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Note: This problem appears to be specific to the 164 because of the compound brake pedal linkage
and the fact that the brake booster is mounted direct to the firewall, so 140 experience will
be little or no help.
I am in the throes of trying to take the failing brake booster out of the Mroon 72 164E that Kent gave me. It is headed south with fairly ineffective braking and lots of whistling sounds when I step on the brake. I have done this job before but it has been at least 20 years, maybe longer. I remember it as tedious but nowhere near impossible. But now I am over 70 and stiffer and not as strong as I used to be. (Maybe not as smart also.)
There are 4 studs in the back of the brake booster that on the 164 go through a box in the firewall and through the pedal mounting box inside to hold them together. Once you get the clutch pedal and its pivot out of the way the left two nuts are fairly easy to get to, and the top one on the right is not too bad although pretty high on the firewall. But the pedal box and its compound linkage and also the steering column are very much in the way of the lower nut on the right side so I have not been able to snake an assembly of socket extensions in there. Do any of you folx remember a trick to this that I might have forgotten?
Also I have 2 used boosters on the shelf. Is there any quick way to tell if one of the two has a good diaphragm? Looks like it would need a master cylinder bolted to it to keep all the vacuum from leaking out....
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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George,
You may want to shoot an email to Planetman and get his input. He works on 120/140/160 cars day in and day out. Plus, as I recall, he knows who rebuilds those boosters if need be.
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/user_data.htm?uid=1313
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Planetman (Eric Hamlet) did advise me to go to PBX in San José. I sent the booster to them
last week.
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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1974 164E. since we are on the subject, i sent my brake booster off to be rebuilt by cardone around $160. i didn't know of anyone else to rebuild it. the guy who installed it 'repaired' the master cylinder and the car had brakes for a month or so. apparently, he should not have just tried to reseal the master cylinder. the local volvo expert said the internals which would not have been repaired by this 're-seal' kit had allowed fluid to destroy the diaphragm...again. i found a used booster second hand locally and that with a new master cylinder gave me brakes for 6 months. it is now failing for the reasons someone mentioned, old rubber. i remember the local expert applied vacuum and when it held, on the used replacement, it was deemed functional and worked for a time...old rubber. i want to get the first unit rebuilt again. can someone pass on the pbx contact info. the local expert didn't have any love for cardone but couldn't give me any alternatives. are the 164E brake booster pretty reliable once fixed correctly?
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I am away from home but if you google Power Brake Exchange you'll find it.
You want the guys in San Jose, California.
The guys I've talked to say they are great.
In my experience if coupled with a nonleaking (rear seal) master cylinder they last many years. Leaking brake fluid is hard on them.
PBX powder coats the can as part of the service.
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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Hi walrus3,
I'm searching for my OEM Volvo 164 service manual as well as my 164 Haynes manual to help you here. No luck.
Its been some years I'd been in a 164. Too long for me. I'd like to own own a 164 with M410 transmission and moon roof.
I'm not entirely sure. I believe the vacuum chamber in the brake booster is a sealed chamber. The only port is where the vacuum line secures to the brake booster.
If you are able to secure a hose section that seals to one of your spare brake boosters and you can pull a vacuum that is equivalent to that it pulled by an operating, and awesome, B30 (as well as the cam lobe driven vacuum pump, if so equipped) and the vacuum holds for a period, I'd say it is okay.
However, if you spare brake boosters are as vintage as your entirely awesome 1972 164, I'd be a little wary of the (high carbon vulcanized) rubber (or synthetic rubber?) diaphragms inside the brake booster. You may want to research 164e brake booster rebuild kits or perhaps go for replacement?
The vacuum leak induced by the failing rubber diagrams in your brake booster culminates in an engine air intake system leak, unless your set uses the engine mounted vacuum pump only.
You may want to inspect that vacuum pump, if so equipped. Like two rubber diaphragms in the brake booster, the vacuum pump diaphragm get stuff and brake. As you hear brake booster vacuum leaks, you have vacuum drawing off atmosphere through your leaking brake booster.
I can't visualize the brake pedal assembly and linkages under your 1972 164 dash. Sorry. I'll look for my 164 service manuals as I can. This may take some days. Sorry.
