posted by
someone claiming to be Hawkone115
on
Tue Jan 29 19:53 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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Wife is on way home from work when the ole 240 dl putters then dies. She trys to restart, engine starts drives 5-6 blocks them dies again. Leaves vehicle on side of road until I get home, It sits for about hour and a half. I get to where she left it on road and I start it and I drive it home about 8 miles, I notice it sputter or jerks between 2-3 gear, but does not die. It sputters uphill a littleunder load, I got it in garage checked distributor for cracks nothing found, it does smell a little rich on the fuel. Noticed while driving in the other day in cold weather the idle was a little elevated, but it is not now. I checked distributor first because previous experience tells me when weather temps go up and down distributors sometime crack. It was 75 here yesterday now 43 degrees. i started vehicle three more times starts right up, little rough but not bad. Any thoughts?
Ted
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so, did you fix this thing, or turn it into ashtrays?
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You are right to suspect the ignition system first as that seems to be a high speed miss.
Cleaning he crud off the distributor terminals was the good move.
Excessive spark plug gap was not good either and that larger gap noted for the plugs are for High Energy Ignition systems not used on these cars.
Even on the nineties cars with their power stage amplifiers I do not recall that specification being used. Where did you read that about that?
As far as for this car stalling, check these things out for a maintenance measure.
Make sure the fuse and its holder next to battery is clean or in good condition. Check the terminals block that is under a little black cover on the fender next to there, for the same stuff.
Clean all of the fuses and clips in the fuse panel by the drivers door. Just a note that at the very bottom of the fuse panel there are holes for spare fuses too.
The FPR is not likely to cause the car to stall. It's purpose is only to divert excess fuel back to the tank while adjusting the fuel pressure under varing load conditions sensed through the vacuum hose and enriches the fuel mixture for several small reasons you may not notice, greatly, when working properly.
If you suck on the end of a good hose slipped snugly onto that nipple and place your tongue into the end of it, it should hold that vacuum, until you let it leak down. If you get a taste of gas or it leaks down, it is a bad boy. They also can become leaky on the other side, at the check ball seat and cause hard-to-start problems like losing fuel rail rest pressure.
Pick up a spare used one that looks decent on the outside, meaning not rusty/crusty and checks good vacuum wise on both sides, and are cheaper, like five bucks or less from junkyards.
In my car spare tire cover, I keep that, a set of light gage wire jumper leads for troubleshooting and a white fuel injection/ fuel pump relay, that installs behind the glove box, with some spare light bulbs.
I look at these things as "like" light bulbs and someday they will quit working. Unfortunately, you do not see them when they do quit but everyone, passing by you, does!
Phil
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posted by
someone claiming to be Hawkone115
on
Wed Jan 30 20:23 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for the info. The fuse 25 amp near the battery is new and came with the after market harness Dave sold me. I did remove the fuse and placed in back in the holder as it was not blown. As far as the fuse panel on the drivers side I will say the panel is immaculate, copper cotacts are tight. I removed the fuses several months ago to check for tension and corrosion issues and found none. Some are the original aluminum ones I may go ahead and replace those. I have spare copper fuses (bought out circuit city auto sound department) and found out were the spares go at the bottom of the fuse panel after I rechecked them today. I have a friend who is a mechanic and is letting me borrow a draw down vaccum gauge to check the fpr. While I have not really located the problem I was asking myself if water vapor in fuel could be the culprit since temps the day before were in the 75 degree range them dropped to 20? I need to get the location of the misc. relays, some of those were replaced as I saw one with a 2003 date stamp on it behind the glove box.
Ted
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posted by
someone claiming to be Hawkone115
on
Wed Jan 30 20:41 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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Another question where is the cps on the 1986 240? I believe it is located just above the temp sensor on the left side of the engine next to the distributor? If the cps fails does this mean the engine fails to run?
