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I hate getting old with back back and trying to use reading glasses working under my Volvos. Rats. But I continue with some tasks......, and I've done my 240 brakes for the past 30 years on all three 240's here.
Currently I'm slowly progressing through a full brake job on my '77 242. Did front calipers and flexible lines with FCP parts. I had to take a LOT of care with the hard lines because of age, but they all freed up and it worked..with lots of penetrant. Whew.
Not so good this morning beginning on rears. That danged hard line coming into the rear caliper presents poor visibility when laying on the floor under the car. In spite of a week of soaking the fitting and taking an hour of slowing working it's removal, it broke the hard line right at the caliper fitting.
So now I need to replace the hard line(s) going back along the axle to the flexible line connector. Original lines appear to be copper, but I seem to recall that, at least in American practice, copper is never used for brake lines.....only steel. When I remove the line, (may end up with same problem on the other side too), I suppose I can take it to a shop and have a duplicate made up, with some guess work on pre-bending them. (Kinking brake lines is always a potential and headache)
How do you guys deal with similar situations? I live in a remote area so Volvo parts sources are all mail order unless NAPA has something that occasionally works. Not sure I can even buy pre-made/formed Volvo rear hard lines.
I did buy the rear flexible lines so I guess I might as well go ahead and replace them now, even though those on the car still look very good. (Less flexing in the rear lines) Broken hard line has to be disconnected at the flex line point anyway.
Tips appreciated,
Dennis in rural E WA state.......
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"That danged hard line coming into the rear caliper presents poor visibility when laying on the floor under the car"
I don't crawl under. I remove the calipers and rotate them to access the brake line fittings. (Using the tire to sit on.) A loose caliper also helps as you can rotate it instead of the flare nut, if the flare nut is seized to the line.
Bubble flare kits are available online for around $20. And cupro-nickel lines can be salvaged from old Volvos. The two lengths from the front to the rear can do a lot of brakes. Brass brake line flare nuts can also can be salvaged from scrap cars as they often also get damaged during brake service. (I often have to resort to a vise grip when an 11 mm flare wrench rounds the nut). I keep these parts on hand so I'm not concerned about doing a brake job.
I've used the compression fitting shown in Lucid's photo, without problems.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Mon Sep 17 19:47 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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I've bought the hard lines...copper ...for the front from FCP Groton but I,ve got an 80
don't know if there's a difference...but they sell all the hard lines,
http://www.fcpgroton.com/category-exec/category_id/59/sub_top_menu_item/by_make-by_model-by_year/by_make/78/by_model/1116/by_year/30
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CB:
Good thoughts. I'd already decided to remove the pads then tilt the caliper on the right side with the one remaining stubborn fitting. The fitting itself has broken loose, just not so on the copper line. So I'll hold the fitting with a tubing wrench while I, "unwind," the caliper from it. Then I can have better access to the fitting/line to soak and even heat if needed. I would like to save this line.
I did find FCP had left rear lines for, "78-," cars, so I took a chance that my '77 is close to a '78, and ordered two. They list same for right side, but are noted to be, "unavailable."
So while those are on on their way I'll look into geting the double flare kit you mentioned. I guess that is the way they'd be listed on ebay. My nearest chance for a Volvo parts car/wrecking yard , etc., is close to a 100 miles. Not handy.
It'll all get done, and probably a good job as well, but I just need to be patient. Meanwhile, as my wife's health is not good, there's a ton of housework to be done as well as a lot of other outside projects piling up. Retirement means not getting bored. With this economic depression nationwide, at least I appreciate that I have things to do with what I already own. Ha.
Dennis
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"I'll look into geting the double flare kit"
Bubble flare. Don't confuse the two.
eg. http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4504-Stinger-Bubble-Flaring/dp/B0015PMZMU
Though there is a youtube video of using a double flare kit to make a bubble flare.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
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"So now I need to replace the hard line(s) going back along the axle to the flexible line connector. Original lines appear to be copper, but I seem to recall that, at least in American practice, copper is never used for brake lines.....only steel."
