My grandson has a nice 240 4dr 1987 vintage i believe. The body is sound and has good paint, a few baby dents mar the surface, chrome is good and the interior is nice.. Since he bought it for $2,000 he has made improvements and has corrected a number of issues with the car. Engine oil leaks, fixed. Exaust system, replaced. Front and rear brakes, replaced. Oxy sensor, replaced, New shiny tailights. Other odds and ends, a Thule roof rack I found at the dump but in good condition. I don't have a complete list. He's tiring of the repairs and despairs at having now to replace the belts and wants to sell it. Worse than that he is thinking about buying a 97 Miata (80K on the od and a 5 speed trans) to replace it.

I think that he'd be selling a car with a known history for one with an unknown history and maybe a number of it's own issues. Of course it's hard to tell what other surprises lurk in the 240. These things are hard to judge of course.

I would like to get some pros and cons that I can use to support either side. He's 18 almost 19 and in school. I remember being that age and just wanting a car that works so I get that part.
I also have sold a lot of cars that I wish now I never did for various reasons. I have 2 Amazons that
I drive when the weather is good but almost never in winter, I don't know much about 240s except that when a friend's 240 died I talked him into replacing it with a 122, he did and is happy (he had wrecked his dad's 67 estate when it was still a new car and so wasn't that hard to convince). He liked the fact that the 122 had no computer and was just simpler in general.

Hi hairy apple,


FYI. Have fun whatever you guys decide to do. Good luck!



http://www.miata.net/faq/usedmx5.html


http://www.miata.net/faq/inspection_list.html


http://www.miata.net/faq/Miata90-97A3.pdf

At age 19 most of us would do the same - go for the fun factor. Your grandson may have developed an attitude to the 240 such that even small maintenance items now seem like the last straw, and that the car "always needs work".

The Mazda will come with its own set of problems, but he'll have to learn that. Meantime it will attract those college girls at a much higher rate than the old Volvo.

It would be cool - if you have the space and inclination - to buy it from him for fair market value with a 2-yr option that he can buy it back at the same price. That might allow him to get the roadster lust out of his system and have his first car back. Remind him that the Volvo has a back seat ;-)
--
Bob: Son's XC70, daughter's 940, my 81 and 83 240's, 89 745 (V8) and S90. Also '77 MGB and some old motorcycles

"Meantime it will attract those college girls at a much higher rate than the old Volvo."

You do realize that is the lie we all tell ourselves when we want X car that does not make sense...yeah, the chicks will dig it. Truth is, few will notice the kind of car in a way to say "oooooh, he is so much cooler".

Besides, now the the 240 has a retro vibe going (it won't last) in a lot of circles, it can be just as big a draw.

To the OP, the Miata is quite a reliable and robust car...you would never guess by looking at them. they are even pretty easy to work on. Let the kid enjoy it but try to see the Volvo goes to good home. Personally I am a fan of the NB Miatas but that is just me.

The reliability of a 240 with a couple of decades and tons of miles on it is *very* heavily dependent on the sort of care it received in it's prior life.

I have a 1993 wagon that was pampered for 119K miles in NYC before I got it. A massive pile of dealership receipts for all the scheduled maintenance, and some hypochondriac repairs as well (it made a noise... REPLACE EVERYTHING!). In any case, my wagon is a real peach. Other than me doing un-advised science experiments with the motor and blowing it up occasionally (300 HP at the wheels has its price, coming and going), my wagon is a peach (145K miles on it now).

Bought my daughter a 1991 244, with 150K on it. It's been problem after problem. Some minor, some not. It's had a recurring issue with it setting various codes and getting 18 mpg. The radiator leaked trans fluid into the coolant and vice versa. The tailshaft bushing on the automatic went out. The wipers went from working weirdly to not working at all. Of course, the taillights are incredibly erratic (sedan printed circuit taillights = *tearing your hair out*). Had leaking exhaust manifold gaskets, no sooner had I taken that off and replaced it that it started tossing out 'Headgasket' symptoms. She left it in town while she went off to college for a semester. Problem after problem. There was a stck of receipts from the previous owner as well, but for all sorts of weird repairs that some shady shop overcharged for (and many of which were still not right).

In any case, I think the idea is that some cars have built up a massive maintenance deficit from previous owners. The car may still look nice, but it will likely be a money pit for some time. Of course, at some point you'll run out of things to keep fixing.

