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Just a short blurb: After nearly two years of work, my replacement heater valves for 75-91 240s are in. For details, mail me at dpsam at roadrunner dot com
Happy New Year to all.
DS
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This may be my problem also. It warmed up to about 60 degrees for one day here and though I had the heater lever all the way to the left in the coolest position hot air was still coming out. In the summer with the air conditioner on heat still comes out and I must always drive with the windows down. Is that lever adjustable behind the plastic face somehow?
Thanks! jeff
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When mine failed, it was impossible to 'turn off' the heat -- rendering the A/C almost useless during summers in the SE. I replaced it with the then-available little plastic, well, I'll call it a disc-valve. Required some hose reconfiguration. That one did the same thing as the original after a year or two of service. I finally installed a brass ball valve in the hose to the core that I can access by reaching behind the center console side panel on the passenger side. I just close off flow to the core completely in the early spring. Long about Dec. every year I crack it back open.
The old R12 system in my '82 was marginal in the southern heat. Driving it with the Ford (5.0L power) compressor seemed to make things a bit worse. Switching to R134 added to its woes. Unwanted warm coolant in the heater core -- another step in the wrong direction. Added to that I'm pretty sure the all of the vacuum valves that control air flow aren't working exactly as they should. Think I'll just start over with a matched system. I've decided to pull the entire Volvo HVAC system out and replace it with an integrated aftermarket unit.
--
82 242 5.0L; '10 Cayman S; '15 Honda Fit
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If you are posting about a 92, isn't yours a plastic valve?
Sure things can always come loose in just about anything shaken hard enough.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
When chemists die, they barium.
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posted by
someone claiming to be oldduke
on
Thu Feb 26 12:13 CST 2015 [ RELATED]
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hello art ben and other sages- as part of my desire toanticipate problems with the 240 and prepare myself with alternative solutions, iread this thread with interest. i have looked at the hot water valve on my 92 245 . i have replaced two since 68. both were manual hot water valves of a barrel type where a hole lined up with an open line allowing hot water from the block to enter the heater core. one was in a 56ford sedan controlled by a lever and a cable. this got stuck rusted and crapped out. replaced it with petcock type valve froma plumbing store, which screwed into the block .downside was you had to open the petcock under the hood when you wanted heat. i usually left it on for the winter. the other was a 64 dodge which wasa similar type barrel hot water valve butcontrolled by a vacuum hose to an actuater lever. of course the vacuum accumulator crapped and i replaced it with petcock valve spliced in the hot water hose tothe heatercore which was under the dash and was easier to engage. the dashlever andcable on the 240 seem tooperate the same way. the volvo valve looks like it works the same way with a lever . ithas a plastic body which does not impress me. think many heater valves like this could be found operational in junkyard tankers of of various makes and vintages. good idea or bad. thanks tons oldduke
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No, nothing I've seen beats what Dave Samuels has come up with.
Hey, I thought you were gonna go get your password back, oldduke!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
We're going on a class trip to the Coca-Cola factory. I hope there's no pop quiz.
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posted by
someone claiming to be oldduke
on
Thu Feb 26 19:11 CST 2015 [ RELATED]
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hi artben- thanks for following up. i must contact the webmaster in the earlier post to get my original password. good for you to remind me. do you have a picture of that new heater valve which may be the best, from dave at wagonmeister? thanks tons art, oldduke
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Oldduke - go to http://www.wagonmeister.com/#!240-replacement-heater-valve/c54p
--
82 242 5.0L; '10 Cayman S; '15 Honda Fit
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Hi David,
I am very glad you have taken the time to do this. I hope you recoup your costs.
I sit happily every day on one of your seat foams.
As it turns out I have also been experiencing binary heat. I am a bit confused (more than before) after having read all the posts to your message.
When I look at this part at IPD:
http://www.ipdusa.com/products/4934/101234-heater-control-valve-original-style
It is a picture including the funky white plastic part with the thin piece of tubing wrapped around it (is this the part with refrigerant in it that Phil refers to?). Meanwhile your part does NOT include this piece. Could you quickly explain whether your black plastic part just replaces the brass (or alloy) part. It might be just as easy to explain how the unit fails. (If you don't mind. I need to understand the problem better (as in which bit fails).
