Hi all,
I know that you can't successfully use a Bosch fuel pump made for a N/A engine on a turbocharged one, but what about the reverse?

Can I use a Bosch 0 580 464 025 main pump (from a b230ft) on a b23 engined 244? Or will it deliver too much pressure and hurt my fuel injection system?

I know that adding a higher capacity pre-pump (in tank) pump is typically regarded as a performance upgrade, but does that also hold true for main (undercar) pumps?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Bruce
83 244
Grand Rapids, MI

I hope this helps. You may be aware that in maney cases the entire fuel pump need not be replaced saving you money. There is a company in akron ohio that provides replacement fuel pumps and parts. I had no idea what they did even though I drove past it several times a week.
The nane is S.U.R.&R. , they are on the internet, I have not used them but I will be in future.
David 5300
1990 & 1991 240

To the OP, another in-tank pump that offers more pressue to the main pump CAN be used, but as Art says, isn't an upgrade if it doesn't function differently than any other stock application in an everyday situation.
That being said, and respecting Art's wisdom, there are performance conditions that if one were to add to a 240 EFI car, the addition of the Delco/Carter pre-pump CAN make a difference.
On my 91 245 I added a set of 16v injectors which flow about 6-8% more than stock, modified the intake and put a custom 2 1/2 exhaust along with a VX cam, and it made a moderate difference with the 'up-graded' pre-pump, which puts out 6 psi instead of 3.5 psi the stock pump gives. This isn't that much of a difference, and only realized it at high rpm's but when I added a 4 bar FPR, it made a big difference, only at or near WOT, and only when sustained above 5500 rpm's. In the real world this is not that much of an improvement, which I don't realize often as I don't drive in 2nd gear at redline often, if at all, and 3rd gear at redline is illegal (88 mph).
What the pre-pump offers, upgraded or stock is that 'roll' of the fuel system not getting depleted on acceleration or load, and gives that free-wheeling effect, something that's there whether it's 3.5 psi or 6 psi.. That and longevity of the main pump.
BTW the Carter pre-pump was a bit costly, and lasted only 2 yrs until it locked up (orig one lasted 18 yrs) The cheapo Wells-Airtek I replaced it with from Autozone is spec'd at 6 psi, but bet it won't last a year.

More specificaly, the 240 T pump is different, and a EFI car pump won't flow enough to support K-Jet cars, but any EFI cars' pump is interchangable.

The reason I believe I need to replace my main fuel pump is that it is making screeching noises when I first start the car in the morning, and that continues for the first 5 minutes until the car warms up a bit.

Now I know that I might also be hearing the effects of a pre-pump that is making the main pump work too hard, but I'd expect that the main pump would continue making that sound even after the car warms up, if the pre-pump wasn't doing its job correctly.

Also, I had the pre-pump replaced (with a tested but used unit) about 8 months ago. Not saying that the replacement couldn't have died since then, but the odds are pointing towards the main pump this time.

And yes, I do troll the tbricks site, even though I drive a N/A car. Between here and there, I can find the answers to almost all my Volvo questions.

Hey Bruce, I think I've given you enough to at least have you question your previous assertions. In my mind, the used tank pump combined with no specific test to find out if it is performing adds up to speculation about the origin of the screeching sound from your main pump.

The sound of cavitation in the main pump might be described as screeching. But I'm with you if you're thinking it has screeched long enough to give you the impression there's now slop in the armature bushings. There has to be a point after which a main pump is abused beyond recovery.

And when I replace it (despite the fact it is still not being fed by the tank pump) and find the replacement pump creates enough pull from a full tank compared with the older pump, I'll declare success, and begin the cycle again.

Bottom line, wait until you're down to less than a half tank, pull the input to the main pump and run the tank pump by itself (power to right side of fuse 5) and satisfy yourself that tank pump can deliver the fuel, before swapping the main pump. Volvo eventually "got wise" and stuck a Schrader tap on that line, but it was about 10 years after your car was built.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

In democracy it's your vote that counts; in feudalism it's your count that votes.

http://www.pbase.com/stealthfti/itp

Which is "...supplying a larger volume to the chassis pump helps the chassis pump to run quieter. Because the chassis pump is not starving for fuel, it does not cavitate; and it just hums along nice and quiet. which implies a correctly functioning stock pump does starve the main pump for fuel.

