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Alternator bakelite broke off 200 1992

Removed my alternator with notion to check brushes since I have had this car four years. I'm not experiencing problems. Just want to check and clean it up and replace the accessory bushings. While running a paper towel over the bakelite insulation surrounding the battery (B+) terminal, a large piece broke off around that terminal. I have little faith that an adhesive could make a decent repair. So, will this compromised bakelite lead to further issues if I ignore the missing piece? Can this whole insulation be removed and replacements found?

Thanks,
For the fun of Volvos,
Mike
--
'92 245DL, '90 760 GLT








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DUPLICATE - My Bad. Easily removed the bakelite insulator. Removed the regulator/brushes for inspection. Both brushes were at minimum limit of 5mm or less.

For the fun of Volvos,
Mike
--
'92 245DL, '90 760 GLT



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Good thing you caught it (the brushes). How many miles on them?

I ask because my #1 daughter just paid $400 for an alternator plus whatever for the tow. Now she's going to hand the shop another $50 for the core so I can have a look at why the brushes I put in at 300K are worn at 350K, if that was indeed the failure mode. If nothing else, examining the core may tell me something about the local shop she used.

The feeling I get, is as these alts get older, the slip rings chew through brushes at a faster rate.

The insulator does just that, so you, looking closely, have the best idea whether it is still in good enough shape to do that job. Probably gets pretty warm down there under the manifold.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.



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"
I ask because my #1 daughter just paid $400 for an alternator plus whatever for the tow. Now she's going to hand the shop another $50 for the core so I can have a look at why the brushes I put in at 300K are worn at 350K, if that was indeed the failure mode"


I had one of my brushes ground down so far it fell out of the holder. This after 30K on an I had rebuilt...new Bosch regulator/brush package...and bearings.

I drove it maininly highway miles 65-80mph.

I believe the slip ring that the brushes ride on wore them out...the alt had 130K on it.

it stranded me in Hagerstown...luckly I got off I70 and into a Mercedes dealer parking lot before the battery died....my hint to get off the highway was all my gages went to 0 position and the cassette stopped. ...long story but I got a new reg/brush pack at a VOLVO stocked pick and pull....open on Sunday no less.

Older alts burn thru brushes.

Alt parts

http://www.wagneralt.com/visions/units.asp?ID=51416



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Thanks for the confirmation. If it was the same yard I'm thinking of, within earshot of I-70, I know the scene. I was victim to my own magpie behavior, grabbing a shiny alt from a 740, where the grabbing only takes 5 minutes, only to buy myself another shoddy spray-and-pray rebuild with a stator short when hot. Went back to pull another with a Bosch rebuild sticker, not so shiny.

I've been reluctant to carry parts in our cars, but I have to admit, the majority of times a 240 has gone down on the road, it has been due to the alternator, and the overwhelming majority of those events were fixed with new brushes. A regulator assembly and a sturdy Phillips screwdriver would have saved a lot of running around, in several cases.

And yes, I know the feeling when the radio is the first indicator of charging system failure. And limping home with lights off and using the p-brake to avoid the drain of the brake lights.

BTW, of interest to you I think, I just caught wind of the idea our round sealed beam headlamps are no longer $3 at Walmart, but around $30 each?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.



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$30 yikes....well I've got some spares....maybe I should stock up if I can find them cheaper. Like 100W incandescent bulbs.



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A visit to Walmart seems to indicate my sky-is-falling concerns about the sealed beam may be premature. Those are 7" rounds at the far right. Nothing over $12.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

1. King Ozymandias of Assyria was running low on cash after years of war with the Hittites. His last great possession was the Star of the Euphrates, the most valuable diamond in the ancient world. Desperate, he went to Croesus, the pawnbroker, to ask for a loan.

Croesus said, "I'll give you 100,000 dinars for it".

"But I paid a million dinars for it," the King protested. "Don't you know who I am? I am the king!"

Croesus replied, "When you wish to pawn a Star, makes no difference who you are."



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Funny you mention "spares". When I had my undiagnosed charging problem in my '76 (ended up my arch nemesis the alt ground wire) I was carrying a spare fully charged battery. I had to use it once when70 miles from home. That particular car could apparently run 70 miles with no accessories on with a fully charged battery.

