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STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

1990 740 non turbo, Bosch FI. 120k miles.
Runs fantastic. Driving up to Lake Tahoe the car started dying at 3500 ft altitude on a 105 degree day.
We would pull over let it sit for about 10 to 15 min and the car would start and run fine for another 5 or 10 miles on the highway then start cutting out again.
Really feels like fuel deliverey.

Is there any way to narrow it down by listening to fuel pumps?
Does anyone know a Volvo mechanic in the Truckee, Donner area.

We had the car towed to our location at Donner lake. (due to road work there were no sholders on the highway the remaining 20 miles)

Help Please.....








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    More on fuel pumps

    Vapor lock or in-tank fuel pump are good possibilties.

    Does your car have an in-tank fuel pump and a main pump? My 90 240 had both. Don't know about 740's. The in-tank pump might be dying. The main pumps on Volvos usually go a long way. Can outlast the car. My 90 when I sold it at 300k still had its main pump. My 850 has just one pump and it is still going strong at 200k! Fingers crossed...:)










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    STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

    How full is your gas tank?

    Try filling up.

    740 fuel pick-ups have problems as they age.

    Our '88 745 GLE acted up when fuel got below 1/4 of a tank. We owned this car so long that we forgot twice!

    I have read posts that told of this problem getting worse over time.
    --
    '96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '12 XC70, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 525,000 miles put on 10 bricks








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    STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

    Dies and restarts when cool is not quite enough information. But there are two very common temp related failures: FI system relay (formerly known as fuel pump relay) and the ignition power stage.

    If it is the FI relay you can open up the relay tray, pull the cover off the relay. Turn off the radio and leave the fan on a nice quiet setting. When you hear the relay click, have a passenger push the contacts back together...On 760, this was usually enough to finish a drive in peace. In my case it was not the relay on my 1990 760 turbo but the relay socket but to the same effect...the heavy lugs could carry current but the coil would open and close intermittently.

    If itis the power stage, about the only thing you can do in the middle of the desert is try to find new dielectric grease at parts store and re-grease the back until you can get the proper paste.








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      STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

      The powerstage is a known weak point on 740s; it will leave you stranded unless you have replacement. It's above battery, black oblong shaped (3-4") with one connector to it, screws or bolt attached.

      Remove it and see if grease is missing, then add some (when you're back home, get proper heat sink grease). Powerstage overheats and could be cutting out in 105 degree weather.








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      STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

      is the relay supposed to cycle? does the relay control the in tank pump or the pump under the car?

      Driving the car locally I can't get the symtom to reoccur.
      I will change the relay. but how will I know if one of the pumps are still bad or not? The only time this problem has showed up was after driving 3 hrs in 100 plus degree weather up a grade at 4000 ft altitude. Otherwise the car runs great.








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        STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

        The relay is supposed to turn on when the ECU tells it to and not cycle off until it tells it to. The problem is that if the relay is failing or the connector has been repeatedly overheated, at temp (temperature of the relay), it can fail to have enough oompf to close the contacts even with the signal from the ECU.

        The main pump and in tank pump are controlled at the same time by the relay.

        Since this is an intermittent and rare failure, there is no way to guarantee that the main pump is not bad, but it low on the list of likely failure items.

        Since it looks like you are back home, do the thermal paste on the power stage either way.








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          STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

          Well I am at my vacation destination and to return home I need to climb the grade again. In 2 weeks the car will be going to Los Angeles (over the grapevine, big climb) with my son for college. So it sure would be good to know if the relay and or the pump is the problem.

          I think I will get a new relay and try to get it home. All symtoms point to the relay. When/if I get home I might just have the mechanic change both pumps too. I am only getting incremental value from them at this point as they seem to go bad at about 150k milea anyway. Car has 120k miles now.








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            STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

            The conditions (high ambient temperature, stalls when hot, starts when cool) also suggest fuel system vapor lock, a condition when a combination of low fuel pressure and hot temps lead to vaporization in the fuel lines. The offending parts in this case would be a weak pump and/or a failing fuel pressure regulator.

            Might not be a bad idea to have the fuel pressure measured.








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              STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

              That makes a lot of sense.
              I never consider vapor lock on fuel injected cars, but with a combination of things almost failing, i.e. weak fuel pump and marginal pressure regulator, I guess it could happen.

              Thank You








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                STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

                Replaced a perfectly good looking fuel pump relay. Opened the old one up and all solder joints looked good as did the comntacts. Got the car back home, but I have ZERO confidence the relay was the problem.
                Talked top my mechanic and we think it is time for a main fuel pump.
                He was a Volco service manager when these cars were new and said that the fuel pumps are a 70,000 mile item and not to expect much more than that. Car has 120k on the original pump.








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                  STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

                  He may have been a service manager but I think he is being EXTREMELY pessimistic. From the K-jet era pumps to the 1990 240 I have now and the 1990 760 turbo I had before...all had original main pumps except the 1979 240 where I replaced it at a (stopped odometer) mileage of 320K miles with the used pump from my 1976 244 with 240K miles on it. Not saying the pump is not bad, just that I would check the other items first. Only one of those cars has less than 200K miles on it.

                  You have not addressed the power stage issue that I saw in any of you responses. If nothing else at least check it to make sure the back still has a full load of thermal paste on it.








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                    STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

                    I am not sure where to find the power stage. I have looked on the left fender and there is an item mounted to the fender behind the air filter braket. Is that it? It looks like the air filter assembly needs to be removed to access it.
                    Am I looking at the right thing? It has a conector that is the same type as the mass air flow meter conector.

                    There is nothing mounted to the rt fender above the battery.

                    Something else I noticed is that one of the 2 relays on the rt fender near the overflow tank has a loose mount to the bracket. Does this relay depend on the ground of the bracket or does it have a ground wire running to it.








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                      STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues

                      The two relays are the fan relay and the Radio suppression relay...they do not ground through the bracket. They are identical and can be swapped. The RSR can cause issues but I a forgetting if they match the symptoms or not.

                      I do not remember exactly where the Power stage was on my my 760 turbo but it is a white rectangle about 2" x 3" x 3/8" with a connector on the bottom.

                      http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/ElectricalIgnition.html#IgnitionAmplifer








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                        STRANDED HELP!!!!! 740 wagon FI issues UPDATE.......

                        Replaced the main fuel pump. When it was removed metal particles came out when tipped over, which indicates wear. Drove car from SF area to LA over the grapvine, about 400 miles (4000 ft pass) in 100 degree heat with the AC running and it did great.
                        So I guess the fuel pump was at least a contribiting problem if not the only problem.
                        Thanks to all for the input and help.







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