Volvo RWD 200 Forum

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by someone claiming to be oldduke on Thu Aug 1 06:33 CST 2013 [RELATED]

hi sages- one way ive saved a ton of cash is to anticipate future problems with mechanical devices and seek out low cost alternatives in advance. when one of these peccadillos is urgent you often have to go to the cleaners. sure most of you have been there done that. anyway on the m47 i have in my 92 245: when it blows- are the parts(gears, bearings, etc) generally available to repair it and is the skill set still available in this market . uncle moe (sherman tank mechanic at omaha beach and later chrysler mechanic)tells me most mechanics today cant or wont do this repair/rebuild. in the alternative, are these boxes generally available in yards and what do they cost(guessing 250). would love to hear answers to these questions from a sage who has actually done this repair, been soaked for it or found a used box in their yard. guessing rebuild costs $1000 from a shsyster. thanks tons oldduke

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by trichard on Fri Aug 2 05:56 CST 2013
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last visit: Fri Oct 24 05:52 CST 2014

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you will find the cost of some of the bearings not worth the effort over buying a used transmission.

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Goatman on Fri Aug 2 06:36 CST 2013
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last visit: Sat Jul 26 20:30 CST 2014

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Yeah, but it’s so fun!

It was about $400 for all the parts of the M45. These were the only parts I kept.

sample picture

Goatman

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by someone claiming to be oldduke on Fri Aug 2 13:21 CST 2013 [RELATED]

hello again goat- studied your picture closely. you took apart the m45 box and replaced many of the parts except the gears. surprised when you took it apart the gears were still in good condition. would think they would wear and pit or chip with tons of miles. have done many clutches in rwd fords , dodges and plymouths and have swapped out a few shot 3 and 4speed trans from them with junkyard ones. took apart a 3speed from a 64 dodge and a 4spd od from a 77 dodge once to see what was going on with the noise and popping out of gear. in both cases found worn out bearings and worn out gears especially 1st gear. the junkyard boxes were much cheaper. as i recall with the bad trans on the table you had to take off the front bearing retainer snout and the input bearing held by a c clip then take off the side plate on the 4 spd and the top cover on the 3 speed to access the innards.is the volvo the same? what stopped me was the cost of the gears which had to be replaced in both. the junkyard boxes were a better deal. what do you think would be the cost of an m47 box from a yard(guessing 200?). 400 for just the bearings and related parts(not the gears) could lead to the severe ailment of sticker shock at the volvo dealer. when my high mileage m47 blows, i may reconsider taking the box apart. also it appears access to the gears and the innards is through some kind of a plate on top of the m47 trans right? how tough is removal of the shifter from the top of the trans- access appears difficult. thanks tons for your patience and help. oldduke

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Goatman on Fri Aug 2 13:27 CST 2013
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last visit: Sat Jul 26 20:30 CST 2014

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If you can pull the bearing off of the output shaft, you’ve got it made. The shifter is easy, you just remove the six cover bolts and drift a pin out.

http://www.unm.edu/~goatman/Schauen.jpg

You have to remember that the Volvos have very little torque compared to larger vehicles. The gears from a low mileage box should look good.

Goatman

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Onkel Udo II on Fri Aug 2 14:04 CST 2013
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last visit: Fri Oct 24 08:50 CST 2014

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This why the T5-conversion does well in all but the most hopped up b230FT's. The torque of a B230F or even a B230FT is comparatively low compared to a V8. T5's regularly chunk themselves behind even stock Ford 5.0's (302) and other V8's in LeMons. Behind a B230FT (stock'ish) they last forever.

What I am trying to say is if you REALLY want to future-proof your B230F with M47 car, get a T5 conversion set. T5's LITTER the salvage yards where M47's are rare...and M47's in good shape are very rare. The M47 was not a terrible transmission but I feel it is not up to the longevity of the motor and chassis it is placed in.

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Goatman on Fri Aug 2 14:16 CST 2013
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I’d agree that for a track car a t5 would be worth it. For a daily driver, not so much. My reasoning is:

A. A custom driveshaft must be fabricated.
B. A custom crossmember must be fabricated.
C. Custom adapters for the bellhousing must be purchased.
D. Speedometer must be accounted for.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=3620

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Onkel Udo II on Fri Aug 2 14:46 CST 2013
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last visit: Fri Oct 24 08:50 CST 2014

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The other option is stock-pilling M47's. One is equally as expensive as the other.

