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Hi All
Q1. Anyone has a photo/picture on this procedure?
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1434124/220/240/260/280/replacing_harmonic_balancer_shameless_rope_trick_plug.html
Q2. Can I remove the harmonic balancer without loosening the AC/PS belts? Loosen/remove the alternator belt first, loosen the harmonic balancer next and then remove/slide it out with AC belt.
Thank you as always.
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A thought about the expectations of new comers: I'm sure there are many examples that fit Art's characterization, but as time goes by, the growing amount of easily searchable wisdom is probably answering alot of questions. So many people are finding answers and never posting, leaving the less curious to be more proportionaly represented.
I recommend getting the tool for the crank pully tool if you intend to drive these cars for a while. Now that I have 3, it makes things so much easier. It's also useful for removing the cam and intermediate pullies.
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89 240 wagon, 94 940, 200K, 94 940, 135K
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Hi All
Thank you so much!!!
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A1. I just use the Volvo counterhold tool. Found the OEM one for sale for ~$30 one time so I went for it.
A2. On my brother's '90 245, the AC compressor pivot bolt was "seized", or something else was very stuck (couldn't even move the thing with a pry bar), so I pulled the harmonic balancer with the AC belt still tensioned. I also put the balancer back on with the belt still tensioned. It really isn't too hard after you fiddle with the crank key alignment for a bit.
I really can't imagine there being a problem with the "rope method". Perhaps if you are using steel cable...
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I've removed the crank pulley from scrap cars with a 7/8" or 15/16" socket on a 1/2 inch drive with short sharp whacks with a 5 lb mallet from under the car. Belts were left in place.
Of course the idea was to just get the pulley off. Installing it would require stopping the crankshaft from moving to tighten the bolt properly.
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1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
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"Of course the idea was to just get the pulley off. Installing it would require stopping the crankshaft from moving to tighten the bolt properly.
I think some folks will get away with installing it in the same manner. I say "some" because not a small part of this is experience having tools in the hand - so-called muscle memory.
This is one bolt I've reserved for the torque wrench (using the rope to hold the crank) but the key to using any impact method, whether delivered by air tools or whacking a ring spanner, is observing the angular motion of the fastener. The initial 44 lb-ft on the B230 crank is going to be a matter of experience, but anyone can observe the ensuing 60 degrees by watching one flat change places.
I love this rope-trick controversy. Filled with FUD factor.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
It should probably be called Unplanned Parenthood.
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1. In all the yrs visiting this board, seen no pictures.
2. 1985 B230f, just replaced timing belt. If your crank pulley is rusted on(lots are) you will be fighting the belts also. And when you re-install the pulley. There is a raised nub(no key)on the engine and a notch on the pulley that has to be lined up. Fighting the belts will create problem.
Why are you pulling the pulley?
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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:)
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Do not machine wash or tumble dry" means I will never wash this ever.
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Hi Art
Thank you! You had all photos... :) :) :)
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Hi aleekat
"Why are you pulling the pulley?"
I need to replace my timing belt soon, I am just getting ready for it.
There is a rumbling noise when the car is traveling around 20-30mph. I don't think it's not coming from fan clutch or leaky exhaust header... The both engine mounts are good. And I don't think it's wheel bearing either. I don't hear it when I am traveling/cruising at higher speed.
I have yet to mark the white line.
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Hi Swedish Baklava,
Funny that no FAQ contains such information. Not the revered 700-900 FAQ. We have no 240 series FAQ of any worth. No one should make money off the a 240 development effort. Jarrod Stenberg will make money everytime someone clicks on the 240 FAQ if hosted here on the brickboard and they use a JavaScript enabled web browser.
Do you have a service manual? Bentley, Volvo green, or the somewhat lambastable Haynes 240 service manual.
Really best to use the B230 harmonic balancer crank pulley counter-hold tool while removing the bolt that retains the B230 harmonic balancer crank pulley to the crank shaft. The nylon rope trick can induce all variety of problems. Not the least of them the destruction (shearing) of the timing belt pulley gear alignment tooth when you remove or tighten to torque the B230 harmonic balancer crank pulley retaining bolt.
I said it again folks. The rope trick is wholly risky and can cause problems.
