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I also looked through the bentley wiring diagrams. I found a parts car that didn't have A/C or power windows. I quickly bought the manual window regulators and the Non A/C Power Steering bracket. I already removed every power window item including the relay, the black ground wire, the brown wire to fuse 10 and the blue/yellow wire to fuse 12. I want to do the same thing with the A/C. I already removed the Compressor, Condenser, Drier, Evaporator, hoses, metal pipe. The A/C relay is the problem. I know it has a blue/yellow wire that runs to fuse 12 but its also interconnected to the rear window defroster switch for some reason and has a red/white wire that runs to the fan switch. I know that if its not broke dont fix it but I want to remove the electrical parts/wiring that i never intend on using. I also removed the heated seat parts/wiring. Is it possible to remove the rest and still have use of the fan and rear defroster?
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If you want to preserve your rear window defroster, you need to leave the blue/yellow wiring intact from fuse 12. Just disconnect the blue yellow from the AC and the windows.
Also, don't worry about the red/white wire -- just disconnect it. That one supplies fuse 12 power to the blower low speed when the AC is on to prevent evap freeze up. You don't need it sans AC.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Dad: Someone who hopes his sons will turn out to be just like him, and who is afraid his daughters will meet someone who did.
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i've noticed on this site that you know the most about these cars. that cleared alot up. the reverse lights send a blue/yellow to fuse 12 and there was a connector to disconnect the blue/yellow for the a/c. theres also a brown wire that is in a red plastic case and another wire comes out and goes to the rear defroster. it looks like the case can be opened but if i remove the brown a/c wire will that affect the defroster? thank you -drew
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Hi Drew,
I also have an '89, and in the course of ownership, removed the AC thermostatic control and replaced its on/off function with a switch. During that procedure, I took a few pictures, so you may be able to see what you are speaking of in one of them: http://cleanflametrap.com/ac.html
My best guess at what you are talking about is the "brown" wire is actually a faded black wire, and the "red case" is the part number ID sleeve used to mark harnesses. That the defroster and AC relay might share a ground in the harness seems plausible. The ground might just provide the path for the defroster switch light. Maybe that is the brown wire you are looking at?
I agree, the systems should separate cleanly, and not require you cut wires. But I don't know this to be fact. If my pics don't help, maybe you could break out your camera, and get some clearly focused shots of the wiring?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A man will pay $20 for a $10 item he needs. A woman will pay $10 for a $20 item that she doesn't need.
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Hi Art
The defroster still works so I guess I didn't remove anything i shouldn't have. I dont have a digital camera so I couldn't take any pictures. I have another electrical question since we have the same car. I bought an electric fan from a 1996 960. I cut the shroud to fit over my radiator. Its a two speed fan that also has a relay which I grabbed. The relay that goes with the fan has a power in wire which comes from the battery which I'm going to use an inline 30-40 amp fuse. Then it has two outputs, green wire is low speed to fan and red is high speed to fan but the problem is the inputs. They are male bullet connectors and the female connectors that came with it fit snugly but there only about 18-22 gauge wire. I tried female bullet connectors from autozone and they dont stay on the male connector. I want to run each input which I believe is just grounding the relay for either speed to two toggle switches at the bottom terminal of the switch then run a wire from the top terminal to a good ground point. that way I can flip the fan on low or high speed by flippin a switch. But if I cant find bullet connectors to fit the inputs with 10-12 gauge wire I wont be able to hook it up that way. BUT I Also have two 50amp max relays which are black that I grabbed. They each have 30, 87, 86, and 85. I could run two wires from the positive battery terminal with inline fuses going to 30 of each relay then 87 of each relay going to low speed and high speed, and 86 would be grounding the relay which again I would use two toggle switches. Which route would you take? Would you just replace the thermo clutch fan? Will the 80amp alternator be able to keep up with the fan? Thanks, Drew
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I cannot answer all your questions as well as Art will. I have never added a fan even though I have one to put on my 86. I think it might be nice, if and when, I go crazy and travel where it gets really hot!
I can say the you are planing to use too large of fuses and relays for the job. The fan cannot possibly use that much power to move the air. Just study the wires supplied on the fan, as they are a good hint, to what the manufacturer built it to draw safely.
You want to "fuse" any circuit to the smallest piece of wiring used in that circuit.
It is the smallest longest wire that will burn first. It is the "standard" rule, no thumbs involved. (:) If done correctly, if any wire does burn, it will be inside the motor and safely contained.
Relays are not as crucial. Just make sure they are about thirty percent larger than the maximum load drawn by the load.
I do not know what the standard is but its my rule of thumb I made up and seems to work.
Like, I think a 15 ampere relay is very common one to find and to use on this application. I expect it is not too much different than a cars fog lamps, depending how big they are!
I would hook up the fan to a battery using the highest speed setting with an ampere meter in series to see what it draws. Then go with supply wiring one or more gages higher than the amperage drawn. This will allow for voltage drop due to relay/switch contacts, connectors and circuit distance.
Of course there is always overkill, which got me started in this post to begin with.
Phil
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Art is the electrical systems guru without a doubt!
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"Is it possible to remove the rest and still have use of the fan and rear defroster?"
Yes. The A/C is an add on. So it should also be a "take off". I've pulled the a/c from an '89. I don't recall there being anything complicated. The thick wire may need repositioning?
The wiring diagrams should show without a/c and in a separate section show the a/c wiring and where it hooks up to the rest of the base electrical system.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.
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Unrelated, but what year of car did you pull the no AC PS bracket from? The reason I ask is that I have yet to see a car from the factory with the remote reservoir PS pump and no AC. This probably means the bracket you got was for a B23/B21 and likely will not work on your car without modification.
I do not remember there being a wire as you described but it has been a long time since I have 90's dash apart. I thought all the wire to the relay were solid green.
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I have a few b230f without ac (Canadian) and they have the remote ps tank,so
the bracket exists.I find the manual window cranks to be less durable than
electrics(humans are rough and stong) I have never had mechanical issues with
the electric lifts and broken wires are an easy fix
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Rene
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I've got an '84 with no A/C.. so, B23. There is no remote reservoir. Same pump. It's just located down lower where the A/C compressor would otherwise be, but on an adjustable bracket (I think. Haven't looked closely. Maybe it does have the split pulley adjustment system)
Have never seen a newer car such equipped, nor any older than perhaps 1979. And older ones that were sans A/C were also sans P/S..
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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I was looking on ebay one day and saw a 1986 volvo 240 being parted out before he junked it. It was in australia. It had the same pump with separate resovoir and that bracket with three bolt holes that moves the power steering further up to run on the front crankshaft pulley. Also had manual windows. funny thing was the shipping to the US was more than what he charged me for the parts. - drew
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