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I recently installed my rack from Jorgen, new tie rod ends, and new lower U joint (steering)- All aligned.
Symptoms-
- the wheel is ~5degrees off at rest
- there is a "clunk" on the passenger side of the car on irregular roads
- at 40mph+ on a straight flat road the car steers back and forth several degrees rapdily (swerves)- holds a straight line
- at higher speed the car swerves violently beyond control of holding the wheel.
I've looked at it, and a mechanic looked at it, and everything is tight-
I drove it yesterday and had nightmares about it
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Whoa!!! You need to step back and review EVERYTHING. What you describe are radically bad symptoms. Did you have these conditions before the new rack? -- the clunk, etc. Disregarding everything else--your first concern regarding the offset wheel----the rack needs to be centered as far as turns lock to lock first--then you can pull the steering wheel (easy on a Volvo) to center it relative to the centered rack--now the tie rods can be adjusted for correct toe (after the camber is set). This procedure will be the LAST thing you do after--
Finding the source of the clunk and any other worn parts - 240 ball joints need to be checked by squeezing them as well as prying--how about the large A-arm bushings (the front small ones almost never wear out)--strut mounts, etc.
You need to check all the bushings in the rear too. Get those things straightened out--then you can do the alignment. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to swap tires with another car if any symptoms persist. -- Dave
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Dave,
I'm not understanding how to "pull" the wheel to center once I have the rack centered? I understand centering the rack involves adjusting the position until the wheel turns an equal distance in either direction? then wouldn't this change once I re-positioned the wheel? I'm totally lost here on this process, and don't see anything helpful in my repair book
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The steering wheel is fitted to splines at the top of the steering shaft. There is no "index" to mount the wheel on the shaft in only one postion--it can be mounted in as many positions as there are splines. You also have splines at the two flex joints in the steering shaft in the engine compartment--so there is the possibility of slight variation from car to car. With the steering rack itself centered the position of the steering wheel may not be perfectly centered--it may take moving it one or more splines--or--if it is off by less than one spline's worth the choice then is to leave it as is on the shaft and center it by fudging a little at the tie rods--the rack will then be slightly off center but the small amount will not affect performance in any way. If your car is late enough to have an airbag, removing the wheel will require following a procedure to preserve the airbag works (disconnect the battery before doing anything with an airbag equipped car's steering shaft/wheel). I've never had a wheel off an airbag equipped car so I can't describe the procedure -- you'll find that in the repair books. On a non-airbag car all that needs to be done to remove the wheel is lift off the horn pad--loosen the nut holding the wheel leaving it on the shaft a few turns--grasp the wheel at opposite sides and using a fair amount of muscle and a side to side alternating pull motion the wheel will pop off the shaft---the nut you left on the shaft will keep the wheel from springing up and smacking you in the mouth. -- Dave
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83' 245
After an hour or reading articles I just don't understand the centering- are there alignment marks or is it based on equal spacing from tie rod to wheel with straight wheels? should I disconnect the steering column when I re-center the rack? I disconnected and reconnected at the lower u-joint which is indexed at both ends- I've corrected the wheel that way before, that is well understood- Maybe this is too much to learn on a car I need to drive...
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Centering the rack is not a complicated deal--turn the wheel in one direction to the end of its lock--go the other way counting the turns--turn back half that amount--the rack is centered now--adjust the wheel as necessary.-- Dave
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I'm doing this with the rack loose? are the wheels held in place?
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The rack should be bolted down. It doesn't matter if the tie rods are attached to the wheels or not--you only want the steering wheel to be centered relative to the lock to lock centered rack. Once that's done you can then adjust the camber (changing camber will affect toe--so camber comes first). Now with the steering wheel locked in place (shops have a simple tool that sits on the seat and puts pressure on the wheel) but that isn't absolutely necessary as long as you check that the steering wheel has stayed straight while doing the toe adjustment for each side. -- Dave
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So I have the steering column disconnected when I center the wheel? This worries me, because the bottom u-joint, as you, know, only goes on one way- So I assume it is the top one where I make the adjustment- let's hope I can get it off- the bottom one was a bear, I assume the top one has had less exposure, but is corroded too
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No, no -- you don't have to do anything at all with shaft u-joints -- get the rack centered lock to lock and then adjust the steering wheel as necessary. As I said in a previous note--if the steering wheel is a little (less than a splines worth) off center with the rack centered lock to lock you can then set the steering wheel straight (all connected to the rack--which will now be slightly off center) and then set the toe (again--after the camber is set). The little bit the rack is off center will not matter as far as driving. Call me in the evening if this still does not make sense to you---six-three-one 968-8933 -- that's Long Island.-- Dave
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Thank Dave-
I will put another set of wheels on the front and will see how it goes today; interestingly, if I ounce on the front corners of the car the steering wheel rotates freely
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more pieces- the problem seems to be originating from the passenger side where I am getting the "clunk"- tomorrow is saturday
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If it were my car, I'd first double-check the parts Dave suggested. The passenger side ball joint would be "numero uno" on my list. Then make sure the "new" rack isn't defective. A bad ball joint or defective rack are serious safety concerns. The "clunk" could also be the passenger side strut mount or, less likely, the large control arm bushing. Put a large wrench on the top strut nut then try to turn the nut. If it turns the strut mount or spring seat are shot. Look inside the strut for damaged parts. Try to slip a pry bar by the housing and push on the large bushing to check for movement. See if you can peek in there and look for damage or wear.
