Volvo RWD 900 Forum

INDEX FOR 10/2025(CURRENT) INDEX FOR 5/2010 900 INDEX

[<<]  [>>]


THREADED THREADED EXPANDED FLAT PRINT ALL
MESSAGES IN THIS THREAD




  REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

Handling is a bit "off' when cornering - how to improve the overall handling. 900 1995

Car
1995 945 250k. SACHS/BOGE Shocks and Struts installed last fall, poly cone bushings, poly endlink bushings, lower OEM-style lower chassis brace, IPD/Cherry Upper strut brace. Tie rod ends are new Moog. The front end was aligned over Thanksgiving weekend. Also running custom hub-centric spacers with BBC/Propus wheels. Stock front and rear anti-sway bars. Ball joints were replaced middle of last year with quality TRW units when I replaced the struts. My previous struts were Bilstein Touring. Going "back" to Sachs/BOGE was an "upgrade" in both quality and handling.


Symptoms
Slight rear-end sag. not too bad, but I can see it in the photo below.

My rear springs have 250k plus, this car was the "hauler" for several years (lumber, bricks, rocks, etc).

What I really "feel" is that the car dives a bit on corners. On left turn I can feel the right corner and side dip. I can also sense the perceptible shift of the car's center of gravity on such turns. I get a little bit of dip on braking as well.

What's Going On?
I'd normally blame the struts and shocks, but these are pretty new and don't show any signs of wear. That leaves me springs and anti-sways as the most likely culprits.

However, I'm kinda tired at throwing money at problems and (usually) hitting the issue with the spread. I'd like to make some real suspension upgrades here and stabilize the car's handling.

Are my springs to blame, or maybe the SACHS/BOGE struts are simply not up to the task any longer?

Any recommendations/ideas?











  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

    IPD Front Swaybar 900 1995

    OK I had every intention of going with a set of lowering spring first. However a pair of IPD swaybars appeared locally and for under $200 - so I got them instead.

    These are old IPD bars, not blu, but silver - just like the pair on my 67 Amazon Wagon - the IPD labels are gone, but the quality and style are unmistakeable.

    I put the front bar on after work and took the car for a spin. The change in handling was instantaneous. There's still a little dip at braking and on some corners, but all of my turns were *much* flatter. HUGE improvement. Easily worth the cash I paid.

    Since My car is a '95 with a live rear axle, I've got a thin rear swaybar in place. Unfortunately my new rear bar lacks any and all mounting hardware so I could not put it on. Hopefully, IPD will sell me a mounting kit for the rear end...

    Still planning on doing springs, but wanted to report the initial improvement.

    Thanks for tunning in.










    •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

      IPD Front Swaybar 900 1995

      The rear hardware is easily removed from most any 7/9 sedan. 2 nuts, 2 bolt/nuts, save the short bolt/nut with the brackets.

      But, the mount should be the same as the one you have if you have any rear bar, size of bar is not relevant on any I have seen.








      •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

        You're Right 900 1995

        Ha, you're correct!

        I downloaded the IPD instructions for the rear bar... and since I have a bar already (which they say is atypical for a wagon), I have everything to mount it. My 122 had a set of clamps but the 940 (now that I've been under there) seems to have everything.

        I think I've found a set of barely-used IPD lower springs as well...








        •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

          You're Right 900 1995

          You're in for some 'amusement', as the car will be very Very stable on the highway, but too much for me on rough roads. For interest, some say the big rear bar can promote oversteer, where the rear comes around pretty fast.

          I'm very interested to hear your take on those springs, if you do them.








          •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

            You're Right 900 1995

            At the last minute the seller tells me that they are 240 springs..

            so.. no go.

            May still go with a pair of overloads. I need to let the new handling "settle-in" before I muck with it much more.








  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

    Mixed springs? 900 1995

    That's some great advice guys. Thank you!

    Guess some IPD springs are in order. Anti-sways if I can swing it.

    Would I lose the normal carry capacity with lowering springs? I do haul with this car on the weekend, but it's a DD weekdays.

    I was thinking some overloads in the rear and something else up front. Folks on TB cut springs, but I'm not too excited about doing that.

    I don't encounter speed bumps too often, but the roads here can be poor. My 68' 130, with Billy's and Lowering springs was pretty rough, but survivable. Handling was amazing.








