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So Old Blue (1987 245) died on me last week. Only 436,000 miles. Had to get her towed home. Got out my Bently's and did the troubleshooting. Switched the fuel pump relay from my 93 (running fine) to the 87. Still no start. Replaced main fuel pump and re-did rotted wiring harness to the main fuel pump. Pump is not making the preliminary "whrrrr" sound when key is turned to "on". Of course checked all fuses prior to replacing parts.
Have spare ECU - switched it, still no fuel pump noise and no start. Fuses still good. Getting 12 volts to the fuel pump harness under the rear seat when cranking but still no start and no fuel pump "whrrr"...
Anyone have suggestions?
TIA,
RP
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RP '87 245 (Ol' Blue)401,000 mi, '93 245 (Ruby)263,000 mi, '02 BMW 325, '98 Mustang Cobra SVT, '87 Harley Heritage, 2003 Anniversary Edition Corvette Convertible, and a 2003 Anniversary Harley Road King w/Sidecar
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10 volts does not mean everything - you need current to spin a motor.
Try running a wire directly from the battery and put your meter in the circuit to measure current,
Wiring can corrode internally - one strand can give you 12 volts but will not run the pump.
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'96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 485,000 miles put on 9 bricks
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How do you check fuses? How do you check the 12 volts at the pump harness? (I think you are on the right track, but I'm concerned your methods may be misleading you.)
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Never put both feet in your mouth at the same time, because then you won't have a leg to stand on.
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Hi Art - I'm using a DVM to check voltages and continuity. When cranking I have 12V to/at the main fuel pump.
If I spray starting fluid down the intake snorkle she will fire up for a second or two but then die so I'm fairly confident ingnition circuitry is good.
Broke one of the fuel line loose on the manifold and not getting fuel.
OBTW - changed fuel filter when I did the main fuel pump. Thought she might be hard to purge the air but have cranked her enough that I don't think that's the issue.
B/R,
Randy
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RP '87 245 (Ol' Blue)401,000 mi, '93 245 (Ruby)263,000 mi, '02 BMW 325, '98 Mustang Cobra SVT, '87 Harley Heritage, 2003 Anniversary Edition Corvette Convertible, and a 2003 Anniversary Harley Road King w/Sidecar
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Just put a jumper wire on the left side of the fuses of four & six to run the pumps.
Make sure you put the wires on the main pump correctly, as they are polarity sensitive.
I thumbed up a post on this thread as sound advice to remember about voltage readings without an ampere reading taken, when nothing happens.
Phil
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I was beginning to think it was my bedside manner, Phil, but Randy hasn't logged back on the board since early Sat. morning.
Meanwhile I've given a lot of thought -- not to Randy's puzzle -- but my approach to it. While I know his method has a flaw, as 2+2 cannot in all likelihood equal 5*, trying to discover what that flaw is and help him past it would be useful to him in every subsequent electrical puzzle. Troubleshooting skills will find the break in the circuit, not just test the pump.
Yeah, running a wire from the battery seems to be the mechanic's favorite wiring troubleshooting technique. I imagine sometimes they get some sparks. Just because I never use that method doesn't mean it isn't appropriate for Randy. The concept here is not measuring current (that's a real risky step for a once-a-year meter user) but measuring voltage under load. By my way of thinking, a meter user should have that concept down pat before ever switching his meter to the ampere scale.
Randy said he was getting power to the FP harness under the rear seat while cranking. What I want to know, to help, is did he pull the connector apart to measure the power, or did he back probe the joined connection. That's the difference between measuring voltage that could be conveyed through a piece of green goo corrosion and measuring voltage actually delivered to the load.
*voltage to a new pump; pump doesn't run
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
"The future ain't what it used to be."
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Hi Art,
I do not think it is any kind of bedside side manner problem. He is probably busy doing something else for some one else as I have been. I have been absent from the board as I have been out of town and out of my routine of home life.
