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Hey yall, I could really use your help - trying to fix my girlfriend's volvo. It's a 1994 940 Turbo wagon. 140,000 miles and she bought it with 120,000. Here's the deal.
She took it to a mechanic a month ago for a basic tuneup, as it was stuttering and shaking at a red light. The mechanic put in new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. I'm guessing they weren't volvo oem.
Now a new problem has arisen - the car stalls randomly. I drove it around a bit and when it stalls, it just completely dies. Battery power is still there.. and usually it will turn over right away and off we go. A couple times (maybe, 3 out of 15 stalls) the car wouldn't turn over and we had to leave it and take a cab.
We took it back to the mechanic and he couldn't reproduce the problem (of course!). He checked the obd codes and there were no errors. But I don't trust him. So, I'm not a great mechanic but I can swing a wrench and decided to research a LOT.
It was getting late but I ran to Autozone and grabbed a fuel pump relay (not OEM) and thought it was worth a shot. I sat in the car and let it idle with the old relay, AND the new relay. After about 5-12 minutes of idling (random times) the car would stall. Fired right up afterwards.
Please save me from replacing every damn thing in the engine bay haha
I am considering buying the radio suppression relay and a CPS but I can't just throw $$ at the car until it magically stop stalling. Any help on this is much appreciated!
R
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Before you buy a RSRelay, locate yours and disconnect it's 4-pin plug. Then make and insert a jumper to connect the 2 fatter wire's holes in the connector plug and wrap it with electrical tape.
Drive it that way to see if the trouble is gone.
True, the jumper will put a constant 12V on (1) the injectors and (2) Ignition coil. But with the key & engine off there will be no ground connection to those two items. So there will be no current flow until the engine runs, when the Fuel and Ignition computers control the injector and coil grounds as usual.
If the jumper seems to cure the problem, you can just leave it, or do it right by replacing the RSRelay (Striebel is best) or trouble-shooting the ground path for the RSRelay coil. For some clues, see THIS POST and related entries.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Thank you all so much for the prompt and thorough responses.
I'm going to try as much of these suggestions as possible - although it's raining and I live in Brooklyn so it's not easy to work on the volvo on the street.
Here's the minor update anyway: I went out in the rain today to see what I could find. Ran the test and got 111. I unplugged the mass air sensor while the car was running (she started right up) and it started to stumble, so I pugged it back in and all was good. Ran test, got 121, cleared and ran again, got 111.
I then pulled on the CPS wire while running, nothing happened. The cable and harness looked to be in good shape. Visually inspected the RS relay and it looked fine, new even (mine is hidden under a fat wire loom so it was clean and dry). I will try the jumper cable though great idea.
Let me also point out that when the car stalls (today I drove it around for 10 minutes and it was solid, then I got it to stall twice while parked) the tach drops to zero before the motor does. So..Maybe it's an electrical gremlin.
My girl want to take it in to another shop tomorrow to try and get it diagnosed - but I will likely have to fix it on the street. Yikes this brick is killing me!
Thanks again please stay tuned
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Dear kaeoflux,
Hope you're well. Key question: does it always start smoothly when cold, but stumbles/stalls when warmed-up? If so, that points to the ignition power stage, which - when at the end of its service life - tends to fail when it gets warm.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Spook, honestly as far as I can tell it's completely random.
On a couple occasions it wouldn't start after sitting for almost 24 hours. After trying maybe 12 times it finally turned over.
Most days though it fires up fine initially, then stalls after about 10 minutes and continues to stall all day.
It usually starts easy after stalling but maybe 25% of the time it has a hard time starting after a stall. It will crank a couple times, and then fail to crank at all and I will have to wait a few minutes to try again.
Thanks again - after I sort this out I think this thread will prove helpful to others!
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UPDATE:
Good news! Or, bad news depending on how you look at it. I guess a mix of both.
I brought the car to a mechanic - the stalling got so bad I couldn't drive it anywhere. I told him I was pretty sure it was the Ignition Power Stage but he was dubious. He insisted on testing everything, so I said "fine just find the problem and I'll be happy".
In the end, it WAS the ignition power stage.
So, the 940 is fixed and running fine. YAY
But it cost me $315 and I could have fixed it myself for less than $100. BOO
Oh well. THANK YOU brick board
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Great! Sometimes it can be easier to just take it in.
I hope you didn't pay for "all the testing" because after all you called your shot!
--
'90 245 290k, '93 945 296k
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A little on the high side, 100$ part would normally be marked up by factor of 2x, so I get $200 for the part, but I dont see how he could charge more than a 1/2 hour diag and 1/2 hour to install. Whats his hourly rate? I guess I wouldnt cry to0 much, live and learn. Now you see why it is still economical to "throw parts at a problem" when they are cheap parts AND you are throwing parts at it that are
"known failure items" regardless. IMHO. Peace!