    •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

      Mixed springs? 900 1995

      Lowering springs have a higher spring rate - the force required to compress a specified distance is higher - so they act like overloads springs except that the body of the car is lower to the ground. In fact the rate is probably higher than overload springs.
      DON'T cut springs - reducing the numbers of coils to achieve a higher spring rate is not the way to go.
      My 140 was still nicely compliant with IPD springs, certainly firmer, but still good. Keep in mind that sway bars also contribute to ride quality, and the stiffer they are the harder the ride, except when both wheels encounter the same bump at the same time, like a speed bump.
      Install the springs, get it aligned, see what happens. Then make a decision on the bars.
      Good luck!








  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

    Handling is a bit "off' when cornering - how to improve the overall handling. 900 1995

    Good tires`are definitely key. Bear in mind that if you put in wider sway bars or stiffer springs the handling will be better. The tradeoff is that the ride will be stiffer. I put sport springs in my Jetta and going over speed bumps would jar your fillings loose....:)








  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE Replies to this message will be emailed.    PRINT   SAVE 

    IPD antisway bars, without a doubt .... 900 1995

    re your comment, "...Stock front and rear anti-sway bars...."

    This is the first thing I replace, with IPD's stuff, when I upgrade a stock Volvo I've just bought, after addressing the obvious needs such as fluid changes, etc. (full disclosure: I buy 240s, but the concept is the same).

    Along with the bars and their mounting bushings (poly), I also upgrade the bars' endlink bushings and links. The car is better balanced and corners flatter, and responds better (faster) to steering inputs. At the risk of sounding like an IPD commercial, IPD antisway bars are the biggest improvement you can make for the dollars spent, and the second biggest improvement in handling at any cost (the biggest, cost-no-object being an upgrade in tires, but most Volvo owners are relative cheapskates* when it comes to tires, so I always find myself upgrading these, too, on a newly purchased car).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    * re my statement, "cheapskate" Volvo owners.
    Okay, I can rationalize their viewpoint, even if I don't agree and personally can't live with their reasoning. I know that when an ordinary owner of a utilitarian, ~20+ yr old, car sees hundreds of ads, from dozens of makers and discount outlets, for H- or even cheaper S-rated bargain tires, it's hard to swallow hard and buy a set of really sticky (and lower-mile lifespan) W-rated performance tires that may cost $125 per tire, a total investment that's in many cases a large portion of the total market value of the whole car.
    But you really do get what you pay for. And given that those tires are really the bottom line in being all that's between you and an accident, you have to think about what it's all worth -- all your fancy springs and shocks, suspension bushings, swaybars, and even brakes won't do much if the tires are subpar, since your tires' traction can be the true weak link in all you do to upgrade handling. Personally, I use summer-only high performance tires for three seasons, and serious snow tires for the fourth season. But that's me.









  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

    Handling is a bit "off' when cornering - how to improve the overall handling. 900 1995

    You do not mention what tires you are running.

    What impact do the spacers have on stress and wear in the suspension? Have they moved this transition to a place where you notice it more. Without doing some testing, could the problem be that you are now going somewhat faster?

    Can you borrow a set of stock wheels that have performance tires on them - some enthusiast may be interested in a swap as an experiment.

    Four or five years ago, Road & Track did a +1, +2, +3 test with a BMW. They did skid pan and lap times on the track. They used the same tires in each case.

    The fastest? The stock wheel size! They asked a BMW engineer to explain the strange results - his pragmatic reply - We designed the car with that size wheels in mind.

    Road & Track concludes that tire performance was a bigger factor than wheel diameter. Someone gets bigger wheels and better tires and incorrectly credits the bigger wheels for the improvement.

    I have some Yokahama Prada Spec 2s on my 855R and they are actually sticky - you would not believe what they look like if I drive across some dirt, they sometimes actually have acorns stuck to them,

    R & T also mentioned that many performance tires have poor load ratings - not good for wagons.
    --
    '96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 485,000 miles put on 9 bricks








  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

    Handling is a bit "off' when cornering - how to improve the overall handling. 900 1995

    Shocks are designed to dampen the action of the springs - that's it. They can be stiffer in rebound or compression as one selects them, but the spring is the component that dictates vehicle response.
    Sway bars act to transfer some of the force acting on one spring to the other side, usually in compression. So the left spring will be compressed on a left turn. Volvo uses flimsy sway bars to allow weight transfer, which is a good thing in slippery conditions. Stiff bars can make for exciting handling in such conditions.
    So that leaves the springs. Stiffer springs, with a lower ride height, will absolutely transform the handling, all else being the same. Stiffer springs usually require better dampening, but you've got that covered. Stiffer springs allow for reduced sway bar stiffness ( in general Euro cars tend to stiffen springs, domestic tend to stiffen sway bars).
    I've lowered a few cars with stiffer springs and never been disappointed. IPD springs in an old 142S I had, with Monroe shocks and a marginally stiffer R-sport front bar made a BMW killer out of that car. Incredible.
    So from your description, I think you need stiffer springs. And an inch of lowering changes attitude, literally and figuratively...








