|
|
|
Hello fellow Brickboard members!
I am writing to you in hopes that you can assist me on my failed smog problem. I have a 1991 Volvo 240 Wagon that recently failed smog quite badly, actually it earned the GROSS POLLUTER award. YEAH!
Well a little about my car, I recently replaced.....everything no not really but I have replace the following with new OEM parts: Idle control valve, Air Mass Meter, O2 sensor, spark plugs, spark plug cables, timing belt, and air filter
I have also replace the whole exhaust system from the Y-pipe back including the Catalytic converter
Since it failed smog before I decided to give her the old Water Torture trick. I put about a can of Seafoam in the intake and another in the gas tank running 91 octane gas. In hopes that this would clean out all the carbon deposits. Well she smoked...a lot and she ran way better. The idle went from about 1200 to 700 and she idles and runs really smooth and quite. I decide to run through that tank of gas with the Seafoam in it then got an oil and oil filter change and tried to smog her again.
Here are the results:
15MPH TEST
RPM-1669
CO2%-13.2
O2%-1.4
HC- MAX:116 MEAS:181
CO%- MAX:0.74 MEAS:0.75
NO(PPM)- MAX:791 MEAS:2540
25MPH TEST
RPM-2636
CO2%-14.8
O2%-0.0
HC- MAX:91 MEAS:55
CO%- MAX:0.62 MEAS:0.59
NO(PPM)- MAX:730 MEAS:825
So there are the results. I am hoping you guys can help me decipher what she might be doing wrong. I know the high NO is usually caused by high combustion chamber temperature, possible indicating a lean condition. I have been checking for vacuum leaks with no luck. I was also thinking could it be due to off timing? I replace the belt and ensured that all the timing marks were aligned but could the camshaft and intermediate shaft be aligned with the indicators but be off in timing if that makes sense. For better indication the timing marks are all aligned but the camshaft sprocket does not have cylinder 1 at TDC. My question I guess would be if all the marks line up are all the cylinders and distributors correctly lined up?
I would appreciate any help you guys would be able to give me, as I only have 3 more days until I need her to pass smog. Thanks! have a great day!
Garrett
|
|
-
-
|
|
|
Thanks Will for the info. I got a Bosch universal O2 sensor, so I had to splice the 3 wires to the wires of the O2 sensor harness. When I put it on I checked for sweeps and it was good but I have not checked it recently. I will check that out today (If it stops raining). I am also going to replace all of my vacuum lines, due to the fact that some of them are still the original and after 20 years those hoses can get pretty brittle. I will keep you guys updated on the progress. Thanks for all your help!
Garrett
|
|
-
|
|
|
I just read through all the posts.
Normally NOx that high is caused by an intake leak or lean condition somewhere - Nobody's mentioned exhaust leaks. Have you checked for them?
Also, it is going to be important to let the station know that it's not a CA car. Without an EGR setup, your numbers will probably be higher.
I agree with the sentiment that cheating through the test will only cause more problems later.
As for the timing being off, the spark timing is controlled by the ECU and non-adjustable. The mechanical timing is controlled by the timing belt, crank, and camshaft, and people notice big changes in drivability with even one tooth difference on the cam.
The harmonic balancer on newer cars (since the early 80's AFAIK) can separate so that your spark timing marks move around. I'm not sure if the mechanical timing marks also move, but it would be way off and would change frequently.
Long story short, I don't think the mechanical timing is a problem.
Out of curiousity, what type of O2 sensor did you replace your with? Did you check that it sweeps the right range and sweeps quickly? Was it a universal type? If so, did you splice or solder the leads on?
Good Luck!
|
|
-
|
|
|
I didn't read you entire post but had my own issues with emissions test.
If you haven't found it yet go to:
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1481789/220/240/260/280/recap_emissions_failure_repairs_iac_idle_rpm_mpg_pcv.html
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'm in Washington, and all of my Volvo's sail through fine. I was looking to try and better understand the limits.
Near as I can see, 1981-1993 vehicles are all Tier 0. Tonight, I'll look at a recent test from my '87 245, and see what the allowable limits were. Washington would have followed Federal in 1987, so I think it would be the same. This might give an indication whether your car is doing acceptable for a 49 state version or not.