My post was my attempt to help him keep the circuit live to run the pumps and fill the fuel filter. He can also use the wiggle and twist method to check connections along the way. The thumb up on Sousa’s post was to highlight the fact you are proposing he has. I agree that running a battery wire does not locate the problem it just bypasses it or can back feed something like a ground as you mentioned.
I can understand your frustration about lack of response from posters that start the thread with a problem, are willing to stir things up to learn and those that just want an “instant pudding” fix.
By the way, I just got around to looking over my 1984 car two weeks ago while changing antifreeze and cleaning the flame trap. I found that the wiring harness was repaired by the PO which was ten years ago already. It has a few feet of split loom in two places. One is under the manifold and the other down under the crankshaft. Appears to be a nice job on the joints with wire ties well spaced. I forgot to get back to you on that, sorry!
I need to come up with a better way to keep track of my fleet of wheels. I know I changed the water pump once, belts and antifreeze when I got the car. I just cannot remember or made note of it as if I changed the antifreeze somewhere before the v-belts two years ago. I use the good GO5 Zerex stuff but I am afraid I may have pushed it a bit even though I have only put 55k on it in eleven years.
Do you use some sort of program or log book method to track your cars?
I recently had to change alternator brushes on my 86, while on a short local road trip and that should have not happened. I checked the 91 prior to my next much longer 1400-mile trip. They were very short and that saved my brain some worries, trust me!
Phil
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Thanks for the reply Phil,
James' approach is a positive step, if you don't mind the crooked pun, and I believe it is indeed what most of us want -- not a bunch of nit-picky Perry Mason questions anal in detail, which look concocted to expose our manhood. Just a quick suggestion to move us off of TDC.
Keeping track of the fleet: I recall starting a thread on that subject years ago, polling for other multi-Volvo owners' techniques. At the time I was hoping to find someone had already devised a database schema allowing the owner to search by system category, as well as car and date. Instead, I found some existing apps more or less oriented to a one-vehicle oil changer. As usual, the good ones were not free.
My method is a 25-yo habit of devoting a small spiral notebook to the car, and when I heard about the amazing longevity of the Volvo, I made sure it was thick. Each service event is headed by date and mileage; each part actually replaced, rather than adjusted or repaired is highlighted by drawing a box around it. That's it. PITA to use for preventive maintenance.
The notebooks do not go in the glove boxes. They stay in the shop.
You probably would like to have something you could search by system, i.e. select lighting by car and immediately know how long those 9004's have been in your headlights. Or engine mechanical for the timing belts and seals. The system categories are neatly arranged by Volvo, in the numbering of their green books and parts lists. 3xx for electrical, 8xx body and interior, complete with subcategories.
Yeah, my little notebooks did not warn me before I stretched out a fill of Dexcool for 9 years until the neck on the original Blackstone let go, forcing me to look at it.
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1364158/220/240/260/280/coolant_questions.html
Let us know what ideas you have for documentation. Obviously the thoughts are fresh in your mind.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
An elderly looking gentleman, very well dressed, hair well groomed, great looking suit, flower in his lapel, smelling slightly of a good after shave, presenting a well-looked-after image, walks into an upscale cocktail lounge.
Seated at the bar is an elderly looking lady.
The gentleman walks over, sits alongside of her, orders a drink, takes a sip, turns to her and says, "So tell me, do I come here often?"
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Thanks for your nice reply Art.
I was hoping that we were not two boats in the same river. I feel better that you have done that antifreeze thing too!
Guess if I cannot get a new organ like a younger brain, I will have to organize the one I have left.
Phil
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Hi Randy,
I was hoping for more detail. It is obvious to me the filter is not the problem, nor would I expect fuel to flow to the rail, if the pump is not whirring. However you say you have voltage to a new main pump when cranking. I need to know exactly how you made that determination. Exactly. Train me to do it the way you did it, e.g. hold the black probe tip against ..., the red probe tip on ..., while an assistant turns the key to kp III. Talk to me without assuming anything.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Draw your curves first and then plot your data!
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