Thanks,
Rod
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Hi Rod,
While I'm sure Art and Phil can give a better explanation, here's my take: The old valve setup includes a capillary tube (copper on white thingy in the heater box) that monitors the temp of the air coming out of the heater matrix and headed for the ducts. It is my belief that the wax motor and cap tube are there to help compensate for the range of temperature created by the engine thermostat, however small that might be. Somewhere out there on the Brickboard is a post by an ex-Volvo tech confirming that, as well as another from someone saying it's bunk! Regardless, as the wax motor in the valve fails, not only does that range disappear, but all range disappears, leaving the temp either full hot or full cold. Better minds than mine cannot explain why, but rather than attempt to replicate a complex feature, my valve simply does away with any automatic compensation. It's just a manually controlled flow valve, as installed on vehicles for [insert large number] years. No capillary tube, no wax motor. I recommend that the old rubber grommet be reinstalled into the heater box without the capillary tube, and any opening sealed with silicone sealant.
Other than that, the beauty of my valve assembly is that it bolts in very easily, attaching to the upright that supports the vacuum bottle. If your car currently has the Ranco valve, everything else bolts right up, hose, cable--and off you go.
Hope the clarifies things. You can reach me with questions via the Wagonmeister website as this post is not notifying me for some reason.
Dave
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I disabled my heater valve last summer when I found it was mixing warm air even in the 'off' position making my a/c 'cool' and not cold as it should have been on my '86 240 sedan. I made it this entire winter without any heat and plan to install one of David's new style valves as one of my next projects. Missed his Christmas sale, but will get it anyway......Glad to hear the good reviews.
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I can attest to Dave's new valve development... its been a few years since I posted on the BB. Sold my '91 240 wagon (mistake) and bought a brand new '10 Subaru Impreza (2nd mistake). Honestly, it was a nice car but had several factory problems, tons of rattles, and was not easy to work on without diagnostics.
So got rid of it and picked up a mint '93 from an older lady who bought it brand new and babied it for 19.5 yrs until her kids made her sell it (she did not want to). It had about 195,000 km's on it, and had every record all the way back to the original purchase. She even had the child seat restraint bolt thing, and made me 'interview' for the car. It was great!
Her original plastic round style valve had just failed in the spring and she had a mechanic bypass it for the summer. When I bought the car, I couldn't have this so I checked out my options: a replacement of similar style made by scamtek or the older metal style with the coil dealy (made by Ranco I am told). First one was about $50, and the older, used one was about $150-200 on ebay with no guarantees of it actually working. Being the cheapo I am, I picked the plastic one... well it was a nightmare installing & leaked almost immediately. I likely was too rough and caused the seal within the arm/valve to spread a bit, but never the less it SUCKED.
Earlier in the same day, I came across Dave's Wagonmeister site and newly minted valve replacement after a while of googling & BBing heater valves. At first, I was stoked because I saved about $70 on the valve I initially went with...but after I installed that $50 piece of junk, I was very disappointed that I didn't see Dave's valve first! Long story short, I bit the bullet and ended up ordering his valve that night.
Once it arrived (quickly I might add), it was a breeze to install. Dave provided a great instruction document with pics, and the valve itself is very simple & built well. The only catch is that on the '93 you will need a different hose for the valve to firewall connection (older part # to fit pre-89 or around there... double check w/Dave if interested). I should have ordered this from Wagonmeister when I got the valve because I didn't and ended up having to go to the dealer due to time constraints. Thats a whole other story.
Now I can say after using the valve all winter, that it was the best $120 I've spent so far on the car (besides maybe a new AMM - another long story). I can actually turn the heat off! A complete miracle! I suppose when I think back to the 3 other 240's I've owned, this is the first one with actual heater control. Living in Canada (Toronto), we need heat a good portion of the year so I didn't really care... but its really nice on long road trips to be able to turn it down and stop sweating for a while! When it comes down to it, don't mess around with any of the other valves... just buy this one. Seriously. Thanks again, Dave.
On a side note, its been a damn cold year up here in the Toronto area and I've even made a trek to Mt. Tremblant in Quebec with the (new to me) car, which is about a 1200km round trip. The average temp was about 10-15'C below zero (just above zero 'F), the roads were snow covered, and I was staying at a chalet a good trek up the mountain. Needless to say, the 240 had zero issues and super hot (adjustable) heat! Best part of the trip was when some punk kid in the car park was making fun of my car trying to say it was the 'cheapest' car in the lot, but then decided a Honda Fit was cheaper. He asked me how old it was, and when he found out it was a year older than he was, it blew his mind! His comparisons were to brand new Audi, BMW, Acura, Benz SUV's, etc..(typical over-priced, upscale, ski family type vehicles). I'd like to see them in 20 yrs. I bet they won't be doing a road trip like that. Ha.