Yes, you must remove all accessory drive belts (wasserpumpen-alternator and AC) from the B230 harmonic balancer crank pulley. You'll find you must release tension on the power steering belt before you release tension on the AC drive belt.
After you remove the belts and the harmonic balancer crank pulley retaining belt, the harmonic balancer crank pulley can be sort of stuck to the crank dur to corrsion between the different steel grades. You can tap the interior metal section of the harmonic balancer crank pulley around and around to loosen it. Turn the engine, and tap the interior side, turn the engine, and tap the interior side, and so on. Always pulling forward.
Inspect the bushing material between the harmonic balancer crank pulley sections. Deep cracks and a well rusted harmonic balancer crank pulley may suggest replacement. The B230 and many other harmonic balancers can fail most spectacularly and expensively. The Volvo B230 harmonic balancer crank pulley design, however, should exhibit some symptoms of failure before the bushing matter fails and it separates.
As for your rumbling noise, well, I don't know what to say. You can use any variety of diagnostic tools from a wooden dowel to a mechanic's stethoscope to help. You may also ask someone to drive it for you as you walk along side to listen for the rumbling sound.
A failing Volvo B230 harmonic balancer may make a belt slipping sometime squealing sound before it fails. Driveline?
Good luck. Maybe describe your symptoms a little more, please?
cheers,
Sony CD Receiver CDX-4160 from a yunkyard 1987 240 to a 1992 240. Freshly serviced by me.
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"The nylon* rope trick can induce all variety of problems...
I said it again folks. The rope trick is wholly risky and can cause problems".
Please cite one confirmed example of the dire rope trick consequences you drivel on about at every opportunity. I feel duty-bound to counter your authoritatively worded techno-babble myths to keep them from spreading.
* Cotton clothesline is suggested, not nylon. That's your embellishment.
To me it's worth noting that these occasional "sky-will-fall" rope trick warnings always come from self-styled authorities who, although they've never tried it, are vehemently opposed despite all the positive user experiences reported here over the years (partial list below):
2001 Here
2007 and Here
2007 and Here
2007 and Here
2008 and Here
2008 and Here
2008 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Here
2009 and Hereand Here
2010 and Here
2010 and Here
2010 and Here
And the list goes on...
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Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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If you hadn't noticed, there's nearly as much "authoritatively worded techno-babble" crap flying around the board these days as sound advice. I'm glad I joined years ago, because if I was a newcomer I'd think that the single most important maintenance job on a 240 was changing the dreaded aluminum fuses.
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One difference I perceive, whether rightly or wrongly, is newer comers seem more likely to expect help on the internet as entitlement, rather than delight in having it. That "help" needs to bypass the basics; to be "step-by-step" without any need to invoke the thought process.
The main difference between rope and tool is the thought ingredient. To use the rope, you have to think about what you can't see inside the engine. To use the tool, you can be thinking about dinner instead.
(Aluminum? Really?? I respect your metallurgical sense; that's why my eyebrows are raised.)
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
SUCCESS:
At age 4 success is . . . not peeing in your pants.
At age 12 success is . . . having friends.
At age 16 success is . . . having a drivers license.
At age 20 success is . . . going all the way.
At age 35 success is . . . having money.
At age 50 success is . . . having money.
At age 60 success is . . . going all the way.
At age 70 success is . . . having a drivers license.
At age 75 success is . . . having friends.
At age 80 success is . . . not peeing in your pants.
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Probably not aluminum, Art, but I believe I've seen somebody refer to them as such recently. I should have used "quotation marks." Likely tin or lead. But the material of a fuse doesn't matter - a fuse is a fuse, brass corrodes just as much as tin or lead in wet conditions, and with testing, you could make a fuse out of steel and still have it work properly. I have had a mish-mash of oddball fuses in my '93 sedan since I bought the car 7 years ago, and the only time Ive had trouble is when I do something stupid and ground a hot wire. Just one example of false gospel I've seen lately.
You are spot-on about the mentality of many newer visitors to the board. Seems like several years ago there was a growing community of people who wanted to learn everything they could about old Volvos and how to keep them running; now you get more desperate people who just want to know how to save a buck on fixing their old beater - don't teach them to diagnose the problem, just tell them how to fix it!
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"Hi Art - Thank you for those pictures. I will give it a try. I have no clue what I am fixing but it's ok for me as long as the clock works again!"