I'm sure by then a hundred Volvo 164-ownin' brickboard folks shall have you an answer soonest!
Brickboard folks?
Hope that helps you.
Questions and comment, please?
Sure Happy Its Thursday (all day long!)
MacDuff
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Sig me:(Wishing I'd bought that 1975 164e in the San Francisco sunset district in 1988-89. It was a shiny golden Volvo 164 with supple and lush black leather interior and the big and beefy M410 manual transmission and moon roof. A relative got in the way. The relative had drunkenly killed his navy blue 1973 164e {hardtop, BW35, burgundy leather interior} in about 1984 and resented the notion I'd own a 164e, ever.)
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I've got the manuals. The pix are accurate enough. Just that one darn nut that I can't seem
to get a wrench on well enough to turn because of space limitations.
Also because of the length of the stud in the back of the booster, if you use a socket,
it about has to be a deep socket but there is not room for that, and neither is there room to
turn a box or open end wrench. Normally Swedes are pretty gentle folk but I detect a streak
of Viking meanness in this design.
It was not a big enough vacuum leak to have much effect on the D-jet's idle but it was making
funny whistling noises when the brake was applied, as well as stopping poorly until the
brake pedal was pressed quite hard.
This is gonna be a fun job to put back together, too.
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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Mr. Downs,
Sorry for your bother on this with your 164.
Have you tried an offset or obstruction spanner (wrench), or a crow's foot wrench? With actually seeing the accessibility to the nut you mention. Could you post an image? If not already or you don't have one of these, search for offset or obstruction wrench examples. A pawn shop specializing in tools may have these for you. Or you can go for the Harbor Freight or other tool vendor.
Have you considered a complete dash removal so you can get at the top of the bugger? I know it is a real bother, but when you look at the assembly and imagine how it is assembled, you may have to dis-assemble thing to get to the bolt.
Yet the nut is well below the dash assembly gauge display you say in your most recent reply.
Or you may need to disconnect and remove the gas-brake-clutch pedal cable and supporting rack assembly.
I'll bet the fabulous, if awesome, Volvo 164 assembly teams, following the manufacturing assembly instructions, installed the brake booster assembly before install the works in support of and the dash itself.
The D-jet injection efficacy suffers with any vacuum leak on the intake. What I'm not sure of, and I've seen it both ways, whether the left U.S. driver side of the B30-mounted vacuum pump drive vacuum to the brake booster only or pulls vacuum shared on the engine air intake and the brake booster. Did I mention this already in this thread?
I can't find my OEM Volvo 164 green manual, yet. I've futzed under the ->1972 140 and 160 dash and the 1973->+ dash areas. I may be recalling them in confused order.
Sorry I can't be more help.
Questions? Comments? Images?
Thank you,
Potassium Chloride
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Salt (NaCl) substitute.
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Hey Casey! (Casey Ell)
I did indeed get a set of crowfoot wrenches at my local Sears store for way too much.
Maybe I'll use the rest of them sometime.
I stuck the long socket extension in between the pedal cage and the steering column
which allowed me about 1/4 turn at a time and with about 4 iterations got the nut loose
enough to unscrew with a couple fingers. The clutch pedal pivot unbolts from the pedal
cage which is held to the booster by the 4 booster mounting nuts, so with the last nut
in place (not counting yours truly) it was still there.
This car does not have a vacuum pump and the size of the leak was not big enough to
adversely affect the D-jet system.
Now that the pedal box is out I suspect pix would be fairly uninformative.
The booster has probably already arrived in San José where PBX will refurb both it
and the master cylinder and powder coat the booster. Booster Dewey will not touch the
ATE booster.
Surprisingly I DID have a nice, slightly used light blue ATE booster box in which to ship it.
It was the box in which the new booster for my V70T5 arrived and WAS the right size!
So help is on the way. Need to remove rust from inner fender and repaint.
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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What if you were to remove the instrument cluster? Would that give a more straight in (albeit lengthy) approach?
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No, it is lower than that. I think I found something that might work though-
a ½" crowfoot wrench, 3/8" drive. I'll post tomorrow if it works.
The stuff that is in the way is so bad you can't even get a deep socket on the nut.
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George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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