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I replaced the timing belt and pulley tensioner about 300 miles ago and am not quite sure if I did everything right.
Problems I've been having:
1) After belt change the rpm went up to 900rpm (manual transmission)
2) Poor performance, feels a bit sluggish (I have the b320ft engine)
3) Poor gas mileage, around 20miles/gallon mixed driving (I usually get around 23-25 mpg mixed driving)
4) Sounds like backfire while downshifting (but may not be a new problem)
Why I think I did the timing belt change correctly:
1)When I put on the belt I alligned all the marks (and after running engine and positioning the engine to tdc, all marks remain correct)
2)Timing light shows correct timing at 12 degrees before top dead center (however it almost looks like 13 or 12.5 degreess btdc, hard to tell exactly)
Does this sound like I messed up somewhere or am I just convincing myself I screwed up? Has anyone had similar problems? Any information is very much appreciated. Also, thanks to everyone that has helped me in the past, probably the reason my car still runs.
Thanks,
Benton
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All seems good now but I had driven 400 miles, then re-installed the timing belt, now driving again. Do I need to re-tension in another 100-200 miles or just leave it alone?
Thanks,
Benton
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posted by
someone claiming to be fixit2002
on
Tue Feb 7 07:36 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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Reinstalling it after 400 miles would indeed accomplish the same thing as doing a retensioning. So you should be good-to-go so to speak. Although you can still pop the rubber cap out after a few hundred and loosen the nut a couple of turns and retighten it again just for peace of mind. After all it's just a ten minute operation at the most.
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If you meant that you retensioned it at 400miles. You should be good. Most manuals say anywhere from 400-600miles.
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I am pretty confident that I fixed the timing issue I made for myself. I must have spun the crankshaft sprocket(gear) a half a tooth while installing the timing belt. This makes sense because while putting a timing light to it it showed a much clearer 12 degrees btdc. When I had all the problems the light reading was hard to tell if it was at 12 or 13 degrees. Anyway put the gear to the correct position and the engine seemed to run better. I could not leave it running for long though because I made a pinhole in the radiator. On to the next problem I made for myself.
Thank you very much to everyone that has given me advice and etc. over the last week.
Benton
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Hi, I finally got to looking at the timing belt and harmonic balancer. The camshaft timing marks line up spot on with balancer at tdc. I haven't pulled the bottom cover to look at the crankshaft marks. But with the engine running the harmonic balancer does not seem to wobble but I can hear a squeal that sounds like it is coming from the balancer. Also, the harmonic balancer looks to be in good shape however it could look like it is drying out a bit and possibly some cracks in only a few places. Overall it looks in good condition to me. Does this sound like I need to replace the harmonic balancer (given the squeal)?
Any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Benton
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The squeal may be one of the other belts not tight. You can spray water on each belt and see if the squeal goes away for a minute will narrow down if it is in fact a belt. Chalk a line across the crank pulley. Until you confirm the crank timing mark, then look at the cam mark to see if it is off.
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Benton,
Check out this link for nice illustrations of T-belt alignment:
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/B230FTimingBeltAlignment.htm
In particular, look at the second photo from the top that shows the cam indexing mark. Double check that you have the sprocket aligned with the mark that is back toward the rear of the belt cover (kind of hidden if you are a tall person and the car isn't jacked up very far) - not the little molded circular mark on the front lip of the cover. I'm 6'-3" and made that mistake the first time I replaced the T-belt.
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Thank you for the response and link, I am about the same hieght so maybe I made the same mistake. When you installed the timing belt wrong did you check the timing with a timing light? If so did it give you an accurate reading? Also did all the marks you could see still line up after running the engine? I am going to get to this Friday night so hopefully I do it right this time.
Thank you,
Benton
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Confusing those two marks puts the cam off about two teeth. When I made that mistake, I could tell the minute I started it up. It "just didn't sound right". Plus, as I recall, it didn't want to take the throttle and rev quite like it should. I don't remember if I even tried driving it.
I never had reason to use a timing light on that car it as the ignition timing was ultimately controlled by the computer anyway. As far as the valve timing, looking at the index marks on the crank and cam is all you have to do - it's either on the money or it's not.
By the way, if your distributor is driven off of the rear end of the cam, then you don't need to concern yourself with the timing of the intermediate shaft. On those engines all the intermediate shaft does is drive the oil pump. So if you find you DO have the cam out of time, you don't need remove the crank damper or the lower belt cover. Just put the crank damper on TDC, unload the tensioner, and slip the belt off of the can sprocket so that you can get the cam back on its mark. (This assumes that you have verified your your crank damper is still sound and not spun its outer ring.) If, however, your distributor is mounted on the side of the block, then it's driven by the intermediate shaft so you would have to tear things down further get everything in sync.