  •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

    Handling is a bit "off' when cornering - how to improve the overall handling. 900 1995

    Well, I guess it depends on what you are looking for, right? As set up from the factory, which is what you have with some minor upgrades, the car is pretty soft. I put the IPD anti sway bars on my 945 years back, it's a really nice improvement in turn in and overall responsiveness, but it's still soft, the front end will dive during braking, etc. For everyday, it's a nice compromise. I don't have any experience with a lower/stiffer 940, but the IPD lowering springs and the Bilstein HD's on my old 240 were awesome. Again, depends on what you want. Good luck.

    Mike








    •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

      Goal: flat(er) cornering without gravity shift/body roll. 900 1995

      I really want something that doesn't shift so hard to the side when I'm turning. It's a daily driver and doesn't run around with a full load, yet the "shift" is really noticeable.

      I touched on this same issue last month when I started asking about rear end sag but I wasn't asking all that much about handling. Rear spring replacement is easy but the front's will be a bit of a weekend undertaking, so I'm hoping to narrow the problem before I take the front suspension apart. Some uncommon factory braces (hockey sticks) were suggested, along with a new swaybar

      Guess I'm just not entirely clear on why the car would be shifting around so much when the struts are still so new. Even "soft" struts should still dampen the spring action on corners and brakes - so even worn spring shouldn't change all that much, that quickly - or maybe they would?

      The Propus wheels also raise the car up a little bit. I'm wondering if the taller wheels have moved the center of gravity above the factory limit resulting in the "body roll" feeling that I've been sensing








      •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

        Goal: flat(er) cornering without gravity shift/body roll. 900 1995

        7/9's have a lot of roll. See this thread at last year's Davis/Sac autocross.

        http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=4130051&postcount=194

        The gold 9 sedan has progressive rate lowering springs, IPD bars, camber mod, and other suspension bits. Not sure if it has an upper brace. The red wagon I don't know about, unfortunately, but you can see how much they roll. A wagon is 200 lbs heavier, and the weight is located higher.
        Larger swaybars will help. Stiffer and/or lower springs will help. Shocks will not help as much, as roll is a result of suspension design. The hockey sticks will not help with roll, but with turn-in precision.

        I should be going this year, it's next wknd, and I'll have a ride in one fast 745 with a lot of suspension mods, with Koni's. This year's course is a lot bigger and faster, I may be too far away to get good pics, but I'll try to take notes of exactly what mods are on which cars and match to pics. I also want to get a better idea of what route to go, to get as much cornering without sacrificing ride quality. I am hoping to get a ride in a car with slightly cut springs, and one with lowering springs, to see what the effect is.

        Interesting that the Sachs/Boge seem better to you than the Bil touring, I have the latter on one car and a set of Sachs I have not put in as I wasn't sure of the effect.








        •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

          Goal: flat(er) cornering without gravity shift/body roll. 900 1995

          The billy touring shocks were an "upgrade" that performed worse than stock. even with new cone bushings these things altered the handling for the worse. Major diving on stops, weird cornering, poor handling overall. Major disappointment.

          The fit in the car was really poor as well. Rear shocks were slightly wider and had to be levered into place. The gland nuts didn't fit completely and couldn't be tightened down securely over the struts. The bump-stops wouldn't fit over the strut shafts either.

          Overall, they were wasted money start to finish. Would NEVER recommend buying them. Maybe I got a bad set, it was enough to make me swear them off forever. It was also the first of many seriously disappointments with FCP "quality' parts.








          •   REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE    PRINT   SAVE 

            Goal: flat(er) cornering without gravity shift/body roll. 900 1995

            Wow, those are not good results. The gland nut, on some it does not thread all the way down so maybe it was as far as it could go. The bump stops, on the HD they are internal so the originals are not used, but I am not sure on the Tourings.







<< < > >>



©Jarrod Stenberg 1997-2022. All material except where indicated.


All participants agree to these terms.

Brickboard.com is not affiliated with nor sponsored by AB Volvo, Volvo Car Corporation, Volvo Cars of North America, Inc. or Ford Motor Company. Brickboard.com is a Volvo owner/enthusiast site, similar to a club, and does not intend to pose as an official Volvo site. The official Volvo site can be found here.