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Thu Jan 31 00:50 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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above you posted:
"I drove car today about 30 miles. Before I took off today I remove all four spark plugs. All were dry. I left the vehicle overnight in the garage, so I do not know if that made a difference. I cannot for the life of me replicate the problem my wife had with it, nor the miss I felt last night. The only things I did today was regap the plugs because after I put a gauge on them they were at .045-.050 Owners manual says betwenn .024-.028 quite a large difference but I think not enough to make the stalling issueas it never had before last night."
Before you go any further with this thread please answer: Is the Problem GONE???
You took off the distributor cap...you pulled off the wires to the plugs to remove them. If the problem is gone now then maybe there was something wrong there... maybe wires not seated right?
correct me here if I've missread your problem.
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posted by
someone claiming to be hawkone115
on
Thu Jan 31 08:31 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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Pulled wires off plugs, no seating issues. For now the problem is gone, but I am not convinced this was/is the problem.
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This problem is why most of the old time Volvo owners/drivers carry spare parts with them when they go anywhere.
If I were you , I would buy a new fuel pump relay, good used ignition module, good used distrbutor (for Hall Sensor, cap, rotor button, etc).) and a used, known to be good, Jetronic Fuel injection module. Plus I would keep some spare fuses and a 12 volt test light in the car.
You can find all of these parts for very reasonable prices if you have the time to shop around.
Having plug and play parts are a big help when you're broken down on the side of the road.
I'm not saying that these cars break down more than other cars....actually they're much more dependable than the average automobile, and are a great source of low cost, comfortable, safe transportation (if you do your own work)....I'm just saying that most of the time the problem that will strand you is usually very simple but sometimes can be a real bear to find.
Especially the type of problem that you're having...most of the time it runs great until you're driving along and it quits for no apparent reason.
All of us old time Volvo guys love these cars and know most of the little quirks that can cause you to call for a ride. If you will take the time to learn about them,(this web site is a great place to learn) your life will be much easier if you drive a Brick.
Just my opinion
steve
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This car does not have a CPS. I think they did not go to those until 1988 or 89. This one uses a hall sensor in the distributor. It does the same thing just from a different location on a bigger diameter of the flywheel. Supposedly, more accurate for that reason but failure rate may negate that!
There is a control unit on the right fender area that has a plug to connect it up. I sure hope it has never been removed as it has one time use connectors. I heard it was some of Chrysler's handy work along with the white distributors caps!
I had one wire go bad there too. For some reason,I think it was a yellow in color too. If it goes bad it can cause the car to be hard to start or cut out but I doubt it would just be between 2nd and 3rd gears. Eyeball them anyway for peace of mind.
I put the other information on my posts in case you were not familiar with this car or others can read along for the information too. I won't say I ramble,...oh...no...not...me? (:)
I have the same car in a 245 and have not replaced the harness. I have replace only one wire in it so far and I think I am gambling! It is such a PITA just to reach, let alone work on. If I ever need to do a intake gasket I might use that opportunity to use less choice words. (:)
How does your new harness deal with that control unit connector?
Phil
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How about a vacuum leak in the IAC hoses, my 86's are sensitive to drafts.
paul
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Year? Engine?
Most common causes depending on years are:
fuses
Fuel pump relay
Ignition power stage
25 amp fuse under the hood
Fuses on the battery post
crank position sensor or Hall sensor wires ...again depending on what year you have
Sputtered and died does not point to the AMM in my experience but sputtered and ran like crap unable to accelerate would.
This is an extremely common problem so a search of the site will help. Recently assisted a young lady who had the same issue and was trying to sell her 1993 in non-running condition because they were telling there were $800-1200 in repairs needed. After we swapped parts between my 1990 and her car for about an hour, we narrowed it down to the Ignition power stage which cost her $55 shipped and an hour.
If you are unwilling to check these things yourself, please do yourself the favor of not taking it to corner garage unless you regularly see 70's and 80' European iron out front.