And a Miata? I have to say, I can't blame him. In February of 1990, I traded in my BMW 318is and got a red package B Miata. Enjoyed the *HELL* out of that car for the next 6 years of my life. I'm not sure how many things Mazda gets right as a company, most of their cars are FWD lumps of which I have no interest at all. The RX8 is a rotary powered car still, eats gas, makes no torque, interesting to some but not me. Don't care about most of their CUV crossovers either.

But the Miata is one thing they got incredibly right. It's a Lotus Elan, with 500 (600?) lbs of reliability and durability added (1550 lbs vs. 2100?). It's incredibly fun. If you don't have a stopwatch or notice minivans pulling away from you at lights it feels fast. It's an incredible joy to drive on twisty country roads. It's one of the few cars I was ever compelled to frequently drive around for no reason other than it was so fun. Top down in the winter (heater blasting), top down in the summer (A/C blasting). All the charm and enjoyment of a Brit roadster, all the reliability and durability of the best Japanese cars. To this day I still occasionally troll Craigslist looking for cheap 1st gen Miatas, only thing holding me back is I'd need to get rid of one of my Volvo's, and I can't bring myself to do that.

So really, can't fault either choice really. Obviously, the 240 is a more practical car, the Miata has two seats only, barely any room on the shelf behind the seats (if the top is up), and the trunk is tiny as well. But other than that, the Miata is probably as durable as the 240 is (people put 250K on them routinely, driven hard the whole time), and probably a fair bit more reliable as well.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)

If I was young right now I'd certainly have a 1997 or 1999 Miata (prefer the 1999 miata's front lights that don't pop up and styling). He's young. Get the convertible now. Enjoy it before he gets a family.

I've spent lots of time on Miata Brickboard type of forums and they are reliable cars.

Make sure the timing belt is changed and enjoy it.

As far as fun for the money the only thing that comes close to the Miata is a Jeep Wrangler.

Having to replace belts on a 240 seems like a silly reason to get rid of it though.

I'm trying to get my soon to be 16 year old son to appreciate our 240 wagon. He likes that it is "old" and he can see that it is a "classic". Yet, he is drawn to BMW 3 series cars of the same vintage.

He loves the way the Amazons look and he certainly likes any Volvo with a turbo motor.

We will see what he ends up driving, but initially he will be in our 240 wagon for a year or two (until he wrecks it or until he gets enough cash to get his own car).

13

Since he's already done all that work, try to encourage him to keep working on the car. He has been doing it, himself? Get him some tools or a new jack to keep his interest up. Maybe you could help him find a 940 as an upgrade. Much the same car
--
89 240 wagon, 94 940, 200K, 94 940, 135K

So

The Problem is. It's not a Wagon

If it was the attraction would be clear

http://vimeo.com/53367113

give em a talk an buck em up

babes

I agree with you that after all the work that went into the 240 it is a known entity and probably the better bet than the unknown Miata. That 80K on the Mazda could be an easy 80 or a hard 80. Original owner? Service records? Clean and well cared for? The Miata could be nice if it was a weekend car from an original owner. 80K is not a lot of miles for a '97. Then again it could be in the hands of its third owner with many deferred repairs.

Anyway, the bigger issue I think is that your grandson has "eyes" for the Miata. When I was his age it was an MGB. It wasn't as good as the car I replaced it with but I had to have it.

If he doesn't want to deal with replacing wear items like belts, his best bet is probably a brand new car and car payments.

Yes, a new car is how we all at one time or another have made that worst investment of life's needed goodies.

The dealers get them while their young, when signatures flow easily and when they are definitely starry eyed!
My first large vehicle was a brand new XLT Ford truck. I thought a domestic truck would be more useful than a car, hold its resale value, use it for moving me about and a lots of others as it goes! The trucks engine turn out to be lemon at 19k with a 12k warranty and no such thing as a lemon law then. No more new vehicles for me!

I have four cars that I got way on the cheaper side of retail and I do not pay any parts men anything close to $1,500 a year to maintain ALL of them. I learned a long time ago that I rather pay a parts man (or junkyard) than pay a salesman a commission for smiling and smelling better than the out gassing fumes of a new car.