Roger
'95 854T 259k miles
'93 945T 218k miles
'87 245 M47 299,500+ miles and watching carefully...
|
|
-
|
|
|
Last time I had my 1987 245 smogged in TX, the low speed limit for Nox was 1227 ppm and the high speed limit was 1121 ppm. The limits you are being tested to seem kinda tight. Not sure if it CA requirements or the difference in the limits between 87 and 91.
Charles
Mukilteo, WA (formerly Houston, TX)
|
|
-
|
|
|
I am looking at the Washington test report, and it doesn't test for NOx.
I have the same limits for my '87 245 and my '93 945T, which are:
Cruise
HC 150ppm
CO <1%
CO+CO2 >6%
O2% N/A
Idle
HC 220ppm
CO <1.2%
CO+CO2 >6%
O2% N/A
These numbers are different than the EPA, which specifies in grams per mile (g/mi). Here is the EPA page:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/standards/light-duty/tiers0-1-ldstds.htm
This includes NOx of 1.0 g/mi.
Our cars count as "Light Duty Vehicles", which seems to cover all cars up to 8,500 lbs.
I'm trying to find a reference for the California emissions standards, but haven't found it yet.
Taking another look at your numbers, I see the HC's are over limit, too. This is unburned fuel. With CO2 high, and O2 low or at zero, that suggests the car is running very rich. That could be from a number of reasons. Some that come to mind are:
- computer thinks engine is too cold (bad temp sensor or wire)
- fuel pressure too high (FPR not controlling properly)
...and many other reasons.
Hopefully this gives you something to go with.
Roger
'95 854T
'93 945T
'87 245
I think the other contributor was correct that they may be using incorrect
|
|
-
|
|
|
"the timing marks are all aligned but the camshaft sprocket does not have cylinder 1 at TDC. My question I guess would be if all the marks line up are all the cylinders and distributors correctly lined up? "
This is far from clear to me. Are the marks lined up, or not?
What does 'the camshaft sprocket does not have cyl1 at TDC' mean exactly?
|
|
-
|
|
|
As suggested in a past thread, try E85.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Just went through this with my own car, and all of my "research" (Google searching) indicated that more ethanol in the fuel would lower HC and CO, but would do nothing to NO, or worse, raise the NO levels.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hey Trev, I appreciate your suggestion.
I have however been hesitant on running E85 for the simple fact that I heard it can damage seals and injectors.
Do you know if there is any truth to this? Have you tried E85?
Thanks,
Garrett
|
|
-
|
|
|
As explained before, the use of the E85 is temporary, just to achieve the pass. After which you go back to regular.
Ie. Drain the tank. Put in a couple of gallons of E85. Take the test. Fill-up with regular after the test.
Haven't used E85 as it isn't available in Brampton, Ont. However alcohol is.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
|
|
-
|
|
|
There is one regular poster who has been using E85 in his 240 for a while and expressed no ill effects. It is only one data point but as I understand it, ethanol more often cause problems with natural rubber of which our fuel components should have none.
That being said, E85 will clean the bejesus out of everything it touches so fuel filter/screen clogs are common even though they almost never happen with a 240 in normal use.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I am concerned of the computer tripping the check engine light because of the E85, which would be an automatic failure during smog check
|
|
-
|
|
|
Won't say it is not a risk, but it would be pretty low on my risk of concerns.
My main concern is that E85...if it helps you pass with no other repairs...is just masking a larger problem.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hello, I apologize for not clarifying but yes I did ensure the car was thoroughly warned up before the test. I drove it on the freeway for about 25 minutes and let it idle for about 10 minutes while the car ahead of me finished.
Unfortunately my car is not a native California car so it is not equipped with an EGR valve.
All the repair were done about 5 months ago including the exhaust. The exhaust kit was from IPD and the catalytic converter was an aftermarket magnaflow I believe.