Be glad you have a copper. Steel rusts, copper doesn't. Imagine if your '77 had steel lines. I did some research on the copper lines a few years ago. This piece covered it pretty well:
"...Efforts to achieve a metallurgical solution to the corrosion problem continued. Volvo began the use of 90-10 copper-nickel ("Cunifer Alloy") tube in their 1976 model vehicles and have been using it since. Figure 1 shows the installation at the master cylinder in a 1990 model Volvo. Audi began using this material in 1990. The other European cars using this material are Porsche and Aston Martin."
and:
"Users of copper-nickel brake tubing in addition to Volvo include world-class vehicle manufacturers like Rolls Royce, Lotus, Aston Martin, Porsche and, most recently, Audi. Copper-nickel is also used in military, fire fighting and other heavy vehicles."
Too bad you don't have some junk Volvos around. When I was in your pickle, I'd cut off junker sections with a good end fitting (like the 2 from the Master Cylinder), then splice in what I needed with a 3/16" ID compression union. Like with the B21 injector line shown below.
"Not sure I can even buy pre-made/formed Volvo rear hard lines."
• NAPA can get straight ones most any length with the correct "bubble" flared fittings. I think they call them "Euro" style.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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The idea of salvaging a length of original copper line is a good idea-----compression fittings will work for fuel lines and transmission lines but have no place in a brake system. -- Dave
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...compression fittings will work for fuel lines and transmission lines but have no place in a brake system."
Yes—I confess, Dave. I splice brake lines, using 3/16" I.D. brass compression unions from the hardware store. I've used them for years on 7 or 8 family & local cars (including my own first), where I could track the results, and have never had a leak or failure of any kind.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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My local Advance Auto Parts had a good selection of hard brake line with the European bubble flare. It was all Poly-Armour, which is a PVC coated steel line that bends very easily by hand. Hopefully you can find a piece the right length.
Good luck!
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Too bad about the hard line--but you can make one yourself with a small investment in tools--a small pipe cutter--a hand held pipe bender--a double flare kit. I bought my own tools maybe 30 years ago so I don't have a fix on their cost these days--but with Harbor Freight and others stores like it the cost shouldn't be prohibitive. Pre-made lengths of brake line are pretty cheap and available at most parts stores. Use one of your current fittings to match those available. One end can be used as is--then bend/cut to length--slide the other new fitting onto the piece you're shaping and then make the double flare. It's not hard to do and you can practice on the remaining length of pipe. -- Dave
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Well, just returned from town. No European brake lines at NAPA there. They never heard of the PVC coated stuff mentioned elsewhere here that is PVC coated. So I'm searching my tool supply to see if I can form a double flare....or is that really the same as a European flare??
Local sources carry copper line in bulk, I guess I could get some of that but it certainly is not the same as Volvo Copper/Nickel material.
So the search is on.
Dennis
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The double flare is slightly different from the European bubble flare. A double flare might work, but I am not willing to do the experiment on my own brakes.
My local NAPA has the Poly-Armour lines, but NAPAs do vary. Look for an Advance Auto nearby - their stock should be pretty identical from one store to the next.
I was wrong about the PVC coating - its PVF. Either way, it's a plastic coating that provides better corrosion resistance. Do a Google search on Poly-Armour. It has very good reviews from everybody. That is not to say that I wouldn't jump at the chance to use the original Copper/Nickel alloy lines. FCP Groton sells lengths of the copper line, pre-flared; you just have to know which length to order.
I would go to your local brake shop and see if they'll sell you what you need.
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Thank you all. That will probably give me enough encouragement to deal with this. I do have some old flare fitting tools, tubing cutter, etc. All used for U.S. stuff, just not Volvo fittings. That PVC coated tubing sounds interesting.....wonder how it bends without collapsing the line in the bend. We used to use a steel spring pushed over tubing at the desired spot to be bent and that prevented collapsing the tube. Not sure I have any the right size.
I am quite pleased to see the report on the copper lines. I would have used copper anyway because of it's resistance to corrosion, but this helps.
Right now I've started on the rear right side fitting. Doesn't look good, but I'm going back out with Kroil this time, (PB Blaster before), and use the Kroil over the next couple days before I get wild with the wrench. I'd like to save the right side because it is longer and hoops over the differential.
What fun.
Dennis
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