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Had daughter's 92 740 aligned at local 'Brakes Only' shop. They charged $80, said they needed some 'kit' to do the alignment correctly and the car still drifts off to the left at steady speed (40 mph) when the steering wheel is let go.
I have never heard of a 'kit' for RWD Volvo alignment. What should I do?
Thanks,
el raidman
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Have you checked for spring sag? That's endemic on these cars and causes pulling, often to the right but not always.
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See the 700/900 "FAQ" at the menu bar top screen left side.
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Checking spring sag: It is impossible to check spring sag if you don't know what the original height was, no is data available including specifications in TP6003201. Both springs or one spring sagging would affect caster but all one can do is compare the two sides and make sure they are the same.
I'll do a simple calculation to find out how much, a sagging spring or springs would affect the caster angle. I am thinking height of the strut attachment to the ground and then the distance between the front and rear tires at ground level.
Tom
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Apparently my 740 was hit on the right side before I purchased it (I am the third owner), It always pulled to the right. I will probably get a lot of flack for this but to remedy this somewhat I drilled out the two top strut mounting holes to the rear ( the holes now resemble a race track patteren)and pulled the top of the strut rearwards , resulting in the wheel moving forward. The front washer had to be shaved a bit, resembling a D to aid in adjusting. the pull though not completely gone is greatly reduced and now livable
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Just talked to son-in-law in Houston. At Goodyear, they checked the previous alignment and said that the 92 745 needs longer control arms. I have heard of this solution, but it is expensive if one uses new parts. However, I have access to 2 PNP junkyards here in the Austin area. If I can find a later model 940 to remove the control arms, would they be long enough? I guess I will have to take the radius rod also. FCP has control arms that are supposed to be an upgrade to OEM, but I have no idea how long they are.
Thanks for any suggestions.
el Raidman
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You do not need 'longer control arms'. There are none. There are, longer 'control arm Stays', which are the diagonal arms. These are two different parts. FCP has had some adjustable ones, which some say may be weaker. Not sure on that one.
But, the statement that 92 needs longer ones is incorrect. Some 7/9 May need longer ones, but the later 9 car will not necessarily have them.
Some simply use a washer behind the rear conical bushing.
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So what's broken or damaged to cause this?
Is this a "less expensive" fix for a larger problem?
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I don't know what could be broken. I replaced the front shock inserts (with KYB) as per the FAQ instructions, and put in new outer tie rod ends. After the car was taken to a Goodyear shop, it drives a little better. I have read that placing a washer behind the bushing on the front control arm stay (=radius rod?) to make it extend a few mm further out will solve the problem. Then, at this longer stay, the alignment can be properly done.
Any body with experience in this, please let me know.
el raidman
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No way to tell without numbers and/or without seeing the car. Do you have the printout from the alignment?
Are the tires in good and even condition? Are the wheels straight? Slight bends can throw off the figures and subsequent adjustments; did they check?
Has the car ever been damaged? Maybe the crossmember hit a curb, that'd possibly make a difference.
Too many shops rely on fancy machines, but the tech doesn't have sufficient knowledge to compensate for issues, or even to recognize them.
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Thanks! But there is already a washer in place. I guess you mean another flat washer between the end of the stay and the present rear washer? Would that also mean that I need to get a longer front bolt?
el raidman
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"I guess you mean another flat washer between the end of the stay and the present rear washer?"
Maybe that would work, I'd have to look. But is that what is wrong with the car? I would think caster, camber and toe-in can all have affects causing pulling. Plus as Steve says, spring sag/uneven spring sag.
For anyone getting a front end alignment it is imperative that it is done at a Volvo Independent shop where you have a chance of getting a proper alignment or at a shop that has a very positive reputation. Face to face with the mechanic, not with the desk clerk: First talk to the person doing the alignment and tell him that you just replaced the struts or the car is pulling or you are concerned with tire wear, whatever. You have to get a printout or a hand written sheet showing the readings, before and after.
The only thing most shops want to do is align the TOE-IN via the tie rods. This is simple. You need the tires to "toe in" slightly, pigeon-toed, to keep the car from wandering.
CASTER angle keeps the car going straight and self-centers the steering wheel. This is adjustable, a little with a longer or shorter control arm support rod, the thingy with the cone bushing that wears out.
Camber angle does lots of stuff but not limited to contact patch and grip while cornering. Adjustable via rotating the top strut mounting plate. Drilling/elongating the front mounting bolt hole is required unless the car already has slots.
Everything is equal on both sides i.e. there is no compensation for normal road crown which has little affect on you car's handling/steering/pulling with a good alignment.
From an earlier post:
My book covers 700/900s 1982 to 960s s UP TO AND INCLUDING 1994]. All 700 and 900 cars caster spec is 5.5 +/- 1 deg. Turbo only 700/900 with factory installed 16" wheels is 4.5 +/- 1 deg and I don't know why. Nothing should affect caster that I know of except damage to the car, which my son had. It was someone that did a test drive before he bought it that did a minor hood damage destroyed the right front tire. Car was reduced in price with a new wheel and tire installed.