Can anyone clarify more about the timing and the pin? I believe that the timing on the 89 and newer are controlled by the ECU, however there has to be some kind of initial manual setting for it to start at, I would think.
|
|
-
|
|
|
"...Unfortunately my car is not a native California car so it is not equipped with an EGR valve..."
Since you've got a 49-state car, I don't suppose you're being held to a more stringent standard than that which the car was designed too??? I'm not sure how much difference there would be if anything. You may ask the person that's running the inspection station just to be sure. It's possible they aren't aware of the fact that it's a non-CA car.
I see that you came a lot closer to passing the 25MPH (higher RPM) than the 15 MPH. Will they allow you to run it in a lower gear for the 15 MPH test? Also, try running the heater full blast during the test to help keep the head temp lower. Maybe try a cooler thermostadt also.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Chris's thermostat suggestion brings up a good point - have you bypassed your temp gauge so that you can see if you are running hot? If not, a sub-par cooling system could be raising engine temps enough to cause high NO.
|
|
-
|
|
|
No codes come up on the OBD unit, they both show 1-1-1.
As far as valve lash, not sure what that is or how to check it and have not checked compression yet.
|
|
-
|
|
|
California recently passed a law stating that older cars no longer had to meet California's strict emissions regulations they just have to meet the original emissions stated by the car manufacturer at time of production.
|
|
-
|
|
What years are included as my Volvos have all been subject to the new tighter standards and my newest is a 1990.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I apologize I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote that. Now that I read it it doesn't even make sense to me!
From my understanding the camshaft sprocket coincides with the piston movement and the intermediate shaft coincides with the distributor movement. When I installed the belt I ensures that all the marks lined up with the lines on the belt. However I am not sure if there is a particular pattern for the sprocket movement.
For example every time the camshaft sprocket rotates one complete turn does cylinder 1 complete its movement then for the the 2nd rotation does cylinder 2 conplete its movement and so on until completing the 4th rotation and the start back at cylinder 1?
Same question for the intermediate shaft as it is rotating the distributor does 1 rotation mean that it strikes the charge for cylinder 1 and so on?
Or is it as simple as if all the line on the belt match up with the lines on the gears and sprockets then your good to go.
Or do you have to ensure that cylinder 1 is at TDC before you line the marks up?
|
|
-
|
|
|
Two rotations of the crank equals one rotation of cam and idler.
Line up the crank with the metal mark. That will give TDC for cylinder 1. This is a 4 stroke engine so TDC occurs twice in each cycle.
Line up cam with mark on cam cover. Line up idler with mark on rear timing belt plate.
If idler mark is hard to see, line up distributor rotor with faint scribe on distributor rim. This will give you firing at TDC. Since you have a '91, the ECU will determine the timing advance.
Put the belt on, keeping the marks in position. The marks on the timing belt are not necessary. Rotate the engine a few times to see if the marks remain lined up.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hello,
Was the car fully warmed up when the test was done?
In case you did not notice, you also failed on HC and CO during the 15 mph test.
You probably have more than 1 problem.
What is the condition of the engine, IE what is the compression, have you checked the valve lash?
Have you checked the operation of the EGR system?
Have you checked to see if there are any codes stored?
Have you removed the air intake hose between the MAF and the intake manifold and inspected for holes on the underside?
It is possible to cause problems with timing if you removed the pulley that drives the distributor to change the seal and you did not make sure the pin was properly aligned to the gear upon re-installation.
That pin can be pushed in quite easily if you did not pay attention and then the gear might not have been timed correctly.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
|
|
-
|
|
|
When did you replace your cat, and with what? The guy who inspects my cars says he sees it all the time: aftermarket cats only last about two years. Just faced it myself, and sure enough, my aftermarket cat was the problem.
If you are not showing any codes on the OBD, and the car is running well, I would suspect the catalytic converter. Unfortunately, late model 240s have no simple way to retard the timing manually, or that would probably help you pass.
Make sure the car is thoroughly warmed up before testing. To my understanding, you want the engine to be nice and cool so high combustion chamber temps do not create more NO, and you want the catalytic converter to be nice and hot so the catalyst can do its work. That means, make sure your cooling system is in good shape, and that your exhaust has had plenty of time to heat up.
Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