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Thank you for the response. Come to think of it when I started the car after the belt change I told my brother "that doesnt seem right". Anyway, I do have the distrutor at the back of the cam. Just so I understand correctly when I pull the belt off I should turn the camshaft to line up the marks to correct the timing(assuming damper is good)?
Thanks again and thank you to everyone else,
Benton
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Yep. Make sure the crank damper as at TDC. Then turn the cam sprocket until the marks align. Then slide the belt back on the cam sprocket and release the tensioner to tighten the belt. Once the belt is tight, re-check both the crank damper and cam sprocket to make sure they are both still on their marks. Sometimes when you apply tension to the belt, the cam will creep off its mark a tooth. If that happens, retract the tensioner, pull the belt off the cam sprocket, move the cam one tooth (or whatever is needed), slip the belt back on, release the tensioner, and re-check the marks. Once it looks like you have it right, tighten the tensioner bolt to 36 ft/lbs. Then rotate the crank two revolutions (which will rotate the cam one revolution) and make sure both the crank and the cam come back up on their marks simultaneously. If they do, then you got 'er.
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"you don't need remove the crank damper or the lower belt cover. Just put the crank damper on TDC, unload the tensioner, and slip the belt off of the can sprocket so that you can get the cam back on its mark."
This is great advise. Had to do this when my cam sprocket sheared the pin and moved about 5 teeth.
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posted by
someone claiming to be fixit2002
on
Tue Jan 31 08:14 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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I'd say use a timing light to check your installation. I believe the '88 distributor can be adjusted. But be aware though that the vibration dampers do seperate on the older engines and the outer mark may not be accurate.
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I have already put a timing light to it and show approxamately 12 degrees btdc.
As I remember I cannot adjust timing by turning the distributor. Thank you for the reply, and do you mean that the vibration dampers were installed incorrectly?
Thanks,
Benton
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You wrote that your car has the black knob (called "idle air bypass screw") that can adjust idle speed. I'm usually on the 240 forum, not here, but I think that this applies to both cars: the loss of the black knob feature coincided with the loss of an adjustable distributor (because the loss of manual idle control and ignition timing adjustment occurred together), when the systems changed from LH2.2 to 2.4, and the ignition system changed from Volvo/Chrysler to EZ116K in '89 (for 240s, but don't know the years for 700s).
Shorter version, if your car doesn't have the crankshaft position sensor (CPS) on top of the bell housing, you can definitely manually adjust your distributor.
The CPS took over the function of the ignition timing from the innards of the distributor (the hall sensor), and with the ECU taking over the matter of adjusting timing (with engine speed, load and other factors that centrifugal weights and springs inside the distributor used to do), so with LH2.4, the distributor is now largely empty except for the rotor and cap.
So on your '88 700 (if it's like the 240s) you can still try adjusting your ignition timing. Be aware, however, as others have pointed out, that an old vibration dampener is prone to slipping* the outer ring (on which the timing mark lies) and therefore giving erroneous timing with a strobe. Actually, if you've never replaced it, you should have done that (along with the belt tensioner) when you did your timing belt.
[In fact, ignition timing mark migration is the least concern -- they are known to spin off and either wreck your timing belt cover or, going the other way, wrecking your radiator.]
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Thank you for the response and suggestions. However, I do not believe that I can adjust the timing by way of the distributor. I will look into it further though. As for the cranskshaft pulley timing mark, if it was giving a false reading how likely is it that it would read the correct timing? Not saying that it is not possible but just seems odd. I will look into the vibration damper to see if it is wobbling.
One last thing, can you give me any insight into why the engine is not operating properly after the timing belt change? Others have suggested the TPS and IAC valve but there was no change in operation after adjustment and cleaning.
(The car is a 1988 740 turbo wagon with manual trans. and b230ft engine)
Thank you,
Benton
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re: "...However, I do not believe that I can adjust the timing by way of the distributor...."
Does your distributor have the little plug going into the side (into the metal part, just below the cap)? That would be the connections to the Hall sensor. Do you have a vacuum diaphragm attached to the distributor? That would be for the linkage to the advance/retard mechanism. If you see these, then you don't have the CPS on your bell housing, and you can manually adjust the basic ignition timing.
re: "...As for the cranskshaft [sic] pulley timing mark, if it was giving a false reading how likely is it that it would read the correct timing? Not saying that it is not possible but just seems odd. I will look into the vibration damper to see if it is wobbling...."
Not likely given it's showing a correct timing -- but keep this in mind for future maintenance. When they go, it sometimes can get messy.
re: "...any insight into why the engine is not operating properly after the timing belt change?..."