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Do you still have the child-seat restraint part? My son needs one for his 245.
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I know you are happy with being able to turn off the heat with summer just around the corner.
My question is after you open it up and get it warm do you have to keep sliding the cable to adjust for temperature changes. Outside climates change as I drive around in my country as it does not get slam dunk cold like where you live.
The original valve had the coiled temperature sensor and a bellows to do that. You set it and forgot it or at least for several years mine worked that way.
Now my wife is constantly opening and closing it. I just move it a pinch at a time when I am driving but even then when it swings to far, out comes the long arm of the law!
I went to the site and looks like a plastic "L" shaped ball or a vane type valve from the outside and that is it. A very manual looking affair for the bucks. Maybe a petcock off the office water cooler would work. Ah, Just kidding, as that surely would upset the Top Ramon people! (:)
Maybe I am a cheapo too or I like value for the effort to change it.
There are a gazillions of other cars with heaters out there, you would think that they would have valves as simple but with some acquired sophistication through evolutionary engineering.
Maybe that is the rub that Dave ran up against! It is probably patented by the auto makers, Ranco or something like that crap!
The world has only been marketing cars with heaters for eighty years, that area should be in the public domain by now! IHMO
Hey, don't get me started on disc brake backing plate configurations. All with almost identical amounts of friction surface areas applied to do the job! Not better, just different for the hassle of being territorial.
Hormones and money must win over brains it seems!
Whoops, I bump my starter, sorry!
Phil
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Phil, I am surprised you haven't looked into how that feedback works in the original heater. Isn't that sort of servomechanism right up your alley? No bellows.
It isn't a patent problem, it is the fact Ranco has moved on to the 21st century, and not interested in the tiny aftermarket presented by persnickety owners of 50-year old technology.
You might be able to fix your wife's binary heater if you are lucky enough the medium hasn't entirely leaked from the sensor/motor assembly. The cam is adjustable, and in Volvo's green book there's a suggestion to try this when the AC is seemingly being tempered by a trickle through the heater core.
I think new systems do not regulate water flow, but rely on proportionally mixing airflow.
Take a close look at the Ranco valve next time you have an opportunity.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.
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Actually Art, I have looked into repairing these valves. Looked, is the operative word here!
I have two of them in a box under my bench. One, is off my 78 that I replaced from Napa so many years ago that my brain does not want to scare the other half, that still is working, with that date in history!
Just a couple years ago, I snipped another one out of a junkyard car, hoping it might be good enough to put in one of the two cars that needs one. I mean, waiting, until it "really" needs one as in leaking!
Yes, this stuff is up my alley but the alley under that dash, does not have my name on it, yet! I am sort lazy that way. Nothing about being under there, raises the curiosity bar high enough for me, like it does you.
On the feedback statement, you are right that there is no true "bellows" but it does have an expanding "cylinder with sealed in piston" that pushes a lever and fulcrum setup to actuates the valves seal tipped rod.
If the sensing bulb or tube in our case still has its charge of gas (most likely a refrigerant) then an adjustment should bring the mechanism back into range. The mechanism works under quite a bit of spring pressure to allow a trip off point when shut down. I surmise that working the lever promotes a flat spot on the cam and causes the range to fall off. It the turns into a normal on/off valve. As my wife says it either on or its off. It does not help when she want heat like yesterday and wham over it goes either!
The fifty year old technology term you mention is cutting it short several years. Today's thermal expansion valve (TXV or TEV) is still the best "self powered" apparatus going for metering large amounts of refrigerant into a coil. The power head can be replaced without opening the system if it fails.
At first I had planned on tearing up the first one with the bad seal to see if I can make another seal for it as i believe the sensor still worked. I learn what ever I can from something bad, before I throw it away.
The sensing system will be kept if good and interchanges. I could possibly refilled one by making up a "Y" shaped process tube. I' ll pull a vacuum on the tube tosee if it holds first or why it does not. If its good or can be made good I will then fill the tube with a refrigerant. I pinch off the tube to shut it and solder it to seal it.