That may indeed be the case with a k-jet 240T, in those modified with elevated boost pressures, but off of the race track I remain skeptical, especially as it relates to ordinary maintenance.

One thing I am sure of, is anyone who has decided to do this procedure Tom has photo-journaled so well, is the least likely person to write it up as a waste of time and money.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Show me a piano falling down a mine shaft, and I'll show you A-flat minor.

Hi Art
I quote Tom as Gospel, as I do you, Lucid, Porkface and few others in the Volvo realm on occasion. I will neither defend his assertions nor argue against them. It would feel like arguing the presence or absence of the Higgs Boson with Steven Hawkings....I know what I know...and I have a pretty good idea of what I dont.
Matt

Matt, the gospel won't be found in any of my posts, but I do enjoy a technical subject analyzed in depth. For me, that's what makes a technical discussion board a place worth returning to.

If you re-read Tom's captions, you might come to the same conclusion I did: he replaced a defective pump and corroded sender, and decided to use a bigger pump when he did. If there's more there, I didn't find it.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Life would be tragic if it weren't funny. --Stephen Hawking

"Did he call it a "replacement' or an 'upgrade'?"

Look at what Tom actually did, not what he called it. Yankee Doodle stuck a feather in his hat...
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you've made up your mind that you just aren’t doing anything productive for the rest of the day.

So installing a pump with a greater flow rate is not an upgrade simply because you don't see any utility to it? An upgrade is in the eye of the beholder? Installing a 400HP V8 in a 240 would be an upgrade to me because I would see utility in it(and use it) BUT would not be an upgrade in the same car if my Grandma were to drive it because she wouldn't see a utility to it(nor use it)??
Interesting. Must be my "Tim the Toolman" logic getting in the way.

No, Matt, I say Tom can, as well as you can, call it anything you like. Call it macaroni.

If "upgrade" is a good thing, call it an upgrade. I would if I needed someone's approval on the bill. However, if there's no accompanying increase in measurable performance "upgrade" over stock replacement, it is just as well called macaroni. I'm fully aware Tom realized an increase in performance over the non-functioning old unit. There's no evidence I saw that it walks like a duck.

Let me ask you a question. Did you buy the IPD thing? Did I inadvertently criticize your decision? Is your 240 now 740-powered? Have you trimmed and bent the feed tube in your fuel tank? If so, I hope Tom's photos have helped you and you appreciate the work he put into them. Tom is a contributor; a giver.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

If a cow laughed, would milk come out her nose?

Lost the battle of logic so resort to innuendo re: "Tom is a giver"....tsk tsk. It's beneath you Art and frankly for perhaps the first time in my reading of your commentary, it leaves me disappointed. As I have obviously gotten your old ass knickers in a twist...TTYL.

Yes sir, Matt, you certainly have my number. I just have to make a point of remembering yours. Sorry.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts.

Hi Bruce,

This all sounds so TB to me.

"I know that you can't successfully use a Bosch fuel pump made for a N/A engine on a turbocharged one ..."

How do you know?

"Can I use a Bosch 0 580 464 025 main pump (from a b230ft) on a b23 engined 244? Or will it deliver too much pressure and hurt my fuel injection system?"

It won't deliver too much pressure and it won't hurt your fuel injection system. But, will it fit?

The main pump merely has to exceed the regulator pressure and flow enough volume to keep up with your demand wide-open-throttle up the mountainside. With the regulator returning 90% or more to the tank, there's little chance of a pump not doing that given an unclogged filter, good input of fuel and electricity.

"I know that adding a higher capacity pre-pump (in tank) pump is typically regarded as a performance upgrade, but does that also hold true for main (undercar) pumps?"

It is indeed regarded as an upgrade to swap the in-tank pump with a more expensive one. By that, I think it gives the swapper a sense of accomplishment, but probably does nothing whatever to help the fuel system. It upgrades the bottom line over at IPD too. As long as the tank pump can furnish the main pump with a vaporless stream of liquid (which the stock pump is quite capable of) it is already upgraded to the max.

I'd say, if you have one, and it fits, put it in. What can you lose, compared to the price of a new pump? That is what I'd do. Next question: what makes you think the pump needs to be replaced?

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Art Benstein near Baltimore

A man will pay $20 for a $10 item he needs. A woman will pay $10 for a $20 item that she doesn't need.