The person I have been going to for 20 years is a 240 owner. My son's 95 944T had to get a strut arm to correct the caster angle. Cost was about $100 for the arm about 8 years ago.
Standard length is 15.37", short is 15.16" and lessens the angle by .8 deg, long is 15.59" and increases caster angle by .8 deg.
If the top strut bearing is turned around the wrong way the caster will increase caster +3 deg.
I have had as many bad alignments on my American Ford and GM cars as good ones. I would not trust your alignment shop's readings. Any Volvo indies nearby?
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son-in-law took the 745 to Goodyear in Houston. They were of course puzzled and even after several attempts could not improve the alignment. Will take the car to an Indie Volvo shop here in Austin next month. I have gotten advice here in RWD forum to add a washer behind the bushing to make the control arm stay a little longer. I will add the washers (I found one that fits in my Volvo parts collection), then take the car to a get another alignment. I'm hoping for a 'santo remedio'.
Thanks for the help.
el Raidman
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How is this accomplished? I'll check the FAQ's, as I remember something about spring sag. If the springs are sagging,(car has over 200,000 miles),then would you suggest new springs (mucho $$$)or some low milage 740,940 springs from the Pick N Pull?
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Easy measurement per FAQ section in Wheels and Tires. All you probably need to do is change the rear springs.
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See the 700/900 "FAQ" at the menu bar top screen left side.
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The REAR springs? Not the front? I hope so, since it will be easier to do.
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I would rotate tires and double check everything in the front and rear supensions (including all bushings) first before even considering the springs. In my experience Volvo springs last a long time.
How many miles on the car?
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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, sold - 90 244 DL 300k
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daughter just drove back to Houston...kept hand on wheel,everything OK. 209,000 miles on car. Car was bought with repair (different painted fender as clue on front driver's side), but never had problems with alignment before this. Next weekend, when she returns to Austin, I will rotate tires and check suspension bushings, even though I changed the radius rod conical bushings with OEM 3 years ago.
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A slight 'pull' to the right was standard procedure for many years. Road camber, drifting away from oncoming traffic, etc. The car should not pull to the left. Either take it back or try rotating the tires. You may have a tire with belts that are separating ( somewhat unlikely these days).
Greg
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so pulling to the left is even more dangerous....will try rotating the tires next. Thanks for the help.
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Were the struts worked on? Those strut mounts that attach just under the hood on the fender wells. They have to be put back on just like they were taken off. That will also throw your alignment off.
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yes, I replaced the front shock inserts on both sides. I marked the tops of the struts and replaced them as close as I could. I figured this 'professional' alignment shop would loosen up the 2 mounting bolts and move the whole strut into alignment, then tighten them up. Apparently these bozos are not familiar with FWD Volvos. I had a Mexican shop use a string from the back tires to the front, $20 and NO PROBLEMAS!!! I'm 350 miles away from that shop now. Sigh.
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"Apparently these bozos are not familiar with FWD Volvos." Huh? A 7-series is RWD.
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Major OOOPS (like our infamous governor,Ricky P.)....I was writing while still under the medications for last Tuesday's knee surgery. RWD forevah!!!!
I have an update on the alignment..will post further down.
el Raidman
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Just wanted to make sure you were talking about 740 and not a V70. I knew you knew the difference but we all have senior moments no matter what our age.
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Never heard of a kit. What type of alignment machine? Did you get a printout of the specs? I would take it back and take the mechanic out for a test drive to show him.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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We had something like this issue on my daughter's 940 (same front suspension). Reportedly the caster angle on the right side was off a fair bit and the only correction was a longer lower control arm. (Replacing the bushings made no difference). The alignment shop was quite thorough and after a test drive the head guy said the car still "leads" to the right a little. Apparently Volvo do/did stock two or three lengths of control arms for caster adjustment...or maybe that's urban legend?
As the tendency to wander right with hands off the wheel was very slight and the expense to correct it considerable, it has been lived with for many years now with no apparent tire wear abnormality.
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Son's XC70, daughter's 940, my 81 and 83 240's, 89 745 (V8) and S90. Also '77 MGB and some old motorcycles
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Apparently Volvo do/did stock two or three lengths of control arms for caster adjustment...or maybe that's urban legend?
Bob, this probably relates to the different available (?) lengths of Control Arm Stays, i.e. the "radius rods that angle back from the bottom of the control arm. I think these would mainly affect caster.
The Volvo Parts Web Store lists 3 different Control Arm Stays. I don't have any info on length selection criteria except for the reference to "brake vibrations for the 388.5 mm rod.
Standard length=390.5 mm $62.62 3530789
388.5 mm Service version for cars with brake vibrations. $53.68 6819079
Not standard equipment, service alternative.
385 mm $62.62 3530790
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Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Thanks for the correction, Bruce. I see with some embarrassment that the OP in his latest post is now repeating my misnomer and referring to longer control arms instead of the "stays".
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Bob: Son's XC70, daughter's 940, my 81 and 83 240's, 89 745 (V8) and S90. Also '77 MGB and some old motorcycles
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