If it was running well before the change, and you didn't do anything else (absolutely certain) other than the belt, then it's most likely that you're off a tooth on one of your sprockets. Otherwise, it should be running well, and you find that it isn't.
The white stripes on a new belt can be off a little bit (a fraction of a tooth) even with Volvo-brand belts (which I always use), and I have less faith in some other, cut-rate brands, but you shouldn't totally rely on the stripes anyway. It's best to make sure the sprockets are lined up, comparing their marks (dimples, which I like to paint white) to their corresponding marks on the seal carrier (which I also paint white when I pull them off to see their seals) -- though when the sprockets are put back on those on the lower two are tough to see, especially the bottom crank sprocket's corresponding mark because of the bent path of the belt.
Anyway, it's easy to get off a tooth when you're slipping on the new belt, so I like to double and triple check their positions, especially the crank's sprocket, before buttoning things up.
Although it means some work, I'd go back and take a look at the sprockets' alignments if you can't find another cause, even though it's a lot of work pulling the damper, etc., because you may not have a choice.
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Thank you much for the detailed response I very much appreciate that. I will look into the distributor but my manual says my timing can only be checked, with a timing light, and cannot be adjusted by way of the distributor. From the opening of this post I kept suspecting something like the belt being installed wrong was my running problem. The only other operation to the car during the belt change was fixing a broken tensioner bolt for the A/C compressor. So this weekend it looks like I will be re-installing the timing belt. I hope this goes better than the 1st time.
Thanks again,
Benton
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I have not seen in this thread, where the dist is; block or head? Or which system it is.
88 if Bosch is lh2.2, I don't know if Regina was out then. If it's Bosch then there is no CPS, it'd have a Hall sensor in the dist. If Bosch it'd have head mounted dist, if Regina I think but am not sure that it's block mount.
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I am almost sure I have the lh2.2 system and the distributor is mounted on the head (it seems). The distributor is mounted behing cylinder #4 and does not look like its attached to the block. I've tried to advance/retard timing by turning the dist. but to no avail.
Thanks,
Benton
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Fixit is referring to this: http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineMechanical.htm#Failure_of_Harmonic_Balancer
With engine running, look at the crank pulley. It should be running true. If it appears to wobble, then the pulley wasn't seated in the "nub". You can also put a chalk line across the pulley, and if it separating it will show up because the line will be broken.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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It sounds like you did it correctly. I would adjust the TPS and clean your idle control valve first. All covered in the FAQs. Is it a true backfire or a "puff puff puff"? The "puff" is normally TPS out of adjusment. What year?
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Hi, I just got done adjusting the TPS and cleaning the IAC valve with no effect on running condition. Everything seems to be the same as before. However, I did get the rpm down to 750 by turning the "knurled knob" on the throttle body inward. A question I have is could the TPS be cashed? While doing the TPS adjustment the click was very faint sounding (could barely here it click), is this an indication it is bad or is this normal?
Also, aleekat, or anyone else, is the TPS adjustment and IAC valve cleaning usually needed after a timing belt change or are you just giving me options for the symtoms my car has?
Thank you,
Benton
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What was the reason for timing belt change?
Timing belt change shouldn't affect the idle speed.
To properly set the idle on a 2.2. There is a non-connected wire(mine is on passenger side under the hood. You ground that out to set the base idle. It bypasses the ICV. Did you by chance have the defrost/ac on? That will increase the base idle to around what you are seeing. The computer on the 2.2s is pretty primitive. It doesn't learn, it doesn't cash. It just uses baselines established by volvo. BTW, turbos really, really, really hate any type of airleak. Did I say REALLY? An unlit propane torch is a good method to search for airleaks. When was your last tuneup? Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, airfilter etc...
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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I changed the belt because I noticed it running off the gears because of a bad tensioner pulley. Also, could not find the last time it was changed in the previous owners maintenance records so I thought it was a good and just idea. I have the heat on with no defrost and fan at 0. Last tuneup was around 5,000-6,000 miles ago.
I don't really understand how to use the torch to search for airleak, is that covered in the FAQ?
Thanks agian for the help,
Benton
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Using an UNLIT propane torch. Start the car, and move the propane gas around the intank manifold area, throttle body, etc. Any increase in idle shows an airleak. Do this outside please. Much safer than using carb cleaner, etc.
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The car is a 1988 and I am not sure if it is a true backfire. To describe the sound, it happens right after downshifting (most of the time in all gears) and sounds like a mid-range pitch kind of pop or two. Thanks for the advice I will adjust the TPS and clean the idle control valve. Is it normal/typical to have to have to do this work after a timing belt change?
Thank you,
Benton
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