I am going crazy here. I know I bit too much off at one time and should be doing one thing at a time but I tear one thing down, find something else, order more parts & work on other things in the mean time. I replaced the timing belt, some suspension bushings, vacuum hoses and so decided to change the fuel filter while waiting for other parts to arrive. I ordered from one of the sponsors and while they have great prices and seem to respond decently they ship from everywhere three different ways in many shipments and that is also driving me nuts.

I did not touch the wiring at the ECU or the fuel pump relay until I started trouble shooting. I changed the fuel filter after depressurizing by pulling the fuse. The engine did start & run in order to get the fuel pressure out. Also disconnected the negative battery cable. I did disconnect the leads at the fuel pump that is on the same bracket on this model, so it would not be hanging from them. (I know there are two pumps) I also had to do a bunch of taping of those wires. The insulation on the yellow wire was just falling off so I stripped the loom off all the way up to the floor and taped both wires up very well using 3M. When I put the connectors back on & tested by turning the key on, no pump. Tested the leads, no voltage. Ran a wire direct from battery positive to pump + and it runs. Went to the fuel pump relay & tested continuity. The yellow at the pump changed to yellow / red under the back seat and this is continuous to the relay. The negative wire is connected to the frame there and it is good. The relay does not click and in testing I find that the negative control wire on the relay is not grounded. So I tried jumping a ground wire to that pin and shazam, the pumps both came on. Shut the key off & turned it back on, no relay click & no pump. I'm an electrical guy, not electronics wizard, but it appears to me that maybe I have a grounding problem in the ECU or maybe that negative is switched inside there and that has failed. Maybe I knocked a ground loose somewhere? I don't know where to go from here and the only diagram I have is in a Haynes manual, not for an 84. But it does appear to be the same.

Earlier I posted about this engine & found out it is not original. It is a B230F and I have no idea how old. The injection & idle lack of idle speed control makes it look like the 2.2 Jetronic. The ECU is Bosch 0 280 000 510 & has 078 in an oval. There is no second ECU or idle speed control. That looks like it should be the original 84 unit. VIN #2008982, made in Belgium.

I tried to find pin #17 at the ECU for ground and they are not labeled. Counted down one side & then the other to #17 like a pic in the Haynes manual shows an earlier model and that pin was not grounded.

Last resort, I tried grounding the relay pin so the pump came on and cranked the engine for quite a while. No start. I don't know if I cranked long enough. The battery is now on a charger and I am having my first beer.

Sorry about the length. I don't know how else to describe this. Is there anybody here who can tell me what to do next?

I think you have the LH 2.0

"When I put the connectors back on & tested by turning the key on, no pump."
• That's normal. Read on...

"Tested the leads, no voltage."
• Which leads? A you're assuming you're still at the pump, you won't see voltage untill the Pump relay closes, which will be when the ECU 17 grounds it's coil (blue-green) wire. And that won't happen until cranking, when the ECU knows the ignition is working (Ignition coil ground pulses to ECU 1).

"...in testing I find that the negative control wire on the relay is not grounded."
• Good testing job. Do you now see why the coil isn't grounded (yet)?

"The ECU is Bosch 0 280 000 510" So you have the LH 2.0, correct for '84.

"Last resort, I tried grounding the relay pin so the pump came on and cranked the engine for quite a while. No start."
• My 1st guess is ignition. No Bosch FI will pump fuel until it gets the OK from Ignition - in this case, the coil pulses mentioned above. Check the coil connections and see if there is spark at a grounded spark plug when cranking.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

OK Bruce, right again. I have no spark. There is no voltage at the coil or at the starter wires with the key on. In looking at the Haynes manual I see the wire colors I see don't all agree with what their diagram. Oh, fun.

So, coincidence or folly? I have not messed with anything at the ignition switch. All the dash lights come on. All fuses are good. Like I said before the system relay switches but the fuel pump relay does not. You explained very well why that is. It cranks over fine. I would suspect that I may have pulled something loose around the starter when I reached up from below trying to get at the coolant temp sensor but I see nothing yet. Dark & dirty in there. I will continue to try to find something pulled loose, but if you or anybody else has any suggestions of where to go next I am all ears. I'm in over my head now.