Now days I lean toward PM over spares. On my current beater the only spares I carry in the car are fuses, tire, and AMM. I do carry at least a quart or motor oil, tranny fluid and 3 quarts of drinking water.

As PM I pulled the regulator brush pack and checked the length when I was replacing the acc bushings. I also resoldered all the plastic case relays and replaced the failed pink-label ecu. Oh, and I replace the alt ground wire just because.

Of course I still carry more tools than I should but that has more to do with the fact that this is also the car I drive to work on our "race" car.



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Right on about the battery. More than one rescue of mine has depended on a Walmart with a battery, and its expected 50-mile range. Lucky for me these things have always been daylight events, so turning off the lights was no biggie.

My PM habits are terrible. I have to look up at a white board to remember what to check when changing the oil. Things like tank pump operation, and air in the spare. Have to look at a windshield sticker to know when to do that.

The problem with carrying spare parts, for me, has always been which cars to carry what in. Yes, the spare tire comes with the car, along with the jack and roll-up tool sampling, and so do spare fuses, at the bottom of the panel. So I leave the AMMs and the ECUs in the garage, but have included this tool kit in the glove boxes. The pocket cell phone has changed the whole nature of the automotive reliability fears.

Oleseahorse has taken the extra step of equipping his fleet with cigar-lighter voltmeters. He sent me one to play with. The only thing they lack is an attention-getting device, but I know that is also available, if not annoying in its function. There is a need for a better charge failure idiot light. May be past time to build that mousetrap.

Yet somehow I sense my daughter is peeved with me at having to shell out $450 for an alternator. Could be my warped perception though.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Frank Sinatra



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CB-

Does the Wagner site you listed sell parts to individuals or only companies?

Looked around at their site quickly and I saw they have starter parts-I need a planetary gear for a starter I wanted to rebuild.

Travis



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a couple of years ago my alt went bad because the plastic cup inside the rear bearing holder cracked, as a result there was a wobble.

I called Wagner and they said that they ususally only sell to jobbers but as times were tough...the recession... they would sell to anybody.

haven't tried them recently.

but if they sell to you please post an update.



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I've also searched through the Wagner catalog in the past, thinking I could get starter drives and the planetary carrier for the Bosch 1.4kW but could never quite match up the numbers. Not having a particular Wagner part number, I never pursued it on line, but imagined I could take that number to the local wood-floor auto parts place (I think ours disappeared), or perhaps get to know the automotive electric rebuilder up the road.

Once before I was able to get the starter drive across the counter at a parts store -- for the earlier starter.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.



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That pic is exactly what a 8 month old Advance rebuild looked like. It had a broken planetary gear, worn brushes and was completely filled with black grease that looked more like gritty mud. The thing sounded like a vacuum cleaner every time you would turn the ignition switch. I need to stick that one back together.

Need a planetary gear, solenoid and probably brushes for another.

Travis



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This 245 has 180k mi. I'm not the original owner though. Got this car four years ago. Yes, I'm glad I did catch the worn brushes.

For the fun of Volvos,
Mike
--
'92 245DL, '90 760 GLT



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Four years sounds like it could be a few miles. Very few of us on this board are indeed the original owners, but I know I've done the brush replacement more than once on some of ours. I think I've gotten 90K before. I should go through the records before guessing at numbers. Glad to hear the epoxy took hold.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

A man's home is his castle, in a manor of speaking.



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Easily removed the bakelite insulator. Removed regulator/brushes and the brushes were worn down to minimum limit, 5mm on one and less for the other.

For the fun of Volvos,
Mike
--
'92 245DL, '90 760 GLT



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2 part epoxy is likely stronger than the original plastic. I can't speak to whether or not the broken piece will cause problems.



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I followed your suggestion. The mended break is now curing. Also, took it to AdvanceAuto to ask if they carried these as a separate part. No luck, so, I'm hoping the epoxy holds. If it doesn't, maybe a trip to the PNP?

For the fun of Volvos,
Mike
--
'92 245DL, '90 760 GLT



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JB Weld ...the strongest stuff ...as must have in your tool kit.

http://www.jbweld.com/



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Wouldn't use it for an insulator. It might not be especially conductive, but it does contain a lot of powdered steel. I prefer to keep Devcon 2-ton epoxy around.

Somebody (Devcon, 3M?) also makes an epoxy especially for plastics that is pretty outstanding.



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