A new car just comes with to much depreciation, from too many directions to make it worth it, just to carry my sorry butt around!

There is a certain amount of satisfaction to know how to repair a car, to know I can make it go and beat back at the systems that robs you.

Phil

I'd stick with the 240. If he thinks he has issues now, just wait tell he gets behind that Miata lol. I've owned a 122, 1800's, and a 140 and I can tell you the 240 is by far the best all-around Volvo I've ever own. But just like any car, you have to maintain it.

Replacing the belts is nothing to fray over. If he has questions about the job, a simple search here would provide him all the answers he needs.
--
1990 240 Wagon, 1984 Turbo Wagon, 1971 1800E Auto, 1971 1800E 4-Speed

Unless your grandson has had one of these vehicles before, I believe it will always be seen as a money pit to him. On one hand, these cars can be very expensive to repair. On the other hand, it you can keep up with the maintenance, they will literally run forever.

Via the Magliotti brothers (of Click & Clack, "Car Talk" fame), the yearly national average on used car repairs is $1,500. Whether it is this vehicle, or the Miata, those will always be the facts with either one. In fact, the Volvo will be higher as it is a higher end vehicle.

After 13 years and 242K put on my particular '90 245, my average costs are as such:
- first 6 years, $1,900 in average maintenance costs
- second 7 years, $2,200 in average maintenance costs.

This is all via an outside mechanic as well, which is drastically more expensive than doing the work myself.

Including the $4K cost to purchase the vehicle 13 years ago, my cost per mile on the vehicle presently is at .13 a mile. That's a hard figure to beat.


1990 245 w/363K

Mazda cars do have an appeal to the young at heart. Mazda cars have always presented a dollars worth of car for the dollar you spend at the time. The 626 series built up their reputation of value as they were quite durable if maintained and driven accordingly. I respect Mazda for that but it wanes from there. I suspect at 80k the same is happening.

After a point, which happens to be close to ten years all the bets change, as with most all Japanese cars. First of all the government or ministry of Japan does not require ANY Japanese manufacturer to supply parts after ten years. If the car was a low volume selling unit it can drop sooner and even more so in the aftermarket.
They also require all the island cars to be removed from their roads after five years or about 50k miles for emission and prosperity reasons.
That is why power train parts are very plentiful in our country as they are purchased by dismantlers really cheap and they can find us to pawn them off on! It is a really nice business for the back alley auto shops.

This is where you grandson is going to get clobbered is when he needs just one teenie weenie part for a sports car! Sports cars are different animals from what he has repaired and of course this is a Miata. They are not that popular and even more so in the junkyards, that he may be used to shopping in.

He needs to think about the low 80k mileage and research the forums for their quirks and the types of people who follow the cars.
There is not much room in those cars and I see lots of them get out with just an obscure looking hat on their heads. Both, men and women that probably have nothing more than an apartment and a Phd. too boot! Not exactly the mechanically incline, if you know what I mean.

He needs to evaluate the PO carefully, as this could be just a owner of a car that has an equal amount of quirks. Maybe, he or she, needs another pair of shoes or wants something for their boots now!

I feel your worry too, about the safety of something so small but quick. Has he priced the insurance for a sports car at his age! If its a low volume car, their parts get on listed with the midnight auto clubs!

Just thinking with you.

Phil

You have just explained why I see so many Toyota "Delica" and "Town Ace", and Mitsubishi RHD vehicles around here. If they are effectively legislated off the road at fairly low km's and age in Japan, then no doubt some smart guy in Vancouver is importing them by the containerload for dirt cheap, adding a fat markup and still selling them way below a good used RAV-4.

They look like a crossover between a small SUV and minivan, but with bull bars and lift kits. Nearly all have diesel engines and AWD. They are incongruously narrow and tippy-looking. The (large) counterculture crowd around here seem to like them for the economic and antiestablishment reasons.

But there's a statistic I saw somwhere that RHD's are involved in 40% more collisions than LHD vehicles here in our LHD market. And I have been nearly forced off the road when one of them following a big truck comes almost right out into my lane before he/she can peer around the truck and see me coming.

End of rant - sorry for lack of Volvo content.
--
Bob: Son's XC70, daughter's 940, my 81 and 83 240's, 89 745 (V8) and S90. Also '77 MGB and some old motorcycles