Maybe I'll have to change my name to Thick as a Brick Bob.
--
Bob

Say, Bob, I cut my Volvo teeth on the B23F LH2.0 83/84 240s, so I kinda know what you're going through.

Best advice I can give you is read whatever Bruce says carefully and follow it.

Meanwhile, you'll have your fun with Haynes until you realize they have drawings in there for markets other than US/North America, and of course, the 83/84 years have other engine and fuel options, which make wire colors and so forth seem to not match up. The most confusing of all is when you follow the map for the fuel relay on the main page, you are looking at a k-jet fuel system; the LH is on a separate page. All depends, of course on which of the 7 different editions of Haynes 240 you wound up with. You'll get so frustrated that when the Bentley finally arrives in your house, you will celebrate.

Here's my depiction of the ECU pinout, but without spark you'll really be needing the troubleshooting guide for the Volvo/Chrysler (V/C) "Computerized" ignition. Bruce will tell you how to test that with a jumper wire and a feeler gauge.

By the way, once you get your powerful specs on and a bright light out, you'll see the pin number embossed permanently in the Bakelite.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

On Form Eileen Pulls Them Out

Found the Bentley on eBay for 40 bucks so I may wait a few days now before this thing drives me crazy. Says he bought it years ago & never cracked it open. Sometimes the deals I find are not to be believed. I bought a backhoe on eBay. That blows people away. The money that has saved me is huge. Yes, I found a good forum to help with that and another for the truck. Finding the right forum help is sometimes a challenge and I am happy to have ended up here. There is a lot of good going on here.
--
Bob

Check Amazon or halfbay for the Bentley.
Dan

Thanks Art,

With that help I was able to measure the resistance of the coolant temp sensor and verify that yep, it is shot (shorted). Now if I could just figure out how to get to it. Then I tested the wire #1 to the coil, OK there. Also OK on the blu/wht wires coil to starter. This doesn't make sense to me. I need to recheck everything.

I suppose next I should look at the ignition switch but I didn't touch that yet. I think the problem has to be a break in wiring between the switch and coil or how it all ties to the fuses. The book has no diagram for the this 84 & later. I don't really know enough about this to start running jumper wires. Should I jump from 12V hot to the 15 side of the coil and see if I then get a spark? I should get a spark even if somehow I got the timing belt off a cog, right? I am going to go back & recheck all of that today.

Maybe I should order a Bentley but I'm not made of money. The idea buying this thing was to save money, not spend more and I have already had to buy some tools. Whooda thunk I would ever need the timing light that I got rid of years ago? Our only other vehicle is a big truck that gets 15mpg using $4 diesel.
--
Bob

OK, Bob, I'm with you.

Couple questions first. Are you dealing with an original wiring harness? Does the insulation look like it is crumbling?

With you on the reason for the car. A BIL keeps an old Volvo because his F350 isn't really necessary to haul his butt to work every day.

OK, so you don't need a Bentley. That's correct. It is for us hobbyists. Between the Haynes and this forum, you can have everything you need.

The temp sensor would be making the car too lean to start if it shows up shorted. That's most likely a result of or related to the crumbling wiring.

Getting 12V to the coil positive also sounds like wiring harness fun. The map shows a ballast resistor, so the battery (from ignition switch) arrives on a blue wire but it is brown from the ballast resistor to the coil 15. The blue wire originates on the unfused side of the fuse panel, rather than directly from the ignition switch. Odd, though, I don't recall a ballast resistor in my two B23F cars. Maybe never had a need to look for it?

Here are some links to my pix:
large map of 84 engine management
what my 84's wiring harness looked like inside the sheathing

And a pic of a temp sensor duly decrepitated -- in this case open and making things really rich. You get to it by removing the AMM hose and flame trap hose to remove the connector (rather blindly) and then use a deep 19 socket on a 10" extension 3/8 drive to pull and replace it. Don't lose the copper washer, and don't bother draining the coolant if you have the new sensor ready to thread in.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Mother Superior called all the nuns together and said to them, 'I must tell you all something. We have a case of gonorrhea in the convent.' 'Thank God,' said an elderly nun at the back. 'I'm so tired of chardonay.

