posted by
someone claiming to be Teal 240
on
Mon Mar 25 14:38 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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Hi all, a question on my 1990 240 wagon. The old originial R12 system is not working (compressor turns) and I wondered if it was possible/advisable to swap everything (except the evaporator) with a known working 134 system from a wrecked 1993. That would be re-routing the receiver/drier, transferring hoses and compressor. Or is it easier to work with what I have. I don't know where the leak is coming from in the r12 system as I haven't had it checked out. Thanks, Greg
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hello
i have restored a number of pre 134 systems on 240's for the low cost of a new drier mounted in the same place with a new low pressure switch already attached.
http://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/4244/Receiver-Drier-1370235/
then vacuuming of the of system to determine no leaks and a fresh charge of 134.
this method works very very well if the r12 old ac compressor is sound.
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I went through this about 5 years ago with my 90-24. I converted to 134 and it didnt work out. Didnt cool to satisfaction. Always needed a recharge. So I went back to R12. System works well now.
My understanding is that R134 will never work as good as R12 in stock 90 240 volvo.
That was my experience.
Just make sure the work is done by someone who knows what there doing. Dont be stingy.
Larue
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posted by
someone claiming to be Teal 240
on
Tue Mar 26 14:41 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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Thanks, All for weighing in on this, It sounds like I would be best off going to an AC expert and seeing if I can fix the r12 leak and go from there. The other 92 I had was still on r12 and did cool better than the 92 that was converted. Great input and I appreciate it! Greg
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posted by
someone claiming to be oldduke
on
Sat Mar 30 09:02 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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hi sages - read this thread and thought that in my experience the two greatest opportunities for shysters in the auto repair business are automatic transmissions and air conditioning. although electronics and computers re rapidly catching up to them. all backyard mechanics should become aware of this if not already. been working on cars since 65 and am amazed that so little has been done to improve technology and longevity in these two items over the years.this is what i have frequently seen : r12 is generally unavailable, acs remain fragile and expensive to repair, if 134a is on its way out/ what next?, auto trans repair has been a frequent scam since the early 50s. remember uncle moe almost getting clipped for a 1000$ auto trans rebuild in his 56 ford 2 speed fordamatic and then at the last minute replacing a screw in vacuum modulator for $2.95. solved his problem for the next 50k miles. even with the volvo 240s i have heard of today at r and rs costing $3-4k. heres the bottom line- next time in a junkyard, notice all the late model cars of most makes particularly fwds from gm and japanese companies that appear to be in good condition in and out. ask the yard operator about this. you will find the frequent answer is bad ac or dead auto trans. this represents a terrible waste of resources. sorry dont have an answer unless it is better technology which is more reliable, has more longevity and is easier and cheaper to repair. moe says im just whistling dixie with that one. (been to the volvo dealer lately for a repair- if not you may die from sticker shock). thanks tons for your time oldduke
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Might it be possible that the orifice valve is made up with trash? These are really cheap. I'd vote for a flush, replace the orifice valve, o-rings, oil, and accumulator, then recharge the R-12 and look for leaks and other possible issues.
For the fun of Volvos,
Mike
--
'92 245DL, '90 760 GLT
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I feel that all your statements are accurate if he has contamination.
Contamination in the orifice would cause excessive head pressure and a lower low side pressure than normal, along with some poor cooling symptoms.
He said the system is flat of refrigerant due to a leak, so there is no way he can go there at this time.
If he decides he has to go to R134a he will have to do all the things you suggested for an system with an orifice.
His system is older, per bcg, so he might need to readjust or exchange the thermal expansion valve out.
Since he has the smaller evaporator, already in the car, he should do, as you stated and try to stay with R12.
He might beable to use a drop in substitute refrigerant that may allow him to keep the same oil too.
The leak started the whole problem, so fixing that and working with other products now available should make it possible for him to have the most advantageous outcome, overall!
He has made another post that he is going to do some research. I hope he can pull it off, with an up to date, professional automotive A/C person, with a conscience. He may have to shake some bushes for that last part! (:)
Just an added note, R134 and then R134a was their second attempt to replace a problem refrigerant. Money and patents was the prime motivators of the whole fiasco.
As I said in my other post the R134's were a mistake and it is coming back around again. This third strike ( acting like CO2 ) is going to do the trick!
Several states have already banned over the counter sales to the public.
We will just have to hide and watch!
Phil
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I have a '91 and still use R12. The only leak I have ever had was the special Volvo valve on the accumulator can on the firewall. It does not mean that you could not have a hole in a line somewhere. A vacuum pull down test will provide a clue to what size leak you have.
I ended up plugging the very top of the valve under the cap with a stoned flat metal slug super glued to the surface over the valve pin opening.
If you can find some R12 it is best to stay with that as it is about ten percent more efficient. R134a is on its way out as they are now saying it creates more of carbon dioxide foot print effect that than the R12 affected the ozone!
If you go to R134a you will have to clean the system of the older oil. I do not know if it requires a different orifice tube size or if the use that on a 1990 car.
Phil
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hi phil,
if i'm not mistaken, the orifice tube came on the 91-93 volvos with the use of the gm-style accumulator.
these cars had the inline orifice tube. i think the end of the expansion valve and start of the orifice tube years were 90 and 91, respectively.
regards,
byron
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Thanks for the clarification on the expansion device.
Does that mean he has the smaller evaporator that they used on all the cars prior to the 1991?
You did mention him changing that out with a heater core so he would get a two for one upgrade in the bargain.
If he goes to R134a he will need the larger evaporator to help make up for the lesser efficient refrigerant. That is why Volvo gear up early for the change over as most people were not totally happy with the smaller evaporator with R12 over the years.
Phil
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hi phil,
yes, the later 240s have a larger evaporator for the r134.
regards,
byron
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hi greg,
first question i have is how long do you want to keep your car? i swapped out the entire a/c from my 86 245 (same a/c setup as yours) from a 92 donor. it's a bit involved and no easy task. some point i had to do.
1. condenser from donor car, some grinding down and drilling to install.
2. part of firewall, from a 90 volvo, and it has to be from a 90.
3. complete hose removal going through firewall.
4. swap out the complete heater matrix which includes the heater core.
5. you will need to get the a/c high and low pressure metal tube lines.
6. i did the wiring where i use the old dial thermostat from my 86 and one pressostat is wired closed, and the other not used.
7. you will be removing the dash and parts of the metal frame for the dash, wiring.
8. i didn't do this, but i suggest to replace the heater core with a new one. i used the 92, which is doing fine for me.
9. you'll probably want to replace rusted, worn parts while you have everything out. good time to replace the fan switch resistor and install a new blower fan.
10. write down everything with drawings so you will know how to reassemble everything. for example, the vac hoses to the vents will be removed, you don't want to mess that up after reassembly.
i think i took out the front seats, too.
you can expect your car to be down for a while, not a weekend project. so, you will need a second car to use while you work on your volvo. i took my time, replaced other parts while i tore all of it out.
i used a 92, not a 93 which is a little different. i would go with a 92 donor because a 93 is different (fewer of them for parts?).
good thing about doing this is you completely reassemble the a/c with new oil, new o-rings, better, larger evaporator, and a complete, behind the dash inspection.
i installed the system in 2009 and the a/c is cold, good, and lasts. i plan to keep my 86 for a long time.
hope this helps.
regards,
byron golden
86 245
92 245
94 940
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