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Hi,
I have a 1988 740 turbo wagon (b230ft) and it is currently in a parking lot. Car was driving fine and then I go to restart the car after an hour or so and it won't start. I have spark but no fuel (I pulled the hose to fuel rail and cranked with no fuel coming out). When I turn the car to the II position I do not hear the fuel pump come on but I do hear a click (maybe a relay or something). I also got to the in tank fuel pump and checked for voltage. I didn't get a reading but I may have had the meter on the wrong wire. Does anyone have any advice or suggusstions. Any help is appreciated.
Thank you,
Benton
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Hello
I was working on a friends 1988 740 turbo the other day ran fine then flat out quit. Pulled a noise suppressor relay from my car plugged it in and started right up.
Ron
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I just put in a used ecu and the car fired up immediately.
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Just curious, what was the number on the bad ECU?
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Thanks I'm glad that it worked. The number was 0 280 000 541 and the one that went bad also looked like it came out of a junk yard as well. I ordered the ecu I just put in off of ebay for $50.
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Is there a difference between a fuel injector ecu and ecu? There is another box that looks like the ecu by the passenger door but smaller. The plug also looks similar on this box and it is behind the insturment cluster. Does anyone know what this is or if it is a FI ecu.
Thanks
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I read that
"the car has spark"
Where does it have spark? Are you sure spark is at All the plugs? Hall sensors in lh2.2 cars can be erratic.
Also, Bruce's 'Start-run' may help, copied below.
Start-Run Sequence LH 2.0/2.2 Version
1) During starter cranking, the distributor Hall sensor sends timing pulses to Ignition Control Unit (ICU)
2-a) The ICU uses these Hall Sensor pulses to trigger the Ignition Coil (– terminal) to initiate timed sparks from the coil.
2-b) At the same time, the ICU also propagates the pulses to the FI ECU, to allow FI operation (no ICU pulses means no Fuel pumping).
3-a) The Fuel Injection (System)* relay (previously energized at Key On) powers the AMM, IAC, ECU, Injectors, and Fuel (pump) relay coil + side.
* The System relay is adjacent to the Fuel relay (same relay type).
3-b) When ICU pulses are received by the FI ECU, it "energizes" the Fuel relay by grounding the relay coil (– side) to run the fuel pumps.
When all these things work, the engine runs until the Ignition is switched off, which in turn shuts down the FI system.
Known trouble spots on '84...
• 25 amp blade fuse, fuse holder, wiring to (and at) battery +
• Fuse 13 corrosion, poor contact (+12V to Fuel relay coil)
• 3-pin plug under glovebox (Y-R wire carries +12V from Fuel relay to pumps)
• No spark=no fuel (Hall sensor or wiring at distributor)
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I'm about 90% on this. ECU passenger kick panel, FI ECU above drivers feet. Not interchangeable. If you're leaning towards the ECU, read this. Your's is 2.2
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFIComputer.htm
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Maybe I should start fresh with what I know and what I have done:
Car is driven for 30 miles turned off for an hour driven for another 15 miles turned off for an hour and won't restart.
1) Found car to have spark. 2) Found 12volts at fuse #1, 0 volts at fuse #11, 0 volts at main fuel pump with key at II, and 0 volts at in tank fuel pump with key turning. 3) Jumpered the relay which ran both pumps instantaneously (ignition at off position). 4) With relay jumped and both pumps running the car will still not start. 5) Installed new fuel pump relay but pumps do not turn on. 6)All wires that I can find involved in pumps all look fine, as well as the connection areas for fuses and relay. 7) Timing marks line up just fine and compression is also fine.
Agian any help or information is very much apprectiated.
Thank you,
Benton
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I would jumper the relay again. Get the pumps running. Attempt a start. Pull a plug and see if it is wet or dry. Then I would try some starting fluid and see if that starts. Put a long handled screwdriver on the injectors and have a helper crank it over. You should hear a noticeable clicking of the injectors opening and closing. If it won't start with starting fluid, then I would suspect too weak of spark or spark not at the right time. If you don't hear the injectors it may be the radio suppression relay, but I'm not sure if the RSR is bad, would you still get spark? I have no experience with a failed ECU, this is a quote from the FAQs.
"Bosch 595 or 556 ECU failure".
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#FuelPumpandFIRelayDiagnosticTests
Scroll down to " Why Does My Fuel Pump Relay Have a Soldered Ground from Bent 86-2 Terminal?
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Could the problem be a bad computer? I could not hear the injectors clicking with my brother cranking the engine. I have the lh-jetronic 2.2 one and a junkyard has one for $100. I know this is throwing parts at it but could the computer be the problem?
Thanks,
Benton
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Before I would throw $100. Look around your engine bay for the radio suppression relay(it tells the injections to open). The cooling fan relay and the RSR are the same. You can swap them or jumper the RSR.
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#Radio_Suppression_Relay
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I will try that right now. Thanks for all the time and help aleekat. I do have until next monday to get the car going so I have a bit of time before dropping the $100.
Benton
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I've towed the car back and have installed a new fuel pump relay also tested the in line fuel pump with the key at II at got 0 volts. Dumb question but the problem should be in a wire in between the fuel pump and fuse panel (I get 12 volts at fuse #1)? Any additional help is appreciated especially if someone has had a similar problem.
Thank you for any replys,
Benton
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On mine, fuse 1 is for main pump and fuse 11 for intank pump. Did you jumper around the fuel pump relay? Did the main and intank pumps run?
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My fuse panel is the same as yours. I put in a brand new fuel pump relay and did not jumper it or the old one. Should I still try to jumper it? and if so what will this tell me if the fuel pumps turn on while the relay is jumpered?