You are the man! I started with another forum and fled the idiot factor there. I have much experience trying to do what you do in the solar power world & I gave up due to that idiot factor. I would post something I knew to be correct and idiots would argue with me. Gee, I have been off grid for years, I wouldn't have a clue there. (Sarcasm is my way of coping) You'll see later that I bought the Bentley. On it's way from CA, maybe Monday.

"Are you dealing with an original wiring harness?"
Who knows, probably. It isn't anywhere near that bad though, actually looks good. The only rotting I have found is on light color wires where they are exposed. Most look fine. Where would that resistor be hiding? THAT could be the culprit. Am I going to have to strip the whole harness & trace wires? About now I am wishing that I had bid on a newer 240 that sold recently for way too little out where you are. I couldn't face the plane ride & drive back all the way across the country, but it is beginning to look like it would have been cheaper in the long run.

The car was starting OK, but then would just about die, then surge, then die, etc. Got better as it warmed up. Makes sense. I have half of a brain about such things. Used to race motorcycles back when (way back). So now I need to get the connector off and ohm that wire.

You guys and your acronyms. BIL? Mine is an old F250, same thing, but "WORK?" (Maynord G Crebbs). 210K & runs great thanks to Amsoil, dual filtration & fuel treatment. However, 4 torque converters & total of $5K in transmission work. We full timed in a fifth wheel and that just tears them up. I know, way off topic. If I could figure out how to PM. HA! This forum is really a bit awkward to use. Send me an email. bobanene at gmail.
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Bob

Hi Bob,

The forum really is better for on-topic work than PM. BTW, BIL=brother in law. And BTW is by the way. BOB is break out box. Sorry. Art. What's it good for. Absolutely nothin!

Yes, on-topic, and within the forum, we get the chance to see our bull and misinformation challenged. I think I may have passed on some last post: That drawing is a preliminary one from Volvo, and it precedes production. I think it is wrong about the ballast resistor.

Here's what I think and remember from the two of them we had. There is no ballast resistor. The coil was changed from those of the previous year which did use a ballast resistor, from the 6V coil to one that can run full battery all the time. The ballast resistor scheme went away at the same time LH EFI changed the fuel from earlier fuel systems. So, don't tear your hair out (or get your sleeves really greasy) looking for a resistor that don't exister.

Now, this drawing backs up my poor memory in a better fashion. It still shows the wiring that should have been deleted -- that is the wiring to the 16 terminal of the starter, meant to bypass the ballast resistor during cranking. That may indeed have been there on those B23F cars. But chances are, yours got rewired or whatever during the engine swap. Lot of folks get those two terminals, 50 and 16 mixed up.

And notice, the throttle switch wiring is included for three different engines. Yours would have been the B23F (before swap) and the same parts would have been on the early B230's.

Check out Dave Barton's treatise on harnesses before you get too mired in the biodegradeable wiring controversy. It is a fact of life on your car. Anyway, he shows you how to tell if yours has been fixed: http://www.davebarton.com/volvoharnesses.html




--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

A wife was making a breakfast of fried eggs for her husband.Suddenly, her husband burst into the kitchen. 'Careful,' he said, 'CAREFUL! Put in some more butter! Oh my gosh! You're cooking too many at once. TOO MANY! Turn them! TURN THEM NOW! We need more butter. Oh my gosh! WHERE are we going to get MORE BUTTER? They're going to STICK! Careful. CAREFUL! I said be CAREFUL! You NEVER listen to me when you're cooking! Never! Turn them! Hurry up! Are you CRAZY? Have you LOST your mind? Don't forget to salt them. You know you always forget to salt them. Use the! salt. USE THE SALT! THE SALT!' The wife stared at him. 'What in the world is wrong with you? You think I don't know how to fry a couple of eggs?' The husband calmly replied, 'I just wanted to show you what it feels like when I'm driving.'

Egad, I love those jokes at the bottom. However, I need to admit that I didn't get one the other day. Thick as a brick?

Now, I went out to look with no intention of getting all greasy without a plan, just double checking things. All appears to be OK with the timing belt. All marks & rotor line up.

Got the volt meter out, hooked up to coil & turned the key. OMG, I have volts! It's intermittent! May the Norse gods take pity on me. I cranked while looking over the wheel where I have a spark lug grounded and see sparks. Hooked back up to #1, cranked while holding the fuel pump relay... It clicks! Still no start. I suspect that it will take a while to get fuel through the lines & injectors & the battery is in no shape for that (of course the PO put a cheap , small one in). Ho much time should I expect? Maybe I won't have voltage the next time I check. Or I'll figure out that the injectors are not firing. That diagram does look right.

BTW a big reason that I bought a brick is that they are not biodegradable like my old Subaru was. I remember those POS being described as the greenest car ever made, almost completely biodegradable. Now I find that the wiring on these things is.
--
Bob

OK, if cranking starts the pumps, then your ECU (that's the -510 gizmo) is getting the ignition signal. Usually that means the injectors will work, but those wires sometimes get hit by the bio-degradation, shorting together. A squirt of ether is a good substitute to prove you have all necessary except the fuel. A 'noid light is a cheap and easy way to know the batch-fired injectors are getting fed. Jumper fuses 5 and 7 to feed power to the pumps, if you are troubleshooting pressure or whatever. See In The Tank

Hey, I think you have to have actually been thick as a brick to get that one about On Form Eileen. <-- See if this helps.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

A woman came home, screeching her car into the driveway, and ran into the house. She slammed the door and shouted at the top of her lungs, 'Honey, pack your bags. I won the lottery!'

The husband said, 'Oh my God! What should I pack, beach stuff or mountain stuff?' 'Doesn't matter,' she said. 'Just get out.'

Here is where I am now, still not running.

I have tested a lot of wires and I cut the wiring harness from the ECU open. It all looks good, probably not original because it is a taped, not the molded cover. Wire from fuel injectors to ECU pin #13 OK. Wire from ECU to coil OK. I do not own a noid light. I have spark and fuel pressure, both pumps run. Remember, it ran before, so what did I bump to cause this is the question. It did not have voltage to the coil for a while and I believe that was a loose connection at the coil. It will run with ether, so I have spark.

The blue wire that has the harness part number on it is hanging loose at the firewall, not connected to anything. I did not notice this before, so is it supposed to be connected to something? This color does not correspond to test leads shown on the diagram art sent me, so ??????? There is another two wire connector hanging over where the Oxygen sensor connects that is not connected to anything. That, I know was not connected before and I expect that is a test point.

I have ordered an intake gasket and coolant temp sensor. Everything takes time out here in the wilds of rural Montana.

Any ideas are welcome.

Thick as a brick...
--
Bob

OK. Testing wires, I assume is done by checking continuity. Better way is to see the load is getting power. You know this, you just don't have a good map I suppose.

First up, is main power to the ECU. This arrives on the fat red wire fed by the blade fuse by the battery. It is responsible for getting power to the fuel pumps, the air mass meter, the idle motor, and the injectors -- all the power hungry stuff in the fuel injection independent of the ignition system. Because it carries a lot of current, the corrosion that creates faults in connections is not going to show up with ohmmeter checks -- you need to see it carry that current to a real load. Use voltage checks. A test light is fine.

There are two relays gating this power. One is called the system relay. It is there only because it can remain picked after key off for a short time to allow for the AMM cleaning cycle, but it feeds all those power hungry devices save the fuel pumps, which are gated by the other cube relay next to it. So the fat red wire winds up at terminal 30 on those two relays. A check of voltage there (while cranking) is proof the blade fuse circuit is working. An easier way is to backprobe the orange wire on the AMM which gets its juice through that system relay. Key on, it should be hot.

If all that is good, then you can begin to wonder about needing the harness opened up because the injector wiring is shorting out. But if that's the case, you're not looking to prove continuity, you're looking to prove the injectors see the ground provided by the transistor in the ECU for the short duration they need to be energized. A test light will do it. The 'noid light is just the $5 convenience for that function, as it comes with the connector that fits the injector.

As to what you might have bumped, a rotten harness is the #1 suspect. But at least be sure you have power.

The blue wire with the harness part number on it is the starter test socket. If you stick 12V there, you can crank from under the hood.

If you have another two-pin socket over by the exhaust side, that is possibly a clue you have either a replacement harness or the 84.9 version of LH2.0, which included a heated oxygen sensor. I would guess the former, or you would have mentioned it was plugged into a heated O2 sensor (HO2S). Wire colors go a long way toward identifying unknown terminations.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and leaky tire.

My apologies, I was looking at 2.0 and typed 2.2. You are right. I suspect nothing is really wrong, just needs more time to get the gas to the injectors, maybe better spark due to the battery being weak. I will try later after the battery gets charged better. I could jump it but too much trouble. I don't own a regular battery charger or a generator and we live off grid. It is hooked up to my solar power in the shop during cloudy conditions. That stuff, I do know. Power is my thing.

Is there anywhere I can go to get a diagram showing for sure which pins are which at the ECU connector? That would make some testing much easier, as well as less likely to disturb wire insulation that looks to be getting questionable. I fear having to change the harness. This insulation looks like the soy based stuff but I thought 84 was too early for that. It seems to be worse with light colors.

"Is there anywhere I can go to get a diagram showing for sure which pins are which at the ECU connector?"

Not much in the Bentley 240 manual, but the Haynes for 1976 thru 1993 (Blue Cover) has a pretty good LH 2.0 block diagram on page 4A-26.

The same Haynes has a similar diagram of your Volvo/Chrysler "computerized" ignition on page 5-7 (lower half).

I suggest using a 12V test light at the Pump relay. For example the coil ground (terminal 85 Blue-Green wire) can be back-probed to see the light ON when the Key is on. Since the ECU ground at 17 is open at first, the Key-On 12V coming in at 86 goes thru the coil to 85 (and ECU 17 is not yet grounds internally).

When cranking, if all is well, the test light should go OFF when the ECU makes the internal ground connection for 17, in response to getting Ignition Coil pulses at terminal 1.




--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

The question I asked has to do with determining which terminals are which when you are looking at the ECU. They are not marked. I know how to test the fuel pump relay, that is a separate issue now. What I don't know is how to make sure which terminal I test if I want look at the resistance of say the coolant temp sensor, which is on terminal #2 according to Haynes. (I have given up on trying to get the connector off of that thing without either destroying it or removing the intake manifold.) I don't know for sure which terminal #2 is. XrayBob suggested this on another thread and it makes a lot of sense to me, but since the terminals are not marked it is a challenge to determine which terminal is which.

I need to go thru the entire injection system to figure out what works & what doesn't. The check engine light is on and with no built in diagnostics I need to use the Sherlock Holmes approach and test one thing at a time until I find the culprit (or culprits). This is my first venture into diagnosing fuel injection without OBD but it doesn't appear to be rocket science. I think I am happy that I have an earlier, less complicated system.

I am also still happy I bought old Daisy, but I sure wish the PO had been more honest with me. He had to know about the engine swap and I suspect he knew about a couple of other things like a failing alternator and a loose inner tie rod end. I know for a fact that he knew the door locks would drain the battery because I found a sticky note reminder on the floor that said "remember locks". That was the first thing I figured out on my own and it was the first place I found rotted wiring insulation. Are we having fun yet?

"I know for a fact that he knew the door locks would drain the battery because I found a sticky note reminder on the floor that said "remember locks". That was the first thing I figured out on my own and it was the first place I found rotted wiring insulation. Are we having fun yet? "

I have a feeling, Bob, you are further along in your love or hate for this car, but I wanted to close a loop on your rotting wire comment here. The biodegradeable harness issue is a separate problem limited to the 1980-87 model years. It pertains to the main engine wiring harness.

These silicone insulated high-strand-count wires you found disintegrated at the door lock switches are used wherever flexible harness is needed. And they have a short life regardless of what year your car is. You'll find them in the tailgate wiring, under the car at the overdrive or manual reverse switch; pretty much wherever Volvo expected movement spanned by electricity. Even the alternator ground wire; although I don't think that was covered in silicone rubber.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"Negative? No, I am positive about this. Absolutely certain." -RS

Maybe put everything back together and try some starter fluid in the throttle body and make sure you have spark going to the distributor.
At least you'll narrow it down to what is failing.