posted by
someone claiming to be John McPhail
on
Tue Oct 2 14:42 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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OK, I need another car like I need a hole in my head, but a local guy has a '71 1800E that is so clean you could eat off of it. He's also put a ton of new parts into the car over the past two years - brakes, shocks, tires, front end, electrical, exhaust, water pump, etc.
I haven't had an opportunity to drive it, yet - our schedules keep conflicting.
This car has a B20E (130hp) mated to the old Borg Warner 35 slushbox. A few questions:
1. I have heard that the BW-35 is unreliable, and will last maybe 75,000 miles if you are lucky and drive like Grandmother. Is this true?
2. How slow will this thing be? I've driven a couple of 240's with automatic transmission (AW-70). Noticeable slower than an M46/M47 car, but not intolerable by any means.
3. Is it actually drivable at "modern" highway speeds, e.g. 75-80mph? My understanding is that 3rd gear is a 1.1:1 ratio, basically equivalent to blasting down the highway in 4th gear on an M46/M47.
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Many, many years ago I bought a '72 1800E with an automatic trans.
1) Reliability: I don't think I *abused* it, but I did do a fair amount of full throttle acceleration runs in it. (Ahem, point #2, you're not going to feel like doing that many part throttle starts, heh). It had adequate fluid in it, but after about 4 months it started slurring the 1/2 shifts. And in about a month was slipping fairly readily. I enthusiastically swapped it for an M41 (which wasn't as hard to do back then, parts were easier to track down). This fairly closely mirrored the life I got out of my '72 145E that also had an automatic. It lasted about 6 months, started slipping on shifts. I put an M40 in that.
2) Slow, sluggish, lethargic. It's just not a fun combination. The D cam wants to rev some, the BW doesn't let it unless you monkey around with the shifter constantly. Both the 1800E and the 145E were *much* more fun to drive once manuals had been swapped into them.
3) I forget how high they revved on the highway. Most of my driving on both cars took place with the manual. and the M41 was *much* better than the M40 in that regards. With the 3.9 rear end, it was *very* relaxed in the 1800E. I really can't recall what the revs were like with the automatics. back then, the dreaded 55 mph national speed limit was in effect, going faster meant severe danger to wallet. I can say that trying to drive my PV (only push rod Volvo I have now) in 4th vs. OD at 75 - 80 mph freeway speeds is NOT PLEASANT. At all. Definitely need that OD to keep the revs down. Maybe tghe motor doesn't mind, but I sure do. It just sounds abusive.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again... a D-cam B20 with the BW35 automatic is possibly the worst engine/transmission combo Volvo ever built. Ever.
Take the same car with an M41 in it: throw away 1st gear, throw away the OD, add some clutch slippage... Voila! BW35!
Nothing but bad news IMO. And BTW, my opinions are not based on hearsay... I've owned a '73 ES with BW35 for the past 32 years. :)
--
Gary L - 142E ITB race car, 73 1800ES
BlueBrick Racing Website
YouTube Racing Videos
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Phil's reply is good and thorough. So only consider this a second opinion.
1) The BW-35 is fine if it's in good order. My experience is that if they are abused, they fail pretty quick. See reply to Q #2
2) They need not be that slow. If you shift 'em manually and let the engine rev, they can be pretty speedy! And you don't have that clutch/shift momentum loss. See reply to Q #1
3) Sure, the engine is fine with revs. And for that matter, revs are pretty high even with a M41.
*disclaimer: The above insights are based on experience from someone who got a B20/BW35 145s that worked fine at 117k miles. Said person managed to kill the automatic and engine over the course of a couple weeks of abusive driving.
Again, as Phil said, it's not a deal breaker. You can convert later, and if the car is otherwise pristine, well then... it's a good car. And if your engine is good, it won't be harmed like the aforementioned fellow with insights experienced. B20E can take it. And it's a hell of a lot easier to deal with an automatic than it is to deal with a rust bucket...
Price being right, of course....
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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No experience with the B20/BW35/1800 combo but...
My favorite of all my past Volvos is still my 1979 B21/BW55 wagon. This engine had maybe 100 HP when new and was far from it by the time I got the car. The car was quick 30-50mph, and slow everywhere else but it would cruise at 80 mph all day long, tow a 2500 lb trailer and had well over 300K miles on it with the tranny only replaced once due to coolant contamination.
In short, it will be a slower car but as George Down told me when was looking for 210/122 with a perfect body but did not care about the mechanical condition...it is a lot easier to find and fix mechanical issues on these cars than to fix a rotted out hulk of mostly Volvo.
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Another 2 cents worth -- from someone who's owned and serviced many BW35 equipped cars. Some cars are real slow -- some are acceptably quick. I think they are very sensitive to being fully warmed up and also to having the fuel mixture just right. They don't have the part throttle downshift capability like the 55 and 70/71 models but they can be manually shifted--one trick--start in L -- shift to D to make the shift to 2nd and then immediately put the shifter back to L -- it will hold 2nd gear--good for city driving. As others have noted--a good body is much harder to find then having mechanical issues to fix or change. -- Dave
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1) Maybe not so unreliable if maintained properly. The BW35 was used in many cars of that era that produce much higher torque than a B20E.
2) Painfully slow. Much more difference than between the M46 and AW70. Much.
3) Automatic 1800s had taller gears to partially compensate for the lack of OD (3.91 vs. 4.30), but 70 MPH is still 3650 RPM with stock size tires.
If I liked everything else about the car and the price was right, BW35 wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker. I've converted one to M41, and it's very much doable. I'm in the process of converting another to AW71L, both with appropriate rear end gear changes. I do have one customer who is perfectly happy with his BW35 1800E, but he's in no hurry, and the local speed limits are 55 MPH, and that only on a few stretches of highway. He never ventures out on the interstate. So, depends partially how you intend to use the car.
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