Thanks agian,
Benton
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since its a new relay, the connection(base) is suspect. Are you absolutely sure you have good spark? If no spark, the signal to trigger the pumps to run won't be there. Does your tach move when cranking?
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I have some new info about the car but it still won't start. Spark is confirmed and the tach moves while cranking. While jumping the relay for the fuel pump the pump makes a loud electrical type noise as soon as I either connect the battery or jump the relay connections. (Does this sound like the pump is siezed up or something like that because car will also not start with relay jumped? and I cranked for a long time) Some other things are all the female connections for the relay look good and wires to fuse #1 look good as well. One other thing to mention is that on fuse #1 the bottom terminal gives 12.4 volts and the top one gives 0 volts. Also, the car can run on the in line pump only right? Thank you to aleekat and everyone else for helping me with this, especially because its my only car.
Thanks,
Benton
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Main pump needs to run to start. Not sure what you mean by "electric sound". It is either running or not. Really sounds like your main pump is toast. You can pull the main pump connector, jumper the relay and measure voltage at the connector. If 12 volts, then wiring etc is ok. The sound of the pump running is pretty distinctive. You can feel it, it show be vibrating. If buzzing, then suspect the pump is bad. Original Pump? Plugs dry? After market pump, AirTec. others here have posted they don't like them. I have used several. $90 verses $200.
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The electric sound I am talking about is just like a loud humming sound and electrical device would make. Are you saying that if I jumper the relay that I should be able to feel the pump vibrate? Maybe the louder noise is the pump trying to run without actually pumping fuel. If this is the case would the in tank pump be the one delivering fuel to the fuel rail? (Because I still get fuel flowing with the relay jumped and cranking the engine.)
Thanks,
Benton
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Ok..you have me confused. Your original post was spark with no fuel at the rail.
Here's what you need..
fuel, spark, compression, and the spark at the right time..back to basics.
If you have spark, then ignition is ok.
If you have fuel, then delivery is ok.
That leaves compression and spark at the right time.
If your timing belt jumped, then you will get all the above, except spark at the right time.
Don't just throw parts on this..It's not rocket science.
And turbos hate any, any, any type of air leak..Did I say Any?
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I'm having the same problem. Was your car running fine or was it low on power. The turbo charger will tend to mask problems slowly arising. I say this because I think I have a faulty fuel pump due to a filter that I'm not sure of it's age. The car had some power, but you had to be light on the pedal. 200k on my 89 /740t/wagon. My relays clicking, but not sure if it's passing the voltage. It just stopped in the drive way the other day and I will be putting 12v to the high pressure fuel pump under the car today to see if it runs. The most strangest of fuel problem was when I own a 82/240/ Volvo. I could hear/feel the pump running and no start. Checked for fuel and saw nothing. Disconnected the pump and saw fuel at the inlet side. Installed a new pump and the problem was fixed. Being a motor-head for an early age I had to find the answer. Used a dremel cutting wheel and sawed the pump housing in half. What I found was a motor that ran fine, but the actual rotor pump that is driven buy the motor with a plastic type coupling with four little fingers. These fingers had broken off and would not drive the pump. So just because you might hear the pump motor running doesn't mean the pump is working. Remove and test for flow. Paul
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Yeah the car was running great before this happened, it really just came out of the blue. The pump is really loud when I jump the relay but I still get fuel coming out of the hose that goes to the fuel rail, and a lot of it. Good luck with your problem, I'll post anything that works for me.
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Jumping the relay made the fuel pump start up as soon as I connected the battery. Not to sure what this means but I am going to inspect the wires from the fuse to the relay and maybe something is messed up there. Worst case scenario if I had to use the car like this (and pull the fuse every time the car is off) would that be advisable?
Thanks
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Not safe. If your upside down in a ditch, the fuel pumps will continue to pump fuel. If you remove the box above the ashtray, you'll get better access to the fuse tray. It has some hold down clips that just push sideways to release the fuse tray. Then you can pull the tray out and turn it over. The wiring harness is long enough to pull it somewhat out. I suspect one or more of the female contacts where the relay seats has push itself down and the relay isn't making good contact.
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Since you have spark, I would suspect Fuel pump relay. FAQs covers how to jumper around it and see if the pumps run. Also check your fuse for main pump.I believe it's #1. Many have been know to melt. Car will run on main pump only, not on intank pump only.
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Thanks for the response. I checked the fuses, 1 and 11 I think. Will jumping the relay be good enough to get me home 15 miles away?
Thanks,
Benton
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In a car this age, it's just as likely to be an actual fuel pump failure, or a fuse block socket failure, as it is to be a fuel pump relay.
That said, the fuel pump relay is the #1 part that causes these to not run. If you can use a soldering iron (or buy one at Radio Shack for $10) you might be able to open yours up and fix it. Re-soldering each connection inside it can resurrect a dead relay.
It's white, rectangular, and about 1/2 the size of a pack of cigarettes. Part number on it is 3523608, and the Volvo ones have a date stamp. (Replacements might not.)
Start there, look at the socket it's plugged into if you can, and check around fuse 1 for melting as well.
The fuel pump lives right underneath the driver's seat, up on a little tray with the filter. You can tell if its running by listening or putting your hand on it- but if the car won't start, it'll take 1 person turning the key and 1 person touching the pump to determine this. My guess is, it'll be silent. Your job is to find out why.
Good luck!
--Rob Bareiss, New London, CT
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--Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: 1992 244 240K ::: 1990 745GL 289K ::: 1990 745T 266K ::: 1989 244GLT Custom 271K
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I would think so...but at your own risk. Make sure it's just not a thin wire for jumpering. I do believe there is an error in the FAQs. When I jumpered mine with key off. The pumps starting running right away. Pretty sure pin 30 is always hot.
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