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good to see its fixed.
sorry to see the mechanic ripped you off. since you told him what to replace.
a junkyard trip to grab a few would have set you back 10 or 15 bucks and about 5 minutes to swap in the new/used one.
in the future i hope you can save yourself your money. thats what most are here to do.
i normally have extra parts like power stage. fuel pump relay. radio supression relay ect for junkyard type prices i can sell now and then to board members and i test them before i sell.
or find them on ebay cheap. wouldnt suprise me if he installed a aftermarket power stage. i hope he used heat sink grease.
good luck
Mike
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Glad to hear it was fixed!
I disagree you were ripped off- Hogwash! The mechanic spent time testing, not throwing expensive parts at it. Even though he told him what to replace, the mechanic still made sure the customer was right, that is exactly the service a good mechanic provides.
I would guess the $315 was half-labor, half-part. Power stages aren't cheap once mechanic marks it up. and further this is Brooklyn, not a small town.
Besides problem being fixed, you've likely found a good mechanic the next time there is a problem you can't DIY. All-around win in the world of Volvos.
--
I own a Volvo or Does Volvo Own Me? Try the easy to search Expanded Style FAQ Index http://40mph.com/Brickboard_700-900_FAQ_Expanded_Index_Version/
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i disagree and im calling hogwash also.
take care
Mike
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Maybe not hoqwash. I just want to point out, and stand-up for, that car repair is generally expensive, and in context this particular repair is expensive but not out of range for what it was. A real service was done and that costs money.
and further, doing car repair for 5 cents on the dollar isn't the only way to go about it, even though Brickboard kind of specializes in cheap repairs, and there are many users who to scoff at going to mechanics, not everyone has the time to go to the junkyard and pull parts, let alone install the parts, and troubleshoot. If one has time than one can save money, and so also if one has money they can save some time! it's valuable to know a mechanic that understands that too.
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hello
well enough.
good to see a different point of view.
regards
Mike
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Dear kaeoflux,
Hope you're well. The stuttering and shaking likely meant there was a mis-fire, which was cured by new distributor cap, rotor, and plug wires. One or more of those items - likely all factory-original - was simply worn-out. The distributor cap and rotor should have been made by Bosch (the supplier to Volvo). The plug wires should say Volvo or Bougicord (the supplier to Volvo).
As to the stalling, that's most likely due to a failing ignition power stage. This device is mounted against the inner fender wall, in the engine bay, just behind the headlmap. I believe that on turbo models, it is just behind the passenger headlamp. The power stage is flat, with a gray "cap" and mounted to an aluminum base.
Another possibility, is that the ground - to the fuel injection relay - needs to be cleaned. The ground points in the engine bay are also affixed to the inner fender wall, just behind the headlamps.
The corrosion need not be visible, to disrupt the circuit. Sometimes, a layer of corrosion only a few atoms thick (and so invisible) will stop the flow of power.
There are aerosol corrosion removers. You can also clean the ground tabs with fine steel wool or fine sand paper.
It is a good idea to consult this site's FAQs for a list of things to be replaced, when one acquires a car, without maintenance records. For example, if the radiator is the factory-original model, it is long past the end of its service life. When it fails - usually a host nipple will crack/break - all coolant is lost in a minute or so and severe over-heating results.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Good comments as usual Spook. Just to say though that the power stage is on the driver's side on T models, I currently have 3 of different years. It's easier to access also as the air box isn't there.
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Dear jerryc,
Hope you're well. Thank you, for pointing out location of power stage on turbo-equipped cars!! I prefer turbot, gently grilled....
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Fuel pump relay
Crank position sensor
Radio suppression relay
...should all be checked and or replaced.
You can re-flow the solder joints in the suppression relay. Inspect with a magnifying glass first for cracked solder joints. -- free
Wiggle the crank sensor wiring while the car is running (especially down by the bell housing) If it stalls that's the problem. If the sheath on the cable is cracked or compromised at all it should be replaced.
Cleaning ground points is -- free.
Remove, clean contacts and replace all of the fuses -- free
Spook's other suggestions like ground points and power stage are also likely culprits.
--
'90 245 290k, '93 945 297k
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ALso I did locate the ignition power on the driver's side behind the headlight. Is there a way to test it?
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Not really sure of a way to test it other than swap it out. It is mounted to a heatsink with two screws, you can try to unbolt it, clean the two surfaces and apply more heat-sink paste.
Buy bosch if you are going to replace it. I can tell you that I purchased a non-running 740 turbo many years ago and the issue turned out to be the ignition amplifier.
The under-hood heat of the turbo causes them to fail sooner than normally aspirated cars.... in my opinion ..
--
'90 245 290k, '93 945 296k
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Great thanks for the info I'll probably jut replace it to be sure
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