91 B230f 740 sedan, auto, under 100K, mint & unmolested car, in the family for over 15 yrs maintained by myself only.
The car has no hitory of problems, it was perfect up until this started.
REX/Regina ignition

Symptoms:
Hard to start, basically you have to hold the throttle down a bit otherwise it will not fire up, or if it does, it does not hold idle.
Does this when cold. Hot restart after sitting a while is also the same problem.
If I start it immediately hot from hot it usually is a none issue.
When driving and the car gets hot, it does not stall at lights. If however you let it idle for over a minute or so, it starts to hunt downwards and is prone to stalling (almost like it suffers air loss).

The items I have looked at:
- replaced fuel pump relay
- cleaned and adjusted throttle body and TPS
- brand new crank position sensor (no change)
- took apart the coil and ignition amplifier module, cleaned up all the contact (Bendix / Regina) and put it back together - no change
- clenaed battery terminals
- no codes (1-1-1)
- tested sensors via OBD (crank sensor, TPS), both passed
- flame trap cleaned up and hoses
- if I pull off the vacuum from the fpr, idle stightly higher which indicates the fpr is likely ok
- no tears in the intake ducting
cleaned contacts at TPS, CPS, knock, air temp sensor
- new bosch wires, cap, rotor last fall
- new air filter and spark plugs
- gas in the tank
- pump runs for 1 sec when key in position 2

I have not checked:
- MAP
- knock sensor


PLEASE HELP!! I am fed up with this!

Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

Sunday April 8

I turned the key, car started right up (after not wanting to start at all yesterday), ran beutifully at around 1000-1100 RPM, then around 30 seconds later, just stut off - no stumbling at all - opposite to the other times were it usually stumbling and slowly idled low.

Now no longer fires up. For the heck of it I tested the crank sensor again through OBD and the code shows that the signal is received, so not sensor related nor ground to ICU.

I pulled the return line from the fpr and no fuel comes out when I crank.

I replaced the fuel pump relay with another one (tested good, both are resoldered) and still no start. I cannot test spark at the moment, I am alone on this.

I checked the black wire coming from ignition amplifier behind coil to where the spade connects behind the left headlight, its super clean. I bypassed the grounds from engine to chassis and chassis to battery, still does not start.


Any ideas? Could it be fuel pump?

Thanks,
Greg
Any
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

I would jumper around your fuel pump relay and see if the pump will run. It could be dying once it gets warm/hot.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

This is exactly what I want to do based on today's findings:
- spark looks OK (I tested with plug out, spark OK, my tester is no good)
- fuel comes out of regulator when the line is primed (key poisiton II), however nothing when the car is cranking.

So... need to bypass relay.

How do I do that? I have a spare, would like to run a switch through it while it is in the car. Is there a schematic anywhere?

thanks,
Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

Ahhhh that is a critical piece of info there. Fuel pump primes in KPII but then does not get voltage and or ground during ignition sequence. Search the site for "lucid start run sequence" for a diagnostic. Bruce(AKA Lucid) is the man when it comes to such a problem. Here's his old link on rigging a fuel pump relay to aid in diagnostics: http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1257469

Thanks.

So I did the test; I took a spare relay and wired (soldered) a wire to 87/1, 87/2, and 30, and joinded them.
With that modified relay in the car, upon putting the key to position 2, I hear the pump running to no end. I crank - no start.

Strange, I have spark, fuel, but it does not fire at all. took plug 1 out, its dry. What powers the injectors?


Thanks,
Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

Aleekat is correct. Its either the RSR or the RSR ground or the connector. If you have a "noid light" you can test more accurately.(See Lucid's "geezer stumped" post) Me personally, I would buy a new one as they are $20 or so at dealership and clean the crap out of the ground.

Whereis the connection for RSR ground? The cable harness has four wires off each relay...
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

radio suppression relay opens the injectors. Trying jumpering it.

http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#Radio_Suppression_Relay
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

It was the RSR.
About 1-2weeks ago I swapped the two, made no difference so I assumed that the problem was unrelated to it.

However I do not understand why i have two same relays side by side, the car has no electric fan.