Of course the number of variables is insane:

Do you do your own work
Do you have access to PnP's that have a regular flow of Volvo's
Do you frequent those PnP's often enough to find the M47's when they show up
Can you accurately assess the condition of said M47
Will the desired clutch components remain available for the M47
Etc.etc.etc

I really am only applying an apocalyptic view of the viability of an M47 once the world reverts to chaos when the Canadians invade. The M47 I is a fragile transmission. The M47 II is a less fragile transmission that is not up to the longevity of the 240 chassis and engine.

Now, an M45...I might argue differently. But in the end the T5 is a better transmission so if you goal in 200K miles over the next 20 years the conversion makes sense. Otherwise, stockpile M47's and learn how to swap them. Also...T5's are everywhere and cost about $.68 at a PnP (exaggeration intentional).

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Smitty on Thu Aug 1 23:26 CST 2013
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last visit: Sat Aug 9 22:44 CST 2014

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Two years ago when the M47 failed in my '92, my choice was between a used box with 165K on it or a rebuild - and the price was about the same (an indy Volvo shop doing the work). Volvos aren't real prolific down here in the desert southwest, so I feared a "take what you get" rebuild and went with the boneyard box. The whole job with box, labor, clutch kit, rear main seal and resurfacing the flywheel was about $1500. If I had a spare car I would have taken the task on myself, but that wasn't the case.

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by riverbend on Thu Aug 1 19:52 CST 2013
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It was years ago, but I rebuilt an Opel transmission in my folks basement. With a shop manual it was straight forward and enjoyable. I have been through the gear box on my '70 Norton Commando more times than I would care to mention. And I have become quite familar with the workings of the transmission and differential of a '40 H Farmall.

Manual transmissions are very straight forward to work on. A shop manual and a parts book will make the job much simpler. I would not hesitate to use the Bentley manual and rebuild the M47 tranny in my '87 240 ( if it wasn't such a rust bucket...).

Go for it.

Greg

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Onkel Udo II on Thu Aug 1 09:40 CST 2013
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last visit: Fri Oct 24 08:50 CST 2014

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As I remember it, there are a couple of guys who did full rebuilds and were able to find all the wear parts through Volvo. It would probably take some pretty creative searching to find the older posts.

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Goatman on Thu Aug 1 09:47 CST 2013
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Hi,

I’ve done a full rebuild of the M45 with the bronze bushed gears. The gears themselves wear as a set to the countershaft, so you can’t really replace them.

You can replace all springs, synchros, keys, bearings, and seals. They were still available two years ago.

Goatman

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by someone claiming to be oldduke on Thu Aug 1 14:04 CST 2013 [RELATED]

hi goat- isnt the m45 a straight forward 4speed trans with no overdrive? surprised parts for that are still available . think they have been out of production for a long time. are the parts available as an overhaul kit or do you have to trace down a multitude of individual parts? if a gear is shot , how do you replace it? thanks tons oldduke

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by Goatman on Thu Aug 1 14:31 CST 2013
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Yeah,

The whole reason I rebuilt the M45 was because it was so simple. I was very lucky to find one in the junkyard. I just ordered all the parts individually. There is no kit that I’m aware of.

If the gears are trashed, you‘re up shit creek. The list was like $700 for first gear. After that I lost interest.

Goatman

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the m47 ll repairability and cost 200

posted by TheBrickTank on Thu Aug 1 07:05 CST 2013
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last visit: Thu Oct 23 17:54 CST 2014

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Oldduke,

Not sure where you are, but I'm in Maryland.

I've found two in the PNP near me and they are asking $133.00 for one, so I'm taking both this weekend. That is if they are still there.

I found them on Tuesday, and can't get there till Saturday, so its the risk I take.

If I can, I may take off early tomorrow and start the process.

Hope this helps.

As far as rebuilding, I have a very good friend, who just rebuilt a Toyota Matrix transmission for around $500.00. He did it all himself and it took him about 3-4 months to get there. After seeing what he went through I might attempt it, but then again, we would need to get the rebuild kit for an M47 if they are available.

Take care,

Matt

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