Post back with your findings. Good luck!
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Saturday gave me some time:
- When the alignment was performed the passenger side tie rod end was not properly tightened, and was not seated- "clunk" was eliminated (that, along w/ very loose lung nuts left me angry that I had used Midas as a Saturday convenience).
- wheel is centered-
- I still experience uncontrollable swerving on uneven road surfaces.
- ball joints on both sides are shot- those should arrive from FCP on tuesday.
How can I know whether the new rack is defective?
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"How can I know whether the new rack is defective? "
I don't believe it has anything to do with it. The installation is suspect.
Actually, more than suspect, since you found the tie rod end loose.
Once you've changed the ball joints, you are going to need another look at alignment; toe in particularly.
If the toe is not inward, the car will follow every truck rut in the road and feel like it wants to kill you.
Too bad we don't all have Dave to do our work. It seems to me egregious to take money for alignment and miss an untightened tie rod end. Surely there's a good explanation, but I can't imagine what it is. Anyway, this episode reminds me why I do my own work. As the saying goes, at least you know how it was done.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A lot of money is tainted. 'Taint yours and 'taint mine.
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"Too bad we don't all have Dave to do our work" -- Thanks Art! -- but I've enough to do with my own Volvos and Saab. But going back to the problem at hand--let's see what we've got here--loose tie rod, loose lug nuts and shot ball joints---I'd say this shop owes Rhode Island Volvo two things -- a big apology and any money spent there. How could any shop that specializes in tires, alignment and brakes have possibly done an alignment when the ball joints are bad and the the tie rod not installed properly (I do understand RIV did the rack installation himself)-- but just the same the technician should have caught those items first off--and should be totally embarassed at the lug nut situation. The correct and only course that makes sense would have been for the manager to say--"sir, your ball joints are bad--an alignment at this point will be a total waste of time and money. Would you like us to replace them?--and if not your bill for a half hour check out is X amount."
Who is going to do the ball joints? Will these fools know enough to set them in place correctly or will you wind up with them installed backwards with the resulting negative caster. Just wait till you take it down the road with that condition!
In NY shops are licensed by the DMV--RI probably has some sort of similiar licensing--I'd bring the matter to that agency at the slightest hint of non- cooperation from the shop. -- Dave
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Oh, I jumped in here without total comprehension with the idea there was a hijack in the thread. If OP and Tom are the same person....
Nothing implied by hijack. I do it regularly. The hope is we all get talking.
But whoever has the steering problem should seriously pay attention.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat.
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Yep...the use of two user names is really confusing.
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Sorry! Just realized this- my work computer has an old account, for which I thought I didn't have a password- I will correct this.
RIV and I are the same person- perhaps I need a third account for rhodeislandarchitectomvolvo? or maybe having two accounts makes me look less ignorant frequently?
The tie rod end was seated and installed (I know because I used a torque wrench) when I took it to Midas- Clearly I exercised poor decision making having the alignment performed w/ bad ball joints- I was just trying to get it back on the road for the time-being.
What does not track for me, is that if I was not having this steering problem before I did the work, why would it be a result of bad ball joints, which did not change from then til' now?
Getting back to the rack- it really only goes in one way, and everything is tight- what are the potential errors there?
I will install the new ball joints when I receive them (great to have fcp local), and bring it to my volvo mechanic who is a great guy, have been working on them since the early 70's and always gives me a fair deal, unless by some miracle this is a synthesis of ball joint/toe issues brought out by the other work.
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A follow-up, because I have been busy, and avoiding driving the car:
Replaced the ball joints- grease boots were gone, but the joints were still OK. Problem remains: this weekend I will look everything over again, and if all fails, my volvo guy is going to take it next week. And, strut tower mounts appear OK.
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problem solved- it was an idiot mistake: I did this job at ~1am after having to cut the old tie rod ends out because they were seized to the rack. blah,blah, blah... tie rod ends were installed up-side down- how did midas not pick up on that? lesson: use a repair manual, even when your just replacing parts, and don't work on your car, or any other safety related task when you should be in rem sleep. Thank you for your thoughtfulness-
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Could not imagine that was even possible...you have a special talent!
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Thank you for the thorough reply- because it is a significant issue, I'll re-center the rack and see where that gets me, otherwise I'll pay someone to make it right, which I assumed they would do when I had it aligned (what a waste of money) to keep my wife and son safe. The steering was perfect before I did the work- I only replaced so many parts because the joints were seized to the rack was seized to the joints, and the rack was leaking. Tires were on the car before- pressure is OK.
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