Any idea what te other is for? Both were in desperate need of re-soldering. Original relays (sealed up underneath with the silicon ).

I also do not understand, why it is that with the RSR non-functional, there is no fuel when cranking.


Thanks to you and to Bruce.


Best Regards,
Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

You don't have an e-fan in front of the condenser?

no e-fan anywhere.
The car was stock R-12.

Any idea why the two relays (RSR + ?)
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

Thanks for your responses.
I would have done this but the pump runs for a sec when the ket goes into position II. I hear it - even when the car does not start.

I am suspecting this is the single pump style (in the tank).
Are they prone to an issue pulling up fuel (i.e. is there that little hose between the pump and the sock like we have on the bosch cars)?
Should I top up the tank? Its about 1/2 full now - not starting.

Let me know what you think - or if there is stil la reason to bypass the fuel pump relay.
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

My method of troubleshooting is to find out what is working and eliminate those items. So, jumper relay and if pump is running, pump is good. Pull plug and crank, blue spark, spark is good. etc. With 1/2 a tank, even if hose has a hole, it will still suck fuel. You said you're not sure about your spark tester. You really need to check spark. Like I posted before. You need spark, fuel, compression and spark at the right time. Is your timing belt turning? Pull oil filler cap and see if cam is turning when you crank. Non-interference engine so no damage if it broke or jumped time. You said you have Rex/Regina, just one pump in the tank.

http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EnginePerformanceSymptoms.htm#NoStartFrequentStallorHesitationBasicDiagnostics
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

Since now it doesn't start. Back to basics, fuel(plugs wet or dry?)Good spark? Compression? Spark at the right time?
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

no fuel.
plugs look dry.
Not sure what good spark is. I bought one of those hand held testers, with the small bulb, but nothing lights up. I tested it on my other car (while running) and still nothing lights up. So I do not know if its the testor or the car at this point.

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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

I would pull a plug and lay it close the metal. Should have bright blue spark. If no spark and no fuel, suspect crank sensor. If computer doesn't see spark, it won't trigger the pumps. If no spark, I would connect the plug wire directly to the coil and see if you get spark that way.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

I also swapped the two radio suppression - type relays, still no start.

Curious: the car has no electric fan. Why do I have two of these relays? I thought the other was the the fan.



Thanks,
Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

I am so fed up with this f_n car.
I just replaced the 4 plugs, same problem.
I put back last year's older bosch cap and rotor, car NO LONGER STARTS AT ALL.
I put back again the new cap and rotor, STILL DOES NOT START (does not fire at all).

Tested ground from block to battery- to chassis, all around 1 ohm so good.

Please help me or I will end up sending this to the stealership (never went to the dealer with any of my volvos for almost 10 years.


Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

I don't see where idle speed (with IAC choked off) has been checked or adjusted.

See my response to your earlier post.


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Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Hi Bruce,

Yes I checked the IAC (wrt your other post - thanks) - forgot to mention it in my post.
Specifically I checked the operation of the IAC off the car, cleaned it out with electronic spray wash, and also confirm it clicks when I plug the connector on the car.

So - this wold imply that the IAC is open when I try to start the car cold. However idle does not hold if I let go the throttle.
P.S. It would not be related to my tampering with the throttle body and adjustments, because it become lke this overnight (before I touched anything).

Hope you can provide any more help.


Thanks in advance,
Greg
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

You need to test it in the manner Bruce describes. Use a pair of pliers or such while car is running and squeeze off the tube the supplies make up air from the iac. There should be a marked drop in idle speed. I would add, when the car seems to be idling low, strike the body of the IAC with a couple sharp raps from a metallic object(like a small wrench). If the sharp raps bump the idle up, IAC is failing.

Agreed. That's a good way of testing the IAC. However the car is now in a state that it does not start at all...
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Greg Mustang - www.volvoclassic.bravehost.com

Oh Snap. Sorry I didnt read on to see you were back to square one again. A)Get fuel to the rail. That is, jumper the fuse to force fuel pump to run and check output. If you cant then suspect pump. Measure for +12volts at connector immediately prior to pump in trunk(backprobe connector)with someone else cranking. Report back.