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posted by
someone claiming to be hawkone115
on
Wed Jan 30 07:16 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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1986 240 dl believe it is the 230 4 cylinder gas non- turbo. I did find a patially broken vaccum hose at the fpr I cut the hose. I also sniffed ot a havev a faint gas odor. I drove it after repacing it, butbi still have a miss/jerk between 2/3 3/4 gear shift otherwise it runs fine. I replace the wire harness months ago with the aftermarket Dave sells. I see a fpr sells anywhere from 40-300 dollars, what a price spread! Anyway totest the fpr without disconnecting the fuel lines?
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Odd that it is doing it between gears.
I think of failing motor or transmission mount(s).
That may not apply if you are also running rich.
Then I think Throttle Position Sensor but do not know if that applies to a 1986.
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TPS does only two things on most 240's...turn the idle program on and indicates WOT. Everything in between is dead space. I think LH3.1 is different and of course the K-jet cars are a whole different animal but LH2.0-2.4 do not use it for very much.
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You are correct ... if the TPS is working properly.
I'm just guessing as to the stumble between gears when I assume the throttle is released.
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The fuel pressure regulator dies when the diaphram leaks. Fuel gets sucked into the vacuum line and then on into the engine. Typically the vacuum line smells like fuel or in some cases has liquid fuel in it.
It only misses when shifting ? Does the motor rock back and forth a lot ? Do you have a loose wire and or battery cable ? Are the low voltage leads to the distributor cracked ? How do the plugs look ? Has the engine been tuned up recently ? Plugs wires, cleaned idle air control, etc ?
Greg
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Hand vac pump...pump it up and and see if it holds vacuum or leaks down. Not sure why you are looking at the fuel pressure regulator as the car will usually still run, though badly, even if it is failed
86 might have the two "ice cube" relays for the fuel system and they pretty much never fail. Someone else will have to chime in for sure as I have never had a 240 from that era.
Hall sensor and hall sensor wiring could be an issue unless your car is a late '86 when I thin they went to a crank position sensor.
Still...fuses are a very common reason for a no fuel or no spark situation on these cars.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Hawkone115
on
Wed Jan 30 16:02 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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I drove car today about 30 miles. Before I took off today I remove all four spark plugs. All were dry. I left the vehicle overnight in the garage, so I do not know if that made a difference. I cannot for the life of me replicate the problem my wife had with it, nor the miss I felt last night. The only things I did today was regap the plugs because after I put a gauge on them they were at .045-.050 Owners manual says betwenn .024-.028 quite a large difference but I think not enough to make the stalling issueas it never had before last night.
The other issue I corrected was cutting and reinstalling the vaccum hose on the fpr last night. I took the hose off the fpr today to try and replicate the stall or puttering out, I drove for about 3-4 miles and it made no difference on the performance of the vehicle either on or off the fpr. ( strange). I checked the distributor cap (with stronger eye glasses ahem) and saw nothing except some carbon tracking on the electrodes I scrapped off. Otherwise this vehicle is running I think a little better since I adjusted spark plug gap, not the usual start up with engine turning over a few times. It started instantly today in a cold garage. I am not folled however because I know this gremlin may return. Just thought I would provide my info to see if I could get some additional input. In unrelated news Since the OD Guru has overhauled my OD unit my gas mileage is running between 28-32 per gallon on the highway!
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Are the plugs old, may need to be replaced?
Replace all vacuum lines with new hose.
Dan
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posted by
someone claiming to be hawkone115
on
Wed Jan 30 08:47 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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i believe it has a crank sensor as I forgot to hook it up when i replaced wire harness several momths ago. Sorry i have three threads for same issue going on here. Someone suggested checking the fpr and that is where I found split vaccum line. i posted pic in gallery last night. i cut hose and replaced it. I have not managed to duplicate the issue my wife but notice the vehicle sputters the comes back to life. just don'twant to spend small fortune on partschasing down a problem lol,
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