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1538350/220/240/260/280/time_stands_still.html
Hi Art and Sean
I am guilty your honor. Find me a small hole so I can crawl inside...
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OK, I wondered afterward if you were quoting. I've heard them referred to as tin, and even lead, but I didn't recall hearing aluminum. The nickel-plated glass-bodied fuses were actually hawked as being "stainless steel." Myths sometimes originate with suppliers.
I had thought the fuses were zinc, or tin/antimony. I don't know. I just figured, by the white stuff they grew, it was something distant from copper in the galvanic series.
You're right, the material should not matter to the user, but unfortunately for us, the water from leaky windshields follows the harness wiring down into the 240's fuse panel, and even if the fuse material doesn't matter, the contacts surely do. Where I've replaced with brass or copper (similar to the holder) I've not had to do that "fuse roll" 240 owners have learned to do even while driving in traffic.
Zinc in Automotive Fuses
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames by ropes when you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase "goodnight, sleep tight".
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That's a great point - I had not considered the galvanic corrosion issue. Mostly because I've never had an issue with corrosion there. And that's on two 240s after long-term use, and a few more that have passed through my hands quickly. A case of "your mileage may vary," I guess. Now that you've sparked my interest, I might replace some of my old fuses and test the metal, because I really have never had to pay any more attention to them than, "is it broken?"
More on topic, I have replaced four timing belts using an impact wrench and never had a single issue. The rope trick is a great trick to know, but I haven't found it necessary to get the crank pulley torque that exact. However, given my (apparently) atypical experience with the fuses, I hesitate to recommend it!
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Sean, I will always remember the FUD that worked on me, regarding using the impact on the crank pulley. The theory was, the B230 cranks were cast, not forged -- a metal feature you would know about better than I. Compared with the forged B21/B23 and (from what I hear) later B230 L-block, the crank was considered a likely victim of fracture (on impact) at the part where it thinned to receive the bolt. If I got that right.
Talk about myth propagation... I have no idea if this is indeed true, but the fear of having the end of a crank fall off kept me from using the rat-a-tat convenience tool. I would not be that surprised to find out it was really the nubs on the sprockets (new to B230) that got zipped off with the rattle guns. That, and I'm not sure I could use mine with the radiator in place.
But on the fuses being clean - I saw one in the junkyard with an uncorroded fuse panel. Once. I wondered if it was the only 240 with a well-sealed windshield like the one on my 79. If you have two of them, they must be more common than I thought possible. You never had to roll a fuse?
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Never put both feet in your mouth at the same time, because then you won't have a leg to stand on.
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Never had a fault due to poor fuse contact, no. I've blown plenty of fuses from stupidity, frayed wires, crumbling insulation, etc., but my fuse box is dry and my fuses uncorroded. I have the original windshield in my '93 (which looks frosted in the evening sun), and the replacement windshield in the '91 I drove for years leaked from the top, but did not run down the fuse panel. Luck, I guess. Perhaps by '93 Volvo was doing something different to prevent fuse-box ravaging leaks?
The cast vs. forged crank debate, I can't say I have examined more than one crank from a 240, but I personally have no fear of the crank breaking from a wisely employed impact wrench. I do occasionally worry about the bolt walking off or stretching enough to snap one day, but I have not had either happen yet, so I'll continue to zip through my timing belt changes.
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"The nylon rope trick can induce all variety of problems. Not the least of them the destruction (shearing) of the timing belt pulley gear alignment tooth when you remove or tighten to torque the B230 harmonic balancer crank pulley retaining bolt."
Could you please elaborate? Many,many people on this board recommend this, I have never seen anyone post back that something went wrong.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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Okay. Couple tips. FAQs has good write up on timing belt. You only need to remove the #1 plug. I only fed about 12" of rope and it worked fine. If your accessory belts are suspect, change them while your in there. Use some white out on all the marks. Once the pulley is off, I used some #0000 steel wool inside the pulley and on the crank, then sprayed some oil. Make note how the washer behind the pulley goes on.
If you don't know the history of the tensioner, replace it. Got the belt(gatorback) and tensioner for under $30 shipped from rockauto.com(ignore the part that says "for interference engine", they don't know.) GTK0032
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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