All this shoud replicate the manufacturing process.
I have been meaning to play with them by setting up a box with a thermometer in it. Getting some experience of how it really works on the bench.
I will use my heat gun or just a light bulb to preset the range of each new or old one before I'll ever try to conquer it down in those tight quarters, with an Allen wrench, that happens to come with running water!
I have also pondered the use of electronic valves you can find in Graingers and I am sure there are other better sources. I think a small servo motor to actuate even a manual valve is very feasible.
A simple controller, possiblly using the "ole time" Wheatstone Bridge circuit. I only know about it because I once repaired the circuit of a variable speed small Hardinge turret lathe before. It was another side job you end up doing for a very small company without dedicated maintenance personnel. My Dad's background caused me to try that one. You know, now that I think about it, it was a broken wire/ solder connection, just like our relays!
That circuit should be child's plays for you. The circuit has been around as long as TXV's. I know that these are all analog ideas. A step motion actuator motor uses a digital input but getting 90 degrees of rotation on a ball valve should be no sweat unless it takes a lot of inch pounds of torque to turn a ball valve of which I doubt.
With "I-Pad" type controllers going to cars, the mechanical thermostats used in refrigerators and ovens bowing down against electronic acceptance its the biggest reason for Ranco to drop making our type valves. There is a lot less tooling and skilled labor involved too.
Those tiny thermistors can be used for "silly" things like GM's individual temperature controlled vent outlets. Or some other sensors to activate a butt thumper, to wake up the brain!
(:) I imagine those promity sensors fit into recliners too! So I'll be awake ever time the wife get close or with a condenser mic, thump me if it hears me snore! (:)
You know, I am very weak in electronics but I know there is a way to translate or a jump around on this simple stuff but car makers never keep it simple. In fact they go out of their way to keep one foot in the air with model changes. All those combination black boxes with a fake expense tag from dealers called "exclusive." New luxury cars, no thanks!
I have been watching the growth of Ardurino, a programmable controller board company. I am sure "garage tweakers" will make more goodies simpler with their help. Radio Shack has even picked up on it and offer boards. They know they have lost customers (electronic tinkerers & those leather people) that made RS/ Tandy in the years past. America needs a different shots in the arm than what their find today. IMHO
My problem, time is not of an essence as much as, it should be.
I am either too cheap or too lazy to get all enthused, as I am not like Dave, the entrepreneur.
He must love what he does but my many loves are turning into occasional "spurts" anymore.
I see Dave's effort just a tiny bit short of something great. His valve is universal enough to work on a farm tractor. It would get better sales with several more makes of cars to use it on if it had the sales pitch of " A retrofitting, electronic, self regulating heater control valve" for your older Chevrolet's, Ford's and imports vehicles. J.C Whitney bound that "KIT" could be?
But I am just another one of those lazy people looking in and running off his mouth!
Money does not motivate me anymore. I am not the young man, I used to be! But I played the game well!
Thanks for thinking about me Art, it helps to feel connected.
I have Allstate, do you? (:)
Phil
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Phil, I'm still not sure you understand.
Dave is trying to help us (mostly 240 enthusiasts) solve a problem. When we run out of serviceable Ranco valves, all we have left is the cheaply made and unsatisfactory retrofit Volvo used in the last year(s).
If replacement is not the easiest job, the plastic Volvo or Scantech retrofit, with its hose kit, is worse. While we would all love to have the thermostatic valve Ranco used to make, meanwhile we need a replacement of some kind we can rely on to last a few years.
We should embrace any business recognizing this niche market and compete for it if necessary.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply be kind to others.
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Fascinating exchange! Not sure why, even with "notify" boxes checked, I sometimes get left out of such things.
Art, your support is appreciated. While I don't deny that this whole 240 parts thing has morphed into a business, you are correct: The first matter on the agenda is always that I'm looking for a solution for yours truly, and then if I can solve a problem for my fellow 240-philes, that's a bonus (in more than one way). I sincerely hope the stuff I make helps people keep their bricks on the road. Oh, and also one small snow tractor, which is running one of my heater valves.
I have no doubt that both you and Phil are very familiar with issues of amortization when it comes to production items. Most people are not. The heater valve was run in a single batch of only 100 pieces. There are two tools involved for the bracket. Nothing complex, but tooling is tooling. But wait, there's more! I'm not really making a point about recouping tooling costs here. I'm simply saying that when the quantity is 100, the item being made had better be pretty simple indeed. Yes it's possible to source all sorts of components from all sorts of other assemblies in an effort to make an up-to-date, state of the art part. The question is, will anyone pay for it? Similar experience being agonized over right now on the speedo boards.
In the case of the heater valve, I was advised more by history than anything else. I didn't own a car with anything other than a fully manual heater valve until I bought a 240 in 1988. As Phil states, we've been gating water through plain, manual valves for centuries without the need for anything more complex. Yes, the newer systems are more accurate, but at what cost? We are talking about an enthusiast community that looked at the $120 price for the snow caps and replied, more than once, "They were $40 new at the Volvo dealership".
But any banter about the valve is good banter. Thanks to all!
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A niche market?
What part of millions of cars made each year with heaters that have automatically controlled heat is a niche. Let not forget the ones in the past that are not 240's.
Mankind has controlled water flow since at least the Roman times, I think something a little more elaborate is laying about somewhere! Heck, they even put, bimetallic spring, thermostatic mixing valves in hotel supply water lines. It keeps those McDonald's coffee drinkers from burning themselves in the showers!
Heck, if we back up before the Ranco valves or the expanding bellows for some automatic control we could install a Chimpanzee under the dash. Might have to check with the Flintstones on that one!
Please do not get me wrong here, Dave is doing his thing and more power to him as he helps a lot of people. It was only just my opinion that I would have kicked it up a notch as it is not a niche market by any means unless we had a fewer makers of cars or almost all electric!
You and I can do the same thing. Scamtech and the modern Volvo are doing theirs but I am not buying. Life is about choices and there are about as many as there are kinds of people.
But I, I can either repair mine, buy his or lurk around hundreds of other junkyard cars with many more types of controls already perfected and snag one of those. That would be my thing because I am not one for being the entrepreneur selling a manual water valve.
It is just not for my car and besides, my wife can be under the dash until it leaks. Her arms are long enough, as I mentioned! (:) Good thing typing is silent!
Just the way I am today, tomorrow can be another day, a leak or not!
Phil
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Phil, we are talking about two different challenges. It seems you want to put the replacement of Volvo's heater valve into a much larger project to include offering retrofits for every old car people care to restore. Sorry, that isn't what I'm talking about here. I perceive this thread to be about solving a very specific 240 Volvo problem: what do we 240 owners do when we need to replace the valve.
When I say this is a 50-year old technology, I am not talking about the Roman aqueduct -- just about how cars regulate their heaters. Not about industrial hydronics, but mostly about Ranco's heater control valve specifically. And yes, this probably does go back more than 50 years, but I think they are out of that business because the carmakers have learned to leave the water flow alone and control the heat using air doors instead.
In the context of this thread, Dave is in a niche market. That's why he can't get Ranco interested. Sure, he might find opportunity to expand, but those parts will be different, or there would be a drop-in from another marque right now. The right angle.
I encourage you to try, though. Use your "I can do better" energy combined with the interest to spend the time, and actually come up with something. Life is, as you say, about choices. You have one that doesn't work, but isn't leaking yet and we still need to understand why, even with a dead thermostat, these things go so binary.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
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Hi art, want to chat some more, eh!
I will have to think more about making time to look at those old valves.
I admit there has not been a lot of motivation over the years to tinker with them.
My climate is very temperate for me and I can just leave the set where ever it was last. I can be anywhere in town in ten minutes. I can leave it half way and the time I travel a mile the engine is up to temperature.
Your point of air blending doors is well taken as I use the recirculate button or I open a window if its not raining. I live most year around in sweat shirts or a medium heavy jacket in our worse winter.
Consequently, the valve is not high on a priority list. I may have mentioned some of that in other postings in the far back past.
In the near future, I again will be away from home and at my sister-in laws home. I will be the care taker of four dogs and fix it man for a widow woman. This is in Southern California of which is not my favorite place to be!
My wife is setting up an USA nonprofit information organization with roots connected to a nonprofit located in the UK.
The wife and her sister travel here in the US and to Europe while going to medical conferences that is gaining recognition and her time.
I did enough traveling in my younger days and with all the travel hassles I just as soon let them go!
By the time they get done, with the first half of this years running around, it be coming closer to summer and that's when I want to stay home and be cooler.
So that is things go with married life and right after that, I have made less promises!
It is interesting that you mentioned industrial hydronic systems. I do, think like that, so you nailed me!
Europe uses that type of system quite a bit. They have better and tougher regulations in making their products. They are refined into simplicity. The Danfoss Company is quite popular to being as big as Ranco or crossed in with Honeywell. They are very compact valve units.
Danfoss started in the early forties and they may have invented the wax motor but I am not total sure of that. They have changed over to gas powered units by around the early nineties due to energy cry babies just like we have here.
Dave mention that Ranco could have used wax in this valve.
This is always a possibility but to my knowledge the wax motor is about thirty percent slower in response time than the refrigerant gas filled bellows that we have talked about. To my knowledge Ranco thermostats started out using the gas or Mercury in oven stats as the temperature of ovens exceed the operational range of gases.
So, i can only surmise at the time a group Volvo engineers picked up a Ranco reference book. It offered things better than they could get from European vendors. I have no proof what so ever, just a guess on my part as I have done it myself while shoving ideas around a table.
For those who are following us, its called R&D or research and development collaboration.
I had to make what they could just draw with a pencil and sometimes there has to be concessions considered in prototyping versus production schemes.
I am sure Dave has seen some of that arena!
Now that I got that out there I will add that EPA is probably eyeballing Ranco processes as much as the fluorescent bulbs going green. The push towards more LED's or electronic controls are forever on the move.
When we talk automotive, Dephi (a major automotive parts supplier) is now pushing brushless pumps for in-tank uses. They recognize the brush pumps faults but in reading they are highlighting its efficiency most.
I read some of their papers (about a year ago) and there is a gain of about two percent reduction of power usage or more if their design can vary the output as needed. Good talk, but they are taking DOE money for doing the research so it might be buzz words in there for them.
That paper would be right up your alley Art. The motor use a Nine pole versus Ten pole rotors and stators combination with a three phase motors likeness and using one coil as a EMF feedback circuit. Sounds like AC and DC tweaking for me, all at the same time.
I have noticed a push towards brushless in power tools and of course the price difference, guess where the fuel pumps are going. It's just progress, even if its two percent here and thirty percent from the wallet, dam the torpedoes, anyway!
So to end this up for Dave's interest the idea of a manual valve is the best and simplest for all on the brickboard as you said Art.
The ideas I have had are not researched out.
One could use the compact Danfoss angle valve with variable and lockable setting down there "AT" the valve. Nipples would have to be located or made in my case. It is "A"set it and forget it until summer time package, then, dial it back for A/C use. Or use a remote cap tube control and set it that way. Of course, as Dave said, for more bucks.
The other method would be use a 12 volt solenoid valve with a standard Ranco C12 cap tube thermostat w/ a 60 to 98 degree range.
Or a electronic thermostat with digital accuracy but I would for go the setback features! (:)
Again,I have not done the research or pricing but I think if one shopped well all may fall in Dave's price range.
Any gains to be worth "A" difference would be left up to the enthusiast to weigh out.
Throttling a valve, goes back as far as putting rocks in a stream and it works!
I know how enthused I would be and it took a man like Dave, to jump in there. He is the man too!
He said it fell that way like the seat cushions.
I watch to see if he goes for both halves. I think he is near Bakersfield? I could save shipping by hanging at my sister-in-laws too long!
Oh! Did I digress again....it's Ok, I was just doing my IMHO chit chat, as always! This is one nuisance that goes away like a T.V.......click!
Phil
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I found page that describes the Ranco valve rebuild, in 120 series.
http://www.sw-em.com/Heater_Control_Valve.htm
Somewhat like rolling the same heavy round rock uphill each day and smiling about it. If you want to keep your 122 original.
For the green verdigris 1992, it'll be David Samuels Wagonmeister soon.
Else, the 1990 leaks at the top seal and through the dash mount coolant sensor thread. It was horribly abused, yet it seems to be the most spirited. The Ranco valve under the dash I discovered today is a replacement.
Time to go coolant swimming. Tastes fine with a 7-Up spritz. (Ha!) (Should have gone to the blue coolant by now.) Can't stand coolant.
cheers,
dud.
--
Something, something, something, something ....
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