|
|
|
Anybody know what the wire guage on the fat red power wire to the alternaotor is? It broke at the terminal and trying to find the right size ring terminal to somehow swage back on. Can't figure it out from haynes...
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
It is 6mm sq. which is a bit larger than AWG 10. Connectors made for 8 ga. wire are probably the easiest to use.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
They say you can do anything in international waters.
That's why I filled my hot tub with international water.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Alright Art - need your help
Wife took the car out last week, came back with all the indicators on the dash showing the alternator not charging. Looked under the hood and saw the big power cable off the back of the alternator was broken off at the ring terminal.
Spent the better part of yesterday creatively crimping a terminal on that wire on the car. Much to my dismay, that did not fix the problem. Since then did/checked the following
- Dash lights illuminate normally with ignition switch on
-Stupidly sparked the fat power wire to the alternator to the alternator body (don't think it touched one of the terminals) moving wires around before disconnecting the battery
- checked voltage power wire with ignition switch on ~12+ volts
- checked voltage at red exciter wire with ignition switch on ~12+ volts
- Checked resistance/continuity of blue ground wire - seemed fine
- Jumpered power terminal off back of alternator to battery positive post with a jumper cable - still no charge according to dash lights with engine running
- Checked voltage across battery terminals with car running - 12.7 volts
- R&R'd voltage regulator with one I just pulled off a 740 in a yard with much more brush left than the one on my car - no change.
I suspect i still need a voltage regulator as my understanding is that the alternators don't fail. Is there a way I can check the regulator before I order a new one and sit and wait for it to come in the mail?
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
"checked voltage at red exciter wire with ignition switch on ~12+ volts"
With engine running or stalled?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A marine biologist developed a race of genetically engineered dolphins that could live forever if they were fed a steady diet of seagulls. One day, his supply of the birds ran out so he had to go out and trap some more. On the way back, he spied two lions asleep on the road.
Afraid to wake them, he gingerly stepped over them. Immediately, he was arrested and charged with...transporting gulls across sedate lions for immortal porpoises.
|
|
-
|
|
|
also watched the alternator turning while engine running - belt not an issue
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
That brings to mind two false assumptions:
(1) "alternators don't go bad" Maybe ten years ago, but now they are dying left and right. I have quite a pile of them.
(2) "you can tell if the alternator is turning by looking at it" Yes, it could be turning, but the belt can be slipping with the result the alternator is turning at an rpm below where it will charge the battery. And it can be slipping silently. This is the result of glazed pulleys and belts and invisible oil film. The mechanical resistance the alternator provides takes a leap upward at the point where it begins to charge the battery.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A thief broke into the local police station and stole all the
toilets and urinals, leaving no clues. A spokesperson was quoted as
saying, "We have absolutely nothing to go on."
|
|
-
|
|
|
Still no luck after tightening the belts and cleaning up the pulleys with some alcohol. They do look glazed. I think Im to the point of buying an alternator.
Thanks for the help - where do I send the check?
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
Before you pull the alt, measure voltage from chassis ground to alternator case with the engine running. Or alternatively (!) use a long screwdriver to ensure a ground in case (!) that blue wire is literally hanging by an oily strand. Ohmmeter is not the tool for this.
Maybe then if your pick'n'pull where you got the regulator is far away, you can find an Autozone or equiv. to test yours on the bench. I'd probably not buy one from them, so I'd feel guilty getting them wrapped up in their sales pitch and doing the free testing, but that's not because I'm cheap, but due to the way they quality control the remanufactured units. Their method is to insure them by warranty instead of making sure they are rebuilt with quality.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
The ad says: "Automotive Technician Training -- Get Job Ready in Less Than a Year."
|
|
-
|
|
|
When I measure voltage from the alternator case to chassis ground i show 0.0 volts
What's strange to me is that I thought the broken 8 guage cable would fix the problem - it seems improbable to me that something else would concurrently go out. If the broken end of that cable is flopping around in there while driving for 6 miles or so what problems could that cause...
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'm not much of a speculator. With the blue wire intact, I cannot imagine the flash you had to the case with the battery voltage did any harm, nor can I imagine anything vulnerable exposed in the vicinity.
Mostly what I envision are technician-induced troubles, like (speculating here) allowing the B+ post to turn when tightening the nut and severing the internal connection to the diode plate. Mostly things that don't deserve the time it takes to imagine, but do succumb to investigation. I'd take it apart and try to fix it. But I have the tools and experience. And the experience derives from a certain number of failed attempts, as does the tool collection.
But I am thrilled to hear you respond to the suggestions I've made thus far.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Subj: How To Diaper A Baby
"Spread the diaper in the position of the diamond with you at bat. Then fold second base down to home and set the
baby on the pitcher's mound. Put first base and third together, bring up home plate and pin the three together.
Of course, in case of rain, you gotta call the game and start all over again." -- Jimmy Piersal, on how to diaper a baby, 1968
|
|
-
|
|
|
I finally got back to it. I pulled an alternator of a 740 in the yard, installed and now I'm getting a charge.
So it would seem that the alternator was toast, either from the power wire breaking off while driving as Derek suggested here or from over-torquing the stud while reconnecting the newly crimped wire. As it is past my bedtime, I'm not going to break open the alternator to find out right now. Of course when/if I get to it I will post back.
What is Art's rule of thumb for alternator belt tensioning?
Thanks for all the help and suggestions!
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'll stroke my chin on this for a bit but expect I'll R&R the alternator as I've already surpassed the amount of time i should be spending on this. Also, I tend to err on the side of not tight enough, almost to a fault. That's why the slipping belts seemed like a probable cause - that and residue from a tranny fluid seep up there at the radiator. I think that severing that internal connection would be unlikely, though definitely possible.
Regardless of the outcome, I appreciate the help and will post back when this thing is back in service.
One more observation - while running, i held the voltmeter to the battery terminals and expected to see the voltage drop over the course of a few minutes. It didn't noticably, so I turned on the lights. Voltage dropped half a volt to 12.05V but then stayed there for 2-3 minutes until i shut the car off. I would have expected the battery to drain faster than that...
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
The rate of drain sounds OK to me. It varies, according to the condition of the battery, but I count on getting about 50 daytime miles from one after a charging failure on an LH-fueled 240. :)
Let us know what you wind up doing.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Bakers trade bread recipes on a knead to know basis.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'm going to pull another alternator from the yard next chance I get - both to save some money and because at first look they look expensive and hard to come by at Napa, Carquest, etc. At that point I may or may not break the old one open and see if anything is amiss.
As the yard has no 240's i need a part number list to cross reference when looking through the 740's and 940's in the yard - i'm thinking i'll look around the Bosch website unless there is a better source for this info.
It will be 1.5 to 2 weeks before i have a chance to get back at it but will post back.
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
Have we considered that the alternator diodes might have blown when the main alternator lead broke off? It might also have been make/breaking for a few seconds befor it did so. I thought that disconnection when running was death to an alternator?
|
|
-
|
|
|
#2 definitely seems plausible - going to investigate that further
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
Engine not running - ignition switch 'on' position
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
That conflicts with your report the warning lamps are on in lamp test mode.
Re-check carefully. The "ground" the alternator supplies through the regulator to the D+ (exciter) lead when the alternator is not turning is what lights those lamps. The voltage at the D+ should be around 1.8 - 2.2 volts key on engine off.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Back in the 1800's the Tate's Watch Company of Massachusetts wanted to produce other products, and since they already made the cases for watches, they used them to produce compasses. The new compasses were so bad that people often ended up in Canada or Mexico rather than California . This, of course, is the origin of the expression,..."He who has a Tate's is lost!"
|
|
-
|
|
|
Just rechecked. Exciter wire (small red) voltage key on engine off is 2.05V. Large red wire voltage 12.2.
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'm just guessing but I would say 10 gauge
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks Guys
--
'90 Volvo 240 DL, '96 850 Turbo
|
|
|
|
|
