pick-n-Pull or regular recycling yard is the norm.
Are you sure there isn't more to this story? No visible rust does not mean no rust.
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There is some rust under the driver side trim and rust where the front doors hinge but besides that there really isn't that much...I've been waxing it twice a year for nearly a decade and it really has held up...can take some pictures of the car and where there is some rust. Will be calling the mechanic tomorrow to see exactly where that estimate is coming from...control arm does need to go though, they could see light through it. I know underneath has some rust but honestly the body is in real good shape.
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The control is made of way thicker metal than the body. To see light through it is major rust. I would take it to gas station or such that has a lift and ask if they will let you look over the bottom of the car. Offer them $20 bucks just to let you look.
If you have a small digital camera with a flash take some pictures. Take a lot, they’re free. You need to know what you’re dealing with. It will help to make a decision about keeping the car.
You will need tools to DIY but I can't think of any special tools that are required despite what the manual shows. Maybe for the front bushing. Once you get the arm off take it to a shop and just have them press out the old and press in the new bushing. The rear bushing is just 3 bolts.
You probably will need a wheel alignment too. You can drive the car without a sway bar. Just be careful of slippery road conditions.
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"sign a release"....what a crock of crap. I live in the midst of the Northeast rust belt and have never seen a control arm sufficiently corroded to require replacement. And even if it did $800 is an even bigger crock! No way he is getting a "new" control arm so its a Junkyard replacement and with the car on a lift this is a 2 hour job at most.....$800....SMH. He should be ashamed.
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I live in FL and had to replace one that rusted out in a FL only car.
Dan
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Sounds like more mechanic bullcrap to me. How is it damaged that it is unsafe to drive?
Somebody recently noted that RockAuto sells a control arm (Moog, a trusted name) with front bushing installed for $60. The rear bushing is quite easy to replace with polyurethane, if it needs it. And I can do this work in my driveway in about an hour with hand tools. What about this is an $800 repair?
Perhaps you should find an honest mechanic who will install your parts, and we can advise you on what parts to buy.
If you lived close by, I would install your control arm in exchange for a burger and a beer.
If you are unwilling to learn to do the work, and you cannot find an honest mechanic who will work with you to keep the car safe for a reasonable price, it may be time to sell it.
Do not trade the car in. You won't get much. Somebody with a little mechanical ability would love to have it, if it is as nice as you say, and will likely give you more than the trade in.
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I would get a second opinion $800 sounds steep for a control arm and a couple of bushings. Maybe $100 in parts and an hour or two labor from an honest mechanic.
Fairly easy nuts and bolt replacement